Harry Maguire | Signed

[DatIrishFella]

Famous quote: “There is no value in the market”. As if to show all players are priced higher than their real worth should be.

Lingard represents value to the club if they use him as a squad player. If we were to sell him, given the wages he is on, his market price might be close to £10m, so the club would need to buy a replacement player for £30-50m. To many of us fans, when we see how he plays, he is worth shit.

That's a load of bollox, pal. I'm certainly not Lingard's biggest fan, but he's a fantastic squad player to have. Plus he suits Ole's pressing game down to a tee.

 

[Stacks]

90 Mill is insane. There must be alternatives of a similar standard that would not rinse our transfer budget

 

[SATA]

I remember BBC saying there will be an alternative if we cannot agree a fee. I wonder who he will be?

 

[lysglimt]

3 time PL team of the year player - 8 major trophies at Chelsea.

Wouldn’t mind that sort of success...

And scorer of one of the best goals in P.L history

 

[nameischarles]

90 Mill is insane. There must be alternatives of a similar standard that would not rinse our transfer budget

Here lies the question, what has Ed been doing all summer? If Maguire is too much, then we should have moved on to other alternative targets by now.

 

[romufc]

I beg to differ. There are some businessmen who absolute mugs. Woodward has been taken to the cleaners many a time.

Agreed, he flourishes in the commercial side, but the amount he gains there, he wastes anyway when it comes to transfers, and contracts.

 

[romufc]

Do you even understand the difference between value and price? Do you understand the difference between the market and the individual?

Yes, but you also have to appreciate the following:

1. Leicester don't need to sell.
2. He is on a 4 Year Contract
3. English player tax (starting for country)
4. United desperation - Clubs know Untied can be taken as mugs in the window.
5. Using VVD as benchmark

 

[Redcy]

90 Mill is insane. There must be alternatives of a similar standard that would not rinse our transfer budget

I remember BBC saying there will be an alternative if we cannot agree a fee. I wonder who he will be?

The BBC know feck all, so it comes down to Maguire or "no value in the market", take your pick. Maguire seems likely to have been our 3rd or 4th choice.

 

[Redcy]

As has been discussed ad nauseum, the issue seems to have been we wanted a top class defender or a proven quantity. Any one else we could get cheaper (Konate, Tah, etc), are all considered young 50-60m gambles by the club presumably, or other players are too old, or we don't think improve us more than what we have (Dunk, etc).

 

[romufc]

The BBC know feck all, so it comes down to Maguire or "no value in the market", take your pick. Maguire seems likely to have been our 3rd or 4th choice.

How can you say Maguire is 3rd or 4th choice? it seems clear from May that Maguire been the option for United.

I bet you are going to mention De Ligt and Koulibaly.

 

[romufc]

As has been discussed ad nauseum, the issue seems to have been we wanted a top class defender or a proven quantity. Any one else we could get cheaper (Konate, Tah, etc), are all considered young 50-60m gambles by the club presumably, or other players are too old, or we don't think improve us more than what we have (Dunk, etc).

Agreed, we do not know if Konate, Tah, Ruben Dias would be considerably cheaper? Dias has a buyout clause of £60m but would you take a gamble on these players? give them a year to settle like Lindelof or Baily?

If the difference could be us getting champions league or not? surely paying extra £20m and we get champions league will offset that cost and he is proven in the PL.

 

[manunited1919]

That's a load of bollox, pal. I'm certainly not Lingard's biggest fan, but he's a fantastic squad player to have. Plus he suits Ole's pressing game down to a tee.

I said “to many of us fans”, I didn’t say to “all of us fans”. This isn’t a Lingard thread, I was just trying to show difference between value, price and worth.

 

[Casanova85]

I’d disagree slightly I think you’ve just shown the difference between worth and value in your post

Worth is how much the player is objectively priced at based on his quality or skill and value includes worth but then adds on how valuable he is to his current club and how valuable he is compared to similar players that have been sold.

I hope these technicalities are not the reason for the stalled negotiations between Ed and Leicester.

 

[Perseus]

I guess we'll see whether you are correct or not, but seems like a reasonable move to me and Brighton know that Leicester will have ~£80m burning a hole in their pocket and are now desperate, so the price increases to a very high level.

Paper talk always sounds better if a logic can be applied to it. However, second local Sussex journo is adamant that the story has no legs. No bid received and Dunk has not asked for a transfer or even hinted he wants to leave. But neither has Maguire. I don't think Leicester want Dunk so I wouldn't put a bet on Dunk leaving for Leicester especially because of the short odds. I daresay Dunk would fit in at defensive Leicester. But so would Tarkowski.

The cost of relegation makes £45 million seem irrelevant.

I would have thought both Maguire and Dunk are too slow to play for a top six side. Both now play the covering roles which calls for greater mobility. Both can play stopper centre-back if needed. Maguire is more of a leader for good and bad.

 

[DancingPanda]

I guess we are still talking. Because you know, we love talks.

Perhaps Woodward only wants a nice chat.

That's what I do with telemarketers sometimes, even when I'm not interested in a deal.

It gets lonely, you know

 

[Jcrossley94]

I hope these technicalities are not the reason for the stalled negotiations between Ed and Leicester.

Can you really put it past Ed?

 

[Casanova85]

Can you really put it past Ed?

JHC, just pay 70 million Euro + variables (PL title, EL champions, UCL semis 20-21, etc).

 

[Hammondo]

Yes, but you also have to appreciate the following:

1. Leicester don't need to sell.
2. He is on a 4 Year Contract
3. English player tax (starting for country)
4. United desperation - Clubs know Untied can be taken as mugs in the window.
5. Using VVD as benchmark

Yes so his value to Leicester is high because their value of money is not as important as having the player right now. 4 year contract increases his value to them, being English adds to his value.

So to them hes worth quite a bit more than normal, that's why they ask so much.

His value to us though, is debatable. Hes not amazing, and has clear weakness' as well as strengths. You can argue hes an upgrade on our current CB's but not by a massive margin. Also you got to not compare him to VVD, because thats not how it works, you compare it to what you could spend that money on. 80 million could get us a better player in another role (not many good CB's around at the moment).

Also if he doesn't do well, we cannot resell and gain back all that money, we will lose quite a bit.

 

[manunited1919]

Is Di Marzio saying Maguire is done? Title change needed here.

@davidmichael

 

[Redcy]

Yes so his value to Leicester is high because their value of money is not as important as having the player right now. 4 year contract increases his value to them, being English adds to his value.

So to them hes worth quite a bit more than normal, that's why they ask so much.

His value to us though, is debatable. Hes not amazing, and has clear weakness' as well as strengths. You can argue hes an upgrade on our current CB's but not by a massive margin. Also you got to not compare him to VVD, because thats not how it works, you compare it to what you could spend that money on. 80 million could get us a better player in another role (not many good CB's around at the moment).

Also if he doesn't do well, we cannot resell and gain back all that money, we will lose quite a bit.

I am starting to wonder if Ole has the view that if we can get a decent CB then we dont need a stronger CM. If we can relieve the pressure on the CM by having better defenders can we play with a Mctominay - Bruno - Pogba midfield

 

[Hammondo]

I am starting to wonder if Ole has the view that if we can get a decent CB then we dont need a stronger CM. If we can relieve the pressure on the CM by having better defenders can we play with a Mctominay - Bruno - Pogba midfield

Defence does not work like that. A defence without strong support from midfield is always flawed whomever you have as the CB's. I would much rather we spend it on a really good DM., matic clearly isnt close to good enough.

 

[romufc]

Yes so his value to Leicester is high because their value of money is not as important as having the player right now. 4 year contract increases his value to them, being English adds to his value.

So to them hes worth quite a bit more than normal, that's why they ask so much.

His value to us though, is debatable. Hes not amazing, and has clear weakness' as well as strengths. You can argue hes an upgrade on our current CB's but not by a massive margin. Also you got to not compare him to VVD, because thats not how it works, you compare it to what you could spend that money on. 80 million could get us a better player in another role (not many good CB's around at the moment).

Also if he doesn't do well, we cannot resell and gain back all that money, we will lose quite a bit.

Agreed, his value to us might be £40-60m. However, it looks like lack of planning has got us to a position where it seems to be Maguire or nothing. If that is the case, we need to pay the money because:-

1. Going into another season with Smalling, Jones Lindelof does not fill any fan with confidence. Jones cannot stay fit. We have not had a settled back 4 in a while
2. He could form a partnership with lindelof.
3. He plays LCB, currently only Rojo can play there and I defo do not want to see him start.
4. We have a lack of players who can head a ball from corners into our box, Maguire will attack the ball.
5. He knows the PL.

Although he may have glaring weaknesses which have been covered up, the media has hyped him up so much that some people don't realise that he isn't a world beater.

Could he be the difference with us conceding 10 or so goals less?

 

[manunited1919]

Defence does not work like that. A defence without strong support from midfield is always flawed whomever you have as the CB's. I would much rather we spend it on a really good DM., matic clearly isnt close to good enough.

I agree. This is why I’m not too excited about Maguire, would rather us fix the DM this summer, and go for CB next summer. But we have we been seriously linked to any CDM?

 

[Moonwalker]

Agreed, his value to us might be £40-60m. However, it looks like lack of planning has got us to a position where it seems to be Maguire or nothing. If that is the case, we need to pay the money because:-

1. Going into another season with Smalling, Jones Lindelof does not fill any fan with confidence. Jones cannot stay fit. We have not had a settled back 4 in a while
2. He could form a partnership with lindelof.
3. He plays LCB, currently only Rojo can play there and I defo do not want to see him start.
4. We have a lack of players who can head a ball from corners into our box, Maguire will attack the ball.
5. He knows the PL.

Although he may have glaring weaknesses which have been covered up, the media has hyped him up so much that some people don't realise that he isn't a world beater.

Could he be the difference with us conceding 10 or so goals less?

No, out of the box, please.

 

[EireRed_GS]

Agreed, his value to us might be £40-60m. However, it looks like lack of planning has got us to a position where it seems to be Maguire or nothing. If that is the case, we need to pay the money because:-

1. Going into another season with Smalling, Jones Lindelof does not fill any fan with confidence. Jones cannot stay fit. We have not had a settled back 4 in a while
2. He could form a partnership with lindelof.
3. He plays LCB, currently only Rojo can play there and I defo do not want to see him start.
4. We have a lack of players who can head a ball from corners into our box, Maguire will attack the ball.
5. He knows the PL.

Although he may have glaring weaknesses which have been covered up, the media has hyped him up so much that some people don't realise that he isn't a world beater.

Could he be the difference with us conceding 10 or so goals less?

I called this in the summer. That Woodward would focus on one particular player for a position we really really need (RW/CB) , and piss about with the negotiations right until the last minute while working on nothing else. And at this point, way too late to start chasing any other alternatives. He will have no other option but to go balls deep into the deal and pay whatever the club & player are asking. Then prob think he's an absolute hero

 

[stevoc]

So what would you say the going rate is ? £75m?

With regards of the definition of the term market rate, as in the usual price paid for something in recent history, in this case for top defenders.

https://talksport.com/football/518899/top-10-most-expensive-defenders-world-football/

Then i'd say somewhere around £50-60m is the going market rate for a top defender right now when you look at the 10 most expensive defenders in history with all these moves happening in the last 5 years.

Leicester have the right to ask for whatever they want though regardless of Maguires actual worth.

 

[Jcrossley94]

With regards of the definition of the term market rate, as in the usual price paid for something in recent history, in this case for top defenders.

https://talksport.com/football/518899/top-10-most-expensive-defenders-world-football/

Then i'd say somewhere around £50-60m is the going market rate for a top defender right now when you look at the 10 most expensive defenders in history with all these moves happening in the last 5 years.

Leicester have the right to ask for whatever they want though regardless of Maguires actual worth.

You think the market we’re in is remotely the same as the one where Luiz cost chelsea £50m?

No, it’s totally different... hence why Liverpool had to pay £75m for a CB from Southampton and we just had to fork out £50m for a 21 y.o RB

 

[ash_86]

Brighton have bid £25m for Bristol City defender Adam Webster. They will sell Dunk for 40-45m to Leicester and Maguire will finally complete his move to United. Watch the dominoes roll!!

 

[Alemar]

Brighton have bid £25m for Bristol City defender Adam Webster.

Brighton would never have bid such a big amount (for them) if funds were not to come to their pockets very soon, not for Adam Webster at least. Hence definitely everything is agreed upon - as it shall start with Brighton buying, then by Leicester and finally by us.

 

[ash_86]

Brighton would never have bid such a big amount (for them) if funds were not to come to their pockets very soon, not for Adam Webster at least. Hence definitely everything is agreed upon - as it shall start with Brighton buying, then by Leicester and finally by us.

Yup, certainly. PL clubs like to sign a replacement these days before they get the cash in hand to prevent exorbitant fees.

 

[stevoc]

You think the market we’re in is remotely the same as the one where Luiz cost chelsea £50m?

No, it’s totally different... hence why Liverpool had to pay £75m for a CB from Southampton and we just had to fork out £50m for a 21 y.o RB

Where exactly did i say that mate?

You are being a bit disingenuous to pick out the only transfer on that list that didn't happen in the last 2 years.

You mentioning that we just paid £50m for Wan Bissaka which only reinforces my estimation of £50-60m.

Lucas Hernandez and DeLigt both cost around the mid 60's this summer, Mendy, Laporte, Stones, Walker and AWB all went for between £50-60m in the last 3 summer windows. Van Dijk is the outlier at £75m but one transfer doesn't set the market rate for all other defenders. Neymar cost £200m by your logic that would now be the going market rate for all top forwards. But in the real world it doesn't work like that.

 

[AneRu]

Defence does not work like that. A defence without strong support from midfield is always flawed whomever you have as the CB's. I would much rather we spend it on a really good DM., matic clearly isnt close to good enough.

Right on, its more important to ensure that Matic and Fred are a far away from starting matches for United in the PL as possible. Without Herrera I think Matic and Fred will let us down much more than Smalling and Jones will. Its scary that the management doesn't seem like they have recognized that Matic is done at the level we wish to compete at. This blind spot will hurt us more than missing out on Maguire, imo.

 

[Perseus]

Brighton would never have bid such a big amount (for them) if funds were not to come to their pockets very soon, not for Adam Webster at least. Hence definitely everything is agreed upon - as it shall start with Brighton buying, then by Leicester and finally by us.

Good analysis at https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport...istol-city-newcastle-webster-brighton-3151941

No signs that Dunk is ready to move from Brighton though (the opposite), but things can change. BHA still need a right back to replace Bruno.

 

[sunama]

I honestly couldn't care anymore regarding United and their joke transfer dealings.. Its dragging out far too much and became a farce long ago.. Im tired of hearing literally the same shit every day with absolutely nothing happening. All should have been wrapped up a long time ago..

There are 9 days left until the window shuts. Woodward and whatever other monkeys he has doing these dealing have shown me nothing that says to me they will sign even one more player in this timeframe... Jobsworths the lot of them.

And it just means Ole is stuck with the same charlatans he finished with last season. Woodward's scapegoat its looking like he's being stitched up as.

That's pretty much what I said last season.
I was shot down by people on this forum for saying that the only player we were were getting was Fred (as well as a youth player and 3rd choice GK). They were convinced that we were buying more players and that we could not possibly buy just one first team player.

Then when the window shut, they started blaming it on Jose, even though it was obvious that Woodward was saving money. Those same fans will do the same thing this Summer, but at no point will they learn from their mistakes. They'll keep trusting Woodward.

It's like your wife who keeps sleeping around with other men and everytime you say, "she won't do that again." and then she goes and does the exact same thing again.

On a separate point: I don't believe that Maguire is good enough to improve us, but time will tell (if we do get him).

 

[romufc]

Neymar cost £200m by your logic that would now be the going market rate for all top forwards. But in the real world it doesn't work like that.

To clarify, the Neymar deal was not a value set by the market, he had a release clause which clubs generally set higher and PSG decided to activate it. I am sure if he didnt have a release clause, Barca would be asking for more.

A good example to use is Coutinho.

 

[Cédric Sophie]

According to Di Marzio fee agreed yesterday.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Shouldn't the thread title be "no longer has the shits" unless the mod who changed the title is referring to themselves no longer having the shits?

 

[mu4c_20le]

90 Mill is insane. There must be alternatives of a similar standard that would not rinse our transfer budget

If after all this delaying it comes out to even more than previously reported, im done

 

[ChaddyP]

Shouldn't the thread title be "no longer has the shits" unless the mod who changed the title is referring to themselves no longer having the shits?

Its been eating me up on the inside every time I read it.

 

[Gopher Brown]

JHC, just pay 70 million Euro + variables (PL title, EL champions, UCL semis 20-21, etc).

Leicester want £80-90m? Not sure what your point is.