[Rojofiam]

1. Yes he barely played 22/23, and we conceded 'only' 43 goals, our best record since Maguire's first season at 36 goals conceded. Allowing Martinez and Varane to forge a partnership and keeping Maguire out in turn helped the team keep goals out.

In 23/24 he played 1651 minutes, more than twice his 22/23 minutes, and with Martinez out for a long injury spell Maguire was asked to step in and we conceded our most goals on record in the PL. He's literally prominently involved when our records are at their worst.

2. We all know this, and Maguire's presence exacerbated things as we know he's not suited to a high line no matter how its set up. Varane and Martinez in the little time they had made for our most conducive CB partnership under ETH

3. Our defensive organisation wasn't much better under Solskjaer. We also progressively became worse defensively under his charge. It coincides with his signing of Maguire up until his final disaster of a season

4. Solskjaer spent 400M at united and that included what was then seen as more than decent defensive additions in Varane, AWB and Telles. Maguire was and still is the most expensive CB in world football. Are you telling me a return of 36 and 44 goals conceded in seasons without a crisis as you say reflects serious improvement over Mourinhos first two equally zero crisis seasons where we conceded much less? We set a standard prior that haven't reached again since.

Again, Maguire played 1651 minutes in 23/24, 18 full league matches, which is a decent chunk. He stepped in for Martinez and didn't help maintain the standard of the season prior where we only conceded 43 with him getting the least minutes of his united career thus far. We ended the 23/24 season with the worst defensive record of our PL era.

How are you not connecting the dots? We improved without him and we got our worst record the season after, with his minutes more than doubling and Martinez who massively improved our defense being out. Speak of an agenda.

Maguire did it in a high line for 2 seasons after he arrived. 36 goals conceded in 38 games in 19/20, as he played in every single league game, and then in 20/21 he conceded 36 in 34. We conceded 8 in the 4 matches he didn't play in.

In 2022/23, when Varane-Martínez became our first choice pairing, and played most of the games together, we had the 6th lowest line in the entire league. Maguire and Lindelöf formed the 6th and 4th highest lines in the league in 19/20 and then 20/21.

19/20 Def. Line height 45.07 (6th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.14)
20/21 Def. Line height 46.16 (4th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.97)

22/23 Def. Line height 42.92 (14th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.65)
23/24 Def. Line height 43.54 (15th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.75)

"Maguire's presence exacerbated things" Sorry but I cannot take your arguments seriously after this line here. I've just provided you with plenty of evidence that says Maguire is more than suited to a high line, and yet you just keep parroting the same things over and over again.

Maguire excelling in a high line for two seasons straight, and then being dropped under a manager that then goes on to play one of the deepest defensive lines in the whole league for two seasons straight, equals Maguire not suited for a high line to you?

You put a lot of the blame on him for our defensive record being shit under ETH, when he was 3rd choice CB at best, sometimes even 4th behind Lindelöf in 22/23 as well.

Here's Maguire's PL record for United btw

https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/harry-maguire-manchester-united-goals-conceded

1.03 goals conceded per match, despite playing in mostly in shit teams after Ole. And in the two full seasons under Solskjaer, we were just a top 4 contender and nothing more.

Martínez conceded 53 in 44, 1.20 per game, despite apparently being light years ahead of Maguire, according to casuals. Varane conceded 67 in 68, 0.98 per game, despite him apparently also being miles better than him?

Even Lindelöf has a better record than Martínez btw: 195 in 179, 1.08 per game.

Your thought process is based on scapegoating our best centre half for:

1. Our defensive record worsening in seasons where we had arguably worse managers than Ole (Rangnick, ten Hag) and COLLECTIVELY GOT WORSE AS A TEAM too. Every player is responsible for our defensive record, not just Maguire.
2. When our defensive record got worse, Maguire was out of favour anyway.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Maguire did it in a high line for 2 seasons after he arrived. 36 goals conceded in 38 games in 19/20, as he played in every single league game, and then in 20/21 he conceded 36 in 34. We conceded 8 in the 4 matches he didn't play in.

In 2022/23, when Varane-Martínez became our first choice pairing, and played most of the games together, we had the 6th lowest line in the entire league. Maguire and Lindelöf formed the 6th and 4th highest lines in the league in 19/20 and then 20/21.

19/20 Def. Line height 45.07 (6th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.14)
20/21 Def. Line height 46.16 (4th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.97)

22/23 Def. Line height 42.92 (14th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.65)
23/24 Def. Line height 43.54 (15th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.75)

"Maguire's presence exacerbated things" Sorry but I cannot take your arguments seriously after this line here. I've just provided you with plenty of evidence that says Maguire is more than suited to a high line, and yet you just keep parroting the same things over and over again.

Maguire excelling in a high line for two seasons straight, and then being dropped under a manager that then goes on to play one of the deepest defensive lines in the whole league for two seasons straight, equals Maguire not suited for a high line to you?

You put a lot of the blame on him for our defensive record being shit under ETH, when he was 3rd choice CB at best, sometimes even 4th behind Lindelöf in 22/23 as well.

Here's Maguire's PL record for United btw

https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/harry-maguire-manchester-united-goals-conceded

1.03 goals conceded per match, despite playing in mostly in shit teams after Ole. And in the two full seasons under Solskjaer, we were just a top 4 contender and nothing more.

Martínez conceded 53 in 44, 1.20 per game, despite apparently being light years ahead of Maguire, according to casuals. Varane conceded 67 in 68, 0.98 per game, despite him apparently also being miles better than him?

Even Lindelöf has a better record than Martínez btw: 195 in 179, 1.08 per game.

Your thought process is based on scapegoating our best centre half for:

1. Our defensive record worsening in seasons where we had arguably worse managers than Ole (Rangnick, ten Hag) and COLLECTIVELY GOT WORSE AS A TEAM too. Every player is responsible for our defensive record, not just Maguire.
2. When our defensive record got worse, Maguire was out of favour anyway.

Maguire is anything but our best center back and he's excelled at nothing in his time here. Let's be truthful. Your best centerback doesn't receive universal/majority disapproval of the fanbase and of rival fans. Very few hold him in as high esteem as you and a few others do, despite the best efforts by the English media giants like Sky for instance to give him positive PR, something Keane admitted on live television

He lost his captaincy because he was deemed not good enough and not fit to lead this club. Bruno is far from ideal in this role as well but making him captain over Maguire was a no brainer.
Maguire's catalog of numerous erroneous and below par displays at this club have been mostly inexcusable. The threadmarks with negative reviews of his performances outnumber the positive ones on this forum by some distance going back to his first season. He wouldn't have a place in serious clubs chasing big titles, but at least the club have accepted that we can and should do better and he'll be moved on come next summer. To say he's been an underwhelming signing is putting things mildly. He's been an unmitigated disaster on the pitch, a collosal flop.

Never mind the legends, we've had better support defenders at this club like Ronny Johnsen, Wes Brown and Henning Berg. Mikaël Silvestre was probably equally as erroneous as Maguire but he had recovery pace and was much better on the ball. Maguire will not be missed when he finally leaves, and very few will look back at his time at united with fondness. Mediocrity personified

 

[sebsheep]

Maguire did it in a high line for 2 seasons after he arrived. 36 goals conceded in 38 games in 19/20, as he played in every single league game, and then in 20/21 he conceded 36 in 34. We conceded 8 in the 4 matches he didn't play in.

In 2022/23, when Varane-Martínez became our first choice pairing, and played most of the games together, we had the 6th lowest line in the entire league. Maguire and Lindelöf formed the 6th and 4th highest lines in the league in 19/20 and then 20/21.

19/20 Def. Line height 45.07 (6th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.14)
20/21 Def. Line height 46.16 (4th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.97)

22/23 Def. Line height 42.92 (14th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.65)
23/24 Def. Line height 43.54 (15th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.75)

"Maguire's presence exacerbated things" Sorry but I cannot take your arguments seriously after this line here. I've just provided you with plenty of evidence that says Maguire is more than suited to a high line, and yet you just keep parroting the same things over and over again.

Maguire excelling in a high line for two seasons straight, and then being dropped under a manager that then goes on to play one of the deepest defensive lines in the whole league for two seasons straight, equals Maguire not suited for a high line to you?

You put a lot of the blame on him for our defensive record being shit under ETH, when he was 3rd choice CB at best, sometimes even 4th behind Lindelöf in 22/23 as well.

Here's Maguire's PL record for United btw

https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/harry-maguire-manchester-united-goals-conceded

1.03 goals conceded per match, despite playing in mostly in shit teams after Ole. And in the two full seasons under Solskjaer, we were just a top 4 contender and nothing more.

Martínez conceded 53 in 44, 1.20 per game, despite apparently being light years ahead of Maguire, according to casuals. Varane conceded 67 in 68, 0.98 per game, despite him apparently also being miles better than him?

Even Lindelöf has a better record than Martínez btw: 195 in 179, 1.08 per game.

Your thought process is based on scapegoating our best centre half for:

1. Our defensive record worsening in seasons where we had arguably worse managers than Ole (Rangnick, ten Hag) and COLLECTIVELY GOT WORSE AS A TEAM too. Every player is responsible for our defensive record, not just Maguire.
2. When our defensive record got worse, Maguire was out of favour anyway.

You're basing an awful lot on some very big assumptions.

1. The amount of goals conceded is mainly down to your CB partnership.

2. The height of a defensive line is determined solely by the CBs.

3. The success of a highline is solely down to the CBs

I've already pointed out in this thread that the first season you're talking about as Maguire playing in a high line, United played a lower line than Burnley. The 2nd season we're closer to West Ham under Moyes than we are City or Liverpool. The actual height of the line is more relevant to than it being the 4-5th highest in the league. I think one of those seasons would have us as 12th in Italy.

 

[Andersonson]

You're basing an awful lot on some very big assumptions.

1. The amount of goals conceded is mainly down to your CB partnership.

2. The height of a defensive line is determined solely by the CBs.

3. The success of a highline is solely down to the CBs

This is just weird. You dont play a high line without having a functional team. You need fullbacks who understand when to attack, defend and position themselves. You need intelligent midfielders who covers a lot of ground and you need attackers who track back if the full backs have gone too high.

Your 2&3 is very very over simplified

 

[sebsheep]

This is just weird. You dont play a high line without having a functional team. You need fullbacks who understand when to attack, defend and position themselves. You need intelligent midfielders who covers a lot of ground and you need attackers who track back if the full backs have gone too high.

Your 2&3 is very very over simplified

Possibly a bit of a misunderstanding here.
They're not my opinions, I was pointing out the assumptions I think are being made by the poster.

 

[Rojofiam]

Maguire is anything but our best center back and he's excelled at nothing in his time here. Let's be truthful. Your best centerback doesn't receive universal/majority disapproval of the fanbase and of rival fans. Very few hold him in as high esteem as you and a few others do, despite the best efforts by the English media giants like Sky for instance to give him positive PR, something Keane admitted on live television

He lost his captaincy because he was deemed not good enough and not fit to lead this club. Bruno is far from ideal in this role as well but making him captain over Maguire was a no brainer.
Maguire's catalog of numerous erroneous and below par displays at this club have been mostly inexcusable. The threadmarks with negative reviews of his performances outnumber the positive ones on this forum by some distance going back to his first season. He wouldn't have a place in serious clubs chasing big titles, but at least the club have accepted that we can and should do better and he'll be moved on come next summer. To say he's been an underwhelming signing is putting things mildly. He's been an unmitigated disaster on the pitch, a collosal flop.

Never mind the legends, we've had better support defenders at this club like Ronny Johnsen, Wes Brown and Henning Berg. Mikaël Silvestre was probably equally as erroneous as Maguire but he had recovery pace and was much better on the ball. Maguire will not be missed when he finally leaves, and very few will look back at his time at united with fondness. Mediocrity personified

No point in continuing this discussion anymore.

 

[TheBigLewandowski]

Maguire deserves to be a United player.

If we have players like him rotating amongst our first 11 & bench then we know we have a good bunch of CB's similar to City's standards.

Maguire was overpriced but if he came for De Ligt money I honestly don't see too much of a difference once the captaincy left his armband.

Anyone under Maguire's ability as a CB isn't good enough, like Lindelof or Bailly.

If the transfer rumours were true - Having De Ligt, Yoro, Braithwaite, Martinez & Maguire arguably makes us having 1 of the top 3 CB'S groups in the league, arguably even the world.

 

[top1whoisman]

Our for ”a few weeks”.

 

[Revival2024]

Maguire is anything but our best center back and he's excelled at nothing in his time here. Let's be truthful. Your best centerback doesn't receive universal/majority disapproval of the fanbase and of rival fans. Very few hold him in as high esteem as you and a few others do, despite the best efforts by the English media giants like Sky for instance to give him positive PR, something Keane admitted on live television

He lost his captaincy because he was deemed not good enough and not fit to lead this club. Bruno is far from ideal in this role as well but making him captain over Maguire was a no brainer.
Maguire's catalog of numerous erroneous and below par displays at this club have been mostly inexcusable. The threadmarks with negative reviews of his performances outnumber the positive ones on this forum by some distance going back to his first season. He wouldn't have a place in serious clubs chasing big titles, but at least the club have accepted that we can and should do better and he'll be moved on come next summer. To say he's been an underwhelming signing is putting things mildly. He's been an unmitigated disaster on the pitch, a collosal flop.

Never mind the legends, we've had better support defenders at this club like Ronny Johnsen, Wes Brown and Henning Berg. Mikaël Silvestre was probably equally as erroneous as Maguire but he had recovery pace and was much better on the ball. Maguire will not be missed when he finally leaves, and very few will look back at his time at united with fondness. Mediocrity personified

Absolutely bang on. There are fans and segment of the media who are desperate to create this ridiculous narrative of an underdog rising from the flames. Maguire is emblematic of the anchor of failure that has been drowning Manchester United for several seasons now - he oozes that aura. The way some of his fans talk about him is as if he hasn't been at Manchester United for several seasons now. They cling on to scrappy headers and moments when he hasn't been a disaster and act as if he has proven people wrong. Maguire is finished at Manchester United and he knows it too. That's why he is laughably and desperately clutching on for his last season.

 

[SER19]

Maguire did it in a high line for 2 seasons after he arrived. 36 goals conceded in 38 games in 19/20, as he played in every single league game, and then in 20/21 he conceded 36 in 34. We conceded 8 in the 4 matches he didn't play in.

In 2022/23, when Varane-Martínez became our first choice pairing, and played most of the games together, we had the 6th lowest line in the entire league. Maguire and Lindelöf formed the 6th and 4th highest lines in the league in 19/20 and then 20/21.

19/20 Def. Line height 45.07 (6th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.14)
20/21 Def. Line height 46.16 (4th highest in the league, highest: Liverpool 49.97)

22/23 Def. Line height 42.92 (14th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.65)
23/24 Def. Line height 43.54 (15th highest in the league, highest: Man City 51.75)

"Maguire's presence exacerbated things" Sorry but I cannot take your arguments seriously after this line here. I've just provided you with plenty of evidence that says Maguire is more than suited to a high line, and yet you just keep parroting the same things over and over again.

Maguire excelling in a high line for two seasons straight, and then being dropped under a manager that then goes on to play one of the deepest defensive lines in the whole league for two seasons straight, equals Maguire not suited for a high line to you?

You put a lot of the blame on him for our defensive record being shit under ETH, when he was 3rd choice CB at best, sometimes even 4th behind Lindelöf in 22/23 as well.

Here's Maguire's PL record for United btw

https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask/harry-maguire-manchester-united-goals-conceded

1.03 goals conceded per match, despite playing in mostly in shit teams after Ole. And in the two full seasons under Solskjaer, we were just a top 4 contender and nothing more.

Martínez conceded 53 in 44, 1.20 per game, despite apparently being light years ahead of Maguire, according to casuals. Varane conceded 67 in 68, 0.98 per game, despite him apparently also being miles better than him?

Even Lindelöf has a better record than Martínez btw: 195 in 179, 1.08 per game.

Your thought process is based on scapegoating our best centre half for:

1. Our defensive record worsening in seasons where we had arguably worse managers than Ole (Rangnick, ten Hag) and COLLECTIVELY GOT WORSE AS A TEAM too. Every player is responsible for our defensive record, not just Maguire.
2. When our defensive record got worse, Maguire was out of favour anyway.

I agree that Maguire deserves some defence as a player. There was a spell where he performed terribly though, and he does have limtiations, but has done well to rebuild his reputation as a solid defender and Im glad hes part of a 4 centre back squad. A small caveat for Martinez, 13 conceded goals were in 2 games against city and liverpool, which of course he had a part in, but that level of defeat pointed to a complete back to front meltdown. Without them games, its 40 goals conceded in 42 games. Again, I know he played in those batterings but I think they were broad team problems rather than just defenders

 

[RedSky]

This always happens with our players. They're dropped or get an injury and because we're playing like utter dogshit people hype the missing player up. They forget all of the horrendous errors said player made and how shite said player was.

If you setup defensively and attempt to hide his weaknesses by building your defensive line and midfielders to accommodate him then yeah he's not bad. But why bother?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

That “I’ll be back stronger” shit really annoys me

They never once come back stronger

 

[Rojofiam]

I agree that Maguire deserves some defence as a player. There was a spell where he performed terribly though, and he does have limtiations, but has done well to rebuild his reputation as a solid defender and Im glad hes part of a 4 centre back squad. A small caveat for Martinez, 13 conceded goals were in 2 games against city and liverpool, which of course he had a part in, but that level of defeat pointed to a complete back to front meltdown. Without them games, its 40 goals conceded in 42 games. Again, I know he played in those batterings but I think they were broad team problems rather than just defenders

You have a point about Martínez, however this is true for every defender we've had in the past 4 seasons, including Maguire. Our defensive record took a hit in 21/22, and Maguire definitely has to take some of the blame for it, but we also had "broad team problems", like you said. If we want to judge them based on their performances that came in "stable" teams, Maguire's is pretty good in 19/20 and 20/21. Martínez also did well in 2022/23.

 

[Leftback99]

Big blow that. Would have been first choice under a new manager.

 

[McGrathsipan]

what the fuking feck.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Maguire is anything but our best center back and he's excelled at nothing in his time here. Let's be truthful. Your best centerback doesn't receive universal/majority disapproval of the fanbase and of rival fans. Very few hold him in as high esteem as you and a few others do, despite the best efforts by the English media giants like Sky for instance to give him positive PR, something Keane admitted on live television

He lost his captaincy because he was deemed not good enough and not fit to lead this club. Bruno is far from ideal in this role as well but making him captain over Maguire was a no brainer.
Maguire's catalog of numerous erroneous and below par displays at this club have been mostly inexcusable. The threadmarks with negative reviews of his performances outnumber the positive ones on this forum by some distance going back to his first season. He wouldn't have a place in serious clubs chasing big titles, but at least the club have accepted that we can and should do better and he'll be moved on come next summer. To say he's been an underwhelming signing is putting things mildly. He's been an unmitigated disaster on the pitch, a collosal flop.

Never mind the legends, we've had better support defenders at this club like Ronny Johnsen, Wes Brown and Henning Berg. Mikaël Silvestre was probably equally as erroneous as Maguire but he had recovery pace and was much better on the ball. Maguire will not be missed when he finally leaves, and very few will look back at his time at united with fondness. Mediocrity personified

Just for the record you never gave him an 8, 9, or 10 then

 

[USREDEVIL]

Feck it. Give Henry Maguiro the captaincy back.

 

[Bondi77]

Geez..I hope Jonny stays fit for at least a few months otherwise we are down to the bare bones with Lisandro and De ligt and that has looked shaky so far to say the least.

 

[TheGame]

 

[justsomebloke]

Sky (or rather, The Star on Sunday) reports United will consider offers for him in the winter window. Asking price 10m apparently.