Harry Maguire | Signed

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ScarleyUtd said:
It's Utd (there will always be a premium), he's English, he's proven in the Prem, he's 26 and an international – he'd never go for £50 million.
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I said If he was not he should be.

Sure there will always be premium for United but 80 mil for a good player is beyond stupid, even in this market and as I said for that money you expect a WC talent not a good player.

ScarleyUtd said:
Well there you go. This is pretty much exactly the same thread as when VVD was on the move.
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Big difference in quality between VVD and Maguire.
 
AJ10 said:
I said If he was not he should be.

Sure there will always be premium for United but 80 mil for a good player is beyond stupid, even in this market and as I said for that money you expect a WC talent not a good player.



Big difference in quality between VVD and Maguire.
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Not according to many at the time. It's the same I tell you! :boring:
 
roonster09 said:
Which season.
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I am referring to the 2017-2018 season. Maguire was already at Leicester. They ended 16th place in terms of goals conceded as opposed to Southampton's 11th place.
 
devilish said:
I am referring to the 2017-2018 season. Maguire was already at Leicester. They ended 16th place in terms of goals conceded as opposed to Southampton's 11th place.
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VVD only played half a season and in that he missed around 8 games. So he played 10 games that season for Southampton. In that half season Southampton conceded 30 goals and Leicester 32 goals.
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah same with that Robertson lad.
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I think Robertson is an attacking wingback though. Maguire is a CB and a greaaaaaaat leader at the back. Hull conceded 80 goals that season btw, a looping 10 more goals than Swansea. Then Maguire moved to Leicester and they dropped from 14th place to 16th place in terms of goals conceded.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This argument has been debunked many times on here. There was a list of top defenders that played in awful defences before they got their big transfer and it included some of the biggest names in the game. Think Skinrar was on there too.
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Umtiti. Lyon had an awful defense, he and Lopes were the only reason they didn't concede a hundred goals.
 
Maguire is a beast physically, English and looks decent on the ball, and that is where most of the hype comes from. As a defender, he is grossly flawed. He is slow, sluggish and lacks agility. He is prone to lapses in concentration, susceptible turn of pace, and many times, takes ages to react to dangerous situations. He is a decent defender, but not one that is worthy of breaking the bank for.
 
devilish said:
I think Robertson is an attacking wingback though. Maguire is a CB and a greaaaaaaat leader at the back. Hull conceded 80 goals that season btw, a looping 10 more goals than Swansea.
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He was playing for relegated team and IIRC they were shambles that season when they didnt have players to fill the squad.
 
dove said:
Agree. But not someone who costs twice the amount he should only because he is English.
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So you think he's worth £40 million? Lindelof cost around £30 million by way of comparison.

The English factor is also a fairly big factor. Look at many of the title winning sides over the last 20 or 30 years. How many have had at least one English central defender? And usually more.
 
ScarleyUtd said:
He is now – and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

£75m for VVD before Liverpool signed him was crazy money apparently for many on here.

People are casting doubt about someone who is a highly rated player and has been for some time. Why do you think Pep is in for him?

And here we go again.
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you think Maguire has similar quality to Van Dijk?
 
roonster09 said:
He was playing for relegated team and IIRC they were shambles that season when they didnt have players to fill the squad.
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But he's a leader at the back right? Surely a defence lead by a great leader + defender shouldn't be conceded 80 goals. Then he moved to Leicester and they went from having the 14th worst defence in the EPL to having the 16th worst defence in the premier league. TBF things had improved this season. They are at 7th place, at par with mighty Newcastle and with a worse defence to the likes of Wolves and Everton.
 
buckooo1978 said:
you think Maguire has similar quality to Van Dijk?
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I'm saying a lot of the caf were saying £75 million was stupid money for a Southampton defender. Real Groundhog Day stuff here.

Are you saying Pep doesn't know a great defender when he sees one?
 
ScarleyUtd said:
Not according to many at the time. It's the same I tell you! :boring:
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They can have their opinions but for me VVD was miles better than Maguire. 75 mil was ridiculous fee for him but he was actually better than Maguire at everything. Just because it worked for pool doesn't justify spending that amount on a lesser player, He would improve us (we're shit so even Evans would improve us) but won't even be close to vvd level.
 
ScarleyUtd said:
I'm saying a lot of the caf were saying £75 million was stupid money for a Southampton defender. Real Groundhog Day stuff here.

Are you saying Pep doesn't know a great defender when he sees one?
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Pep paid £50m for Stones.
 
ScarleyUtd said:
So you think he's worth £40 million? Lindelof cost around £30 million by way of comparison.

The English factor is also a fairly big factor. Look at many of the title winning sides over the last 20 or 30 years. How many have had at least one English central defender? And usually more.
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I think he is worth around £50m. Paying anything over £80m is just madness.

The bolded part reminds me of people saying you need to have an English core to win the league when we all know it's nonsense, City won 198 points in 2 seasons without barely any English player in the team. I agree that we should buy the best English players though but Maguire isn't the one.
 
AJ10 said:
They can have their opinions but for me VVD was miles better than Maguire. 75 mil was ridiculous fee for him but he was actually better than Maguire at everything. Just because it worked for pool doesn't justify spending that amount on a lesser player, He would improve us (we're shit so even Evans would improve us) but won't even be close to vvd level.
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He was and is a way better defender to Maguire. The latter sound like the typical British 80s defender/bruiser with the difference he can distribute the ball better. He's tough, he's good in air but he's also very slow and not particularly bright. You find defenders like him on the continent for far less then 80m.
 
ScarleyUtd said:
Exactly what was said about VVD on this forum....
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Maguire is not VVD. Nor will get near that level. And I like him by the way.

duffer said:
Just get the deals done. Who cares if you pay more than other clubs? You can afford it and then some.
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I kind of agree with you, it makes no difference to me how much United spend but there has to be a point where you say enough is enough. Just because there is money to spend doesn’t mean it should be spent on average players or an extortionate amount on someone who has potential.
 
AJ10 said:
They can have their opinions but for me VVD was miles better than Maguire. 75 mil was ridiculous fee for him but he was actually better than Maguire at everything. Just because it worked for pool doesn't justify spending that amount on a lesser player, He would improve us (we're shit so even Evans would improve us) but won't even be close to vvd level.
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Did you honestly think that when he was at Southampton? I'm just saying there are many parallels here.
 
ScarleyUtd said:
Did you honestly think that when he was at Southampton? I'm just saying there are many parallels here.
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There are no parallels that involves football. While I thought that 75m was an awful of money, VVD was actually a dominant player week in week out while Maguire isn't, he is a good player like many other players in the league. For me it's a bit like spending a record fee on a prime Koscielny, there is a reason why no one did that.
 
JPRouve said:
There are no parallels that involves football. While I thought that 75m was an awful of money, VVD was actually a dominant player week in week out while Maguire isn't, he is a good player like many other players in the league. For me it's a bit like spending a record fee on a prime Koscielny, there is a reason why no one did that.
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I think that if Maguire was some Spanish dude playing for Sevilla then 3/4 of his supporters wouldn't want him.
 
ScarleyUtd said:
Did you honestly think that when he was at Southampton? I'm just saying there are many parallels here.
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Van Dijk at Southampton was a better defender than Maguire has ever been. £75m seemed like a ridiculous price for him back then, but £80m for Maguire would be twice more ridiculous.
 
devilish said:
I think that if Maguire was some Spanish dude playing for Sevilla then 3/4 of his supporters wouldn't want him.
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Which reminds me that he is a sort of Raul Albiol, clearly good enough for a good team but not good enough to warrant a big fee or to be a perennial starter. No one was shocked when Madrid purchased him, no one was shocked when they sold him either and then he did well at Napoli.
 
dove said:
I think he is worth around £50m. Paying anything over £80m is just madness.

The bolded part reminds me of people saying you need to have an English core to win the league when we all know it's nonsense, City won 198 points in 2 seasons without barely any English player in the team. I agree that we should buy the best English players though but Maguire isn't the one.
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The problem with Maguire is that you'll have to bring in CBs who complement him. Lindelof-Maguire would probably not work as they are both slow. Smalling is rapid but we'll be relying on the very player we would want to replace (since he can't pass the ball) with no benefits whatsoever (Maguire bring aerial prowess and physicality same as Smalling does).

Which makes you wonder. Is it worth spending 80m for a defender whose got clear weaknesses to his game?
 
ScarleyUtd said:
Did you honestly think that when he was at Southampton? I'm just saying there are many parallels here.
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Yes.

Individually he was miles better than Maguire, it still didn't mean he was worth 75 mil but pool payed that amount for a much, much better player than Maguire and us paying 80 mil for maguire is even more ridiculous considering he's not better than vvd at Southampton. If he was better than vvd at Southampton then I would have no problem.

I am not saying he is a bad player but there is a big difference in quality between vvd (Southampton) and maguire IMO.
 
JPRouve said:
Which reminds me that he is a sort of Raul Albiol, clearly good enough for a good team but not good enough to warrant a big fee or to be a perennial starter. No one was shocked when Madrid purchased him, no one was shocked when they sold him either and then he did well at Napoli.
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TBF nationality bias is common everywhere. Take Rugani as an example. The Italians fans are slowly starting to realise that he's not that great after all. Having said that, Id expect that a club with 50 scouts+ to be able to unearth better options then Maguire for 80m especially since our defense had been screaming for a top CB ever since Rio and Vidic left
 
I actually think Maguire for £50ish million is about right and to partner Smalling would work well. With smalling you know what you get. A good defender, but not great when expected to create from the back. He doesn't play out at all, it's not his game.

But we need to find someone to partner Lindelof. He's the one that showed some quality and progression. He could get better and better for us. Is Maguire that guy? Maybe. Bur I do think he's being underrated on here. Hes brilliant in the air, something that we have been susceptible to when defending set pieces.

If we were to get rid of Rojo and Jones and bring in Maguire and Tuenzebe, I could see that being a good mix of defenders.
 
Suvvernmanc said:
I actually think Maguire for £50ish million is about right and to partner Smalling would work well. With smalling you know what you get. A good defender, but not great when expected to create from the back. He doesn't play out at all, it's not his game.

But we need to find someone to partner Lindelof. He's the one that showed some quality and progression. He could get better and better for us. Is Maguire that guy? Maybe. Bur I do think he's being underrated on here. Hes brilliant in the air, something that we have been susceptible to when defending set pieces.

If we were to get rid of Rojo and Jones and bring in Maguire and Tuenzebe, I could see that being a good mix of defenders.
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Would it be the case?

Maguire's main skills are its physicality and its distribution of the ball. Smalling kind of provides the former. If we're only need the latter then we might as well keep on relying on Lindelof.
 
ScarleyUtd said:
I'm saying a lot of the caf were saying £75 million was stupid money for a Southampton defender. Real Groundhog Day stuff here.

Are you saying Pep doesn't know a great defender when he sees one?
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yes but my point was in spite of this view (not sure how widespread it was) there is clearly a difference in quality between Maguire and VVD

How do you know Pep is in for him? are you claiming to be an ITK?

and on Peps record it's hardly flawless - he spent big on Stones (watch Highlights vrs the Netherlands lol) who hasn't been a success. Mendy has had issues with attitude, form and injury - youd hardly call him a success. Walker has been grand for 50m but not as effective as someone like Robertson who cost 8m. Laporte has probably been his best defensive signing and he cost 20/30m less than what Maguire is reportedly going for

where does this reputation for signing great defenders come from then? or is that a bit of fantasy perhaps?
 
devilish said:
Would it be the case?

Maguire's main skills are its physicality and its distribution of the ball. Smalling kind of provides the former. If we're only need the latter then we might as well keep on relying on Lindelof.
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We need another defender that is for sure. Reliying on Jones and Rojo is my point about lack of quality in depth. Getting Maguire in to share the CB positions with smalling and Lindelof would be fine in my opinion. But only if he comes in for a decent fee!

I would be fine with spending £100m on MDL or £80m on Koulibaly but not £80m on Maguire, hence me saying £50m being about right for Maguire
 
Suvvernmanc said:
We need another defender that is for sure. Reliying on Jones and Rojo is my point about lack of quality in depth. Getting Maguire in to share the CB positions with smalling and Lindelof would be fine in my opinion. But only if he comes in for a decent fee!

I would be fine with spending £100m on MDL or £80m on Koulibaly but not £80m on Maguire, hence me saying £50m being about right for Maguire
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If we bring in a truly world class CB then I think we can get away with just 1 CB. Koulibaly for example provides the pace, the air dominance and physicality that Lindelof needs to shine, he provides the quality and leadership that the chuckle brothers need to do well and he provides the experience Tuanzebe would need to progress to the next level. However if we can't sign Koulibaly then maybe we should get 2 CBs. Toby at 25m would provide experience, leadership and quality at the back while Joachim Andersen would provide aerial dominance and decent distribution of the ball that Maguire would provide at a cheaper fee. Their combined fee would be similar to the one we spend for Maguire with the difference that risks are spread out on two players + it would also allow us to sell 1-2 CBs.
 
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