This. So ridiculous.
Harry Maguire | Signed
- Thread starter davidmichael
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This. So ridiculous.
Yet we are told he's this great CB whose also a magnificent leader. The stats suggest otherwise.
We should just include a big top 4 bonus offer in the deal. If we get top 4 this season and have to lump another 10- 15m to Leicester then so be it. 65m plus 10m if we get top 4 this season plus 5 m after 50 league appearances. Leicester would be mad to reject, we'd be a bit mad to offer but if its what solskjaer says he wants we should make it happen
Though maybe we can't make that sort of incentive to a team in same league?
Though maybe we can't make that sort of incentive to a team in same league?
Great leader is about organise the defense not about covering others mistakes. What great leader can do to avoid goals being conceded if the other player gave the ball away easily in dangerous position?
Actually its both. A great leader organise a defence and he also knows the defenders around him enough to be able to anticipate the mistakes. Take our defence prior and after us signing Rio Ferdinand. The difference was striking as much as it was striking when he got suspended. There again, Rio had the pace to do that. Maguire is far too slow for that
You call mistakes, and I have seen Maguire anticipate other mistakes. But what I was asking is mistake in dangerous position, which something can’t be avoided anymore.
Besides, You can’t expect 3 players making mistake and hoping one guy to cover 3 players.
Being slow isn’t the issue here. Hummels is very slow.
That's kind of a strange thing to say considering that we just bought a speed merchant.
Pace was already an issue at a time when Dolly-Daisy used to play. In fact they would later on confess how Romario-Stoichkov pace ruined them. Things are even worse today with football shifting away from the slow and physical game to a pacier and more technical one.
Nothing is strange for a slow centre back.
You look at Bailly & Smalling, centre back with pace and compare them to prime Hummels who is considered very slow, pretty sure we can agree which one we would rather have.
Lack of pace is certainly a weakness that need to be countered for. Which makes me wonder if its worth to spend 80m on a defender whose a 'leader' of a leaking defence, whose major skill (ie aerial prowess) we've already got thanks to Smalling and whose slow like Lindelof is (whose our best CB).
I hate to repeat this again especially that you keep avoiding my points. Lack of pace means nothing like Hummels & Maguire, the player know how to anticipate their own weakness with good positioning. Can’t blame a team performance based on others individuals mistakes, can’t expect one man to cover 3 players job.
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It does mean alot for the defence as they have to cater for it. Unless of course, its Leicester who tend to leak as many goals as the Titanic leaks water.
Positioning can carry you up to an extent. I've seen Maldini having an absolute nightmare against Kanchelskis and we're talking about a world class defender here. So yes pace does matter.
Despite of Vardy scored 20 league goals last year & the team conceded lot of goals he was voted as their best player by the fans and the players in 17/18, they still think he was performing the best one. It shows that goals conceded shouldn’t be used to judge individual performance.
Why are you arguing with someone who is actually trying to blame Maguire for England v Netherlands?
One goal was a corner where Stones got bullied and Maguire was marking VVD as instructed by his manager, the other goal was the worst piece of defending I’ve seen in like forever, Maldini, Beckenbauer, Ferdinand couldn’t have done feck all about that from John Stones
After that ridiculous post, devilish is best ignored on this subject, save your time for better debates.
Why are you arguing with someone who is actually trying to blame Maguire for England v Netherlands?
One goal was a corner where Stones got bullied and Maguire was marking VVD as instructed by his manager, the other goal was the worst piece of defending I’ve seen in like forever, Maldini, Beckenbauer, Ferdinand couldn’t have done feck all about that from John Stones
After that ridiculous post, devilish is best ignored on this subject, save your time for better debates.
Well, that’s mad.This thing of comparing players and the prices they should cost annoys me here.
IF you really want a player you will have to pay the price.
We want Wan Bissaka and Maguire
Let's pay the price and stop pussy footing around.
We expect Inter to pay the price we want for Lukaku.
We expect Real to pay the price we want for Pogba.
IF you really want a player you will have to pay the price.
We want Wan Bissaka and Maguire
Let's pay the price and stop pussy footing around.
We expect Inter to pay the price we want for Lukaku.
We expect Real to pay the price we want for Pogba.
Why are you arguing with someone who is actually trying to blame Maguire for England v Netherlands?
One goal was a corner where Stones got bullied and Maguire was marking VVD as instructed by his manager, the other goal was the worst piece of defending I’ve seen in like forever, Maldini, Beckenbauer, Ferdinand couldn’t have done feck all about that from John Stones
After that ridiculous post, devilish is best ignored on this subject, save your time for better debates.
I think you've forgotten the torrid time when we had Mickey, Blanc and Wes as CBs. Rio's signing took us to the next level and improved all the players around him as well. His suspension was highlighted as the main reason why we had a sup par season that year as well.
A leader/top defender is not only good himself but makes the defence look better. There's nothing wrong in being concerned that this rumoured 80m rated CB is part of a defence that leaks alot of goals.
After Luke Shaw was awarded as our best player of the year in a season were our midfielder topped the assist and scoring chart, I learnt to take these awards with a pinch of salt. There again there's no point arguing with a fanboy.
Why shouldn’t he be over Rashford & Pogba? Again you are ignoring a few of my statement, neither score 20 league goals like Vardy. If Rashford scores 20 league goals this season, he would have been nominated as our best player of the season over Shaw.
Pogba was our main assist man and goal scorer. That came all from midfield in a dysfunctional team that lack quality. He was certainly way better then Shaw was which explains why the likes of Real and Juventus would want Pogba for big money not Shaw.
Pointless arguing with the FIFA generation who think pace is everything and stats are more important than actually watching the games with their own eyes mate.
What's the opposite of a fanboy? Hmmm....
Real & Juve wants Pogba because he’s top quality player not because he had great season. I don’t see anything so special of what Pogba did especially considered he scored lot of penalty. If it’s so special then both Juve & Real shouldn’t be afraid of paying our demand.
Vardy on the other hand scored 20 league goals, something more special to me. And Maguire still nominated as the best one.
Im quite old btw.
I think its a matter of both. Pogba is a top quality player and he also had a great season considering the circumstances we've faced. Shaw is considered as a top quality player too by some people in here as well. Yet Pogba is the player top clubs want not him.
I believe the argument has run it course. I certainly feel that I made my point. Some might think that spending 80m on a leader/CB whose part of a defence that leaks so many goals is worth it simply because he has beaten that world class article of a player in a popularity contest/award. I do have some concerns about that.
If we do sign him up I hope that you're proven right. If he ends up at Shitty then I hope Im proven right.
Think Shaw got the vote because of coming back from that very bad injury, imo.
Maguire had a poor season. His positional play is one of the worst I've seen from a defender. He's really not worth 80mil.
Zidane was always interested in signing Pogba since he was at Juve, so stop act like Pogba did something special this season.
Your point is lazy and you can’t even counter what I said and instead you are ignoring them and going circle like clockwise instead of keep moving forward.
- Pace isn’t always important, there are centre back out there with lack of pace and still top centre back because they know how to anticipate their weakness with good positioning. Hummels is one of the most recent example.
- You can’t judge individual performance based on team performance & other players mistakes.
- You can’t expect a single player to cover 3 players.
- Let’s be real, if Rashford scored 20 league goals like Vardy did in 17/18, he would have won the player of the season. Pogba’s contribution is nothing special compare to that.
Not in Leicester fans & players view. They thought of him had great season in 17/18 season and he was nominated player of the season over Vardy who scored 20 league goals.
That was in 17/18 season. We're talking about 18/19 season.
There’s a difference between Maguire having a poor season and having some of the poorest positional play in the league. Were the latter actually the case, it wouldn’t have been any different the season before and if it was the same the season before, he wouldn’t have been acknowledged as the best player that year by his teammates.
https://portugoal.net/portuguese-ab...ereira-lands-double-player-of-the-year-awards
Ricardo Pereira was Leicester player of the year. Not the 80m rated defender.
Haven’t forgotten at all, you seem to have forgotten Laurent Blanc if anything.
Whilst none as are good as Rio (VVD included), I feel de Ligt, Koulibally or Maguire would make a massive difference for United.
Id wish I can forget Laurent Blanc's time at United. Unfortunately I am not that lucky.
I agree on the former two. I am not sure about the latter though.
You replied to my post that talking about 17/18 season.
So what?
Maguire was Leicester player of the year in 17/18 when Vardy scored 20 league goals. And again you keep ignoring my point, my point was you can’t judge player based on that conceded goals.
And that’s why I used 17/18 as good example to tell you that despite of conceded lot of goals in that season being -4 goals difference he still rated higher than Vardy who scored 20 league goals.
Having a goalkeeper who communicates with his defence and not having a greater fear of crosses than Count Dracula would also help. This is why Van Der Sar will always be a greater keeper than De Gea. Now, I'm sure someone will come in and say that he had a better defence in front of him, but please consider the role he played in ensuring that.
I know that we live in an age where slogans and style seem to matter more than substance, but the devil is always in the details, so please read beyond headlines.
With that being said, Rio Ferdinand only began performing consistently after Edwin joined in 2005. Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra arrived 6 months after him in January 2006. Vida took a good 6 months to settle in while Evra didn't become undisputed first choice LB until the start of the Champions League winning season (Gabriel Heinze ended the previous season starting in the FA Cup final).
Edwin, Rio, Vidic and Evra were the bedrock of that era. Its why we were still able to win 2 League titles after Ronaldo's departure and neglecting the midfield. Well, that and Sir Alex.
I'd be happy to see De Gea and Pogba leave this summer only if the same actions following CR7s departure are not taken. If they are, then it's a case of selling the engine to pay off the debt on your car and then adding gold paint to it so that you're able to flog it off for a pretty penny.
I know that we live in an age where slogans and style seem to matter more than substance, but the devil is always in the details, so please read beyond headlines.
With that being said, Rio Ferdinand only began performing consistently after Edwin joined in 2005. Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra arrived 6 months after him in January 2006. Vida took a good 6 months to settle in while Evra didn't become undisputed first choice LB until the start of the Champions League winning season (Gabriel Heinze ended the previous season starting in the FA Cup final).
Edwin, Rio, Vidic and Evra were the bedrock of that era. Its why we were still able to win 2 League titles after Ronaldo's departure and neglecting the midfield. Well, that and Sir Alex.
I'd be happy to see De Gea and Pogba leave this summer only if the same actions following CR7s departure are not taken. If they are, then it's a case of selling the engine to pay off the debt on your car and then adding gold paint to it so that you're able to flog it off for a pretty penny.
I just don't see the defensive quality, unless we plan to defend the box and play a pure counter attacking game with pace and quick transitions. Higher up the pitch he is regularly exposed, not just pace and agility, but awareness of danger, reading of runs, recovery. I don't see the leadership ability either, when watching Leicester it often appeared to me that Morgan or Evans was the one doing the majority of the communication/organization. The continued poor defensive performances of his teams have to be considered as well, not just club level but look how shambolic England look at the back against quality in pressure games.
Lovely footballer but some people are really in for a shock with him defensively.
Lovely footballer but some people are really in for a shock with him defensively.
He’s not 85m better than Smalling or Jones, the club is bonkers, focus on other targets.
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