From Henry Winter. Says it all.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 25
- Clean sheets
- 6
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 8
From Henry Winter. Says it all.
De Ligt easily and it's incredible one of our fans even has to ask that.
Go on. Which attributes and performances stand out to put him clear ahead?
Martinez has been widely accepted as poor for a long time until his recent 2 goals helped.
De Ligt has done nothing here to suggest it's madness to put Maguire ahead. His best performance was against Southampton months ago. I get that it annoys people who said he was world class in the summer and Maguire was finished here but it's true so far. Hopefully changes in the future.
Martinez has had patchy form but in no world do people want Maguire ahead of him if he’s fit. Maguire has had sketchy form basically his whole career bar early days with Ole playing a counter attack system.
I don’t think anyone said that about De Ligt, I personally said it seemed a decent fee. I’d have him over Maguire purely because Maguire is just too slow (and that is saying something given De Ligt is quite slow) and he’s more aggressive whereas Maguire is generally quite passive and doesn’t use his strength as he could/should.
Most PL managers would not have Martinez particularly in a 2. Too many obvious defensive flaws and set piece weakness.
Disagree on what I've seen here, he's not stood out on anything in particular so far. Certainly nothing to suggest anyone needs medical help for saying another has been best.
Honest question, and it's great to see you have support for one of our senior players. Would you say United have been a disaster for the last 5 years despite Maguire or do you think he's contributed to how bad we've been?
I defended the guy multiple times when he was attacked with inane and agressive over the top statements.
This is a guy that NEVER deserved as a human being the treatment he got in social media and such. That got his shut mouth and wait his chance to come back and that in some aspects he can have great instances in a match and have even a periods were he doesn't feck it up and keeps it tidy.
Yet he doesn't have the type of character, ability to play as much as was paid for him in terms of thinking that with such sum someone was getting an all around trully great CB to build the future of United's backline.
Resilliance ain't enough. He lacks that edge, the communication needed from a very sharp and clever player to lead a line. He even isn't mean enough, malice is a term that slipps through his hands like sand.
And I would never get how people so easily forgets tons, and I mean literraly tons of mistakes (not even meaning that should end on a goal, that has lots of them too): without any sort of presion from the rival, without even lacking form or fitness or that required basic skills in his role as controlling a high ball, or simply keep the offside line as leader of the defense...there can be made 10 minutes vids of such situations.
Reminds me when United went for Rojo, ridiculous to try to build sthg around him (I'm suffering him in Boca that comitted the same mistake), even when sometimes he could have his good period and certainly had blood running throught his veins and ressiliance too. I recently read that Virgil was more or less avaiable at that moment, it's a real bad choice to go fro Marcos.
Harry is an Otamendi in some aspects, this last lad can have a stretch of very comitted periods, that can repell wave after wave of attacks, yet he "has that mistake in him" waiting to happen even in his best day. And I don't mean a dribbler leaving him on the dust, some great header when someone gets the best of him, I mean to trully feck it up many times without any sort of help from the rival. This guy had an almost perfect WC yet in the last match he decided to rushed a la Ota in three instances and he almost blew everything and ruined a perfect perfomance from everyone in that final (included him) at that point.
Harry doesn't have that over the top nasty edge that also puts Otamendi in trouble, he is more controlled, yet on the other hand sometimes someone should check if he has blood running througth his veins. And it's not that he is a cold blooded assasin, perfect cyborg, nope, he is just Harry.
Harry deserves this time of personal redemption? yes. He deserves to be praise when he gains lots of headers in the little area? yeap, he deserves to be in the team in current bad times, absolutely.
BUT at the same time he doesn't deserve to be call in such high esteem in the terms sometimes he is call, while in the meantime demerit everything any other defender does in this team in terms of enhacing his (suppose) extraordinary ability, intelligence and leader character.
This is a guy that NEVER deserved as a human being the treatment he got in social media and such. That got his shut mouth and wait his chance to come back and that in some aspects he can have great instances in a match and have even a periods were he doesn't feck it up and keeps it tidy.
Yet he doesn't have the type of character, ability to play as much as was paid for him in terms of thinking that with such sum someone was getting an all around trully great CB to build the future of United's backline.
Resilliance ain't enough. He lacks that edge, the communication needed from a very sharp and clever player to lead a line. He even isn't mean enough, malice is a term that slipps through his hands like sand.
And I would never get how people so easily forgets tons, and I mean literraly tons of mistakes (not even meaning that should end on a goal, that has lots of them too): without any sort of presion from the rival, without even lacking form or fitness or that required basic skills in his role as controlling a high ball, or simply keep the offside line as leader of the defense...there can be made 10 minutes vids of such situations.
Reminds me when United went for Rojo, ridiculous to try to build sthg around him (I'm suffering him in Boca that comitted the same mistake), even when sometimes he could have his good period and certainly had blood running throught his veins and ressiliance too. I recently read that Virgil was more or less avaiable at that moment, it's a real bad choice to go fro Marcos.
Harry is an Otamendi in some aspects, this last lad can have a stretch of very comitted periods, that can repell wave after wave of attacks, yet he "has that mistake in him" waiting to happen even in his best day. And I don't mean a dribbler leaving him on the dust, some great header when someone gets the best of him, I mean to trully feck it up many times without any sort of help from the rival. This guy had an almost perfect WC yet in the last match he decided to rushed a la Ota in three instances and he almost blew everything and ruined a perfect perfomance from everyone in that final (included him) at that point.
Harry doesn't have that over the top nasty edge that also puts Otamendi in trouble, he is more controlled, yet on the other hand sometimes someone should check if he has blood running througth his veins. And it's not that he is a cold blooded assasin, perfect cyborg, nope, he is just Harry.
Harry deserves this time of personal redemption? yes. He deserves to be praise when he gains lots of headers in the little area? yeap, he deserves to be in the team in current bad times, absolutely.
BUT at the same time he doesn't deserve to be call in such high esteem in the terms sometimes he is call, while in the meantime demerit everything any other defender does in this team in terms of enhacing his (suppose) extraordinary ability, intelligence and leader character.
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It's weird af.
Despite over paying by £10-20m I'd say he's second only to Bruno in terms of contribution on the pitch vs money spent for transfers since 2019.
Before you say that's madness, think about the rest of the players we've spent £750m(?) on and how many actually contribute anything useful.
You say that yet we have a period of time when both Martinez and Maguire were available, we played a two and Martinez formed an exceptionally good defensive partnership. I will go with the actual proof we have not the hypothetical. Check my post history, I have never thought Maguire was a joke, he is just an average PL CB (better than average in the right system) who found himself unfortunately on the end of a huge transfer fee. But he is not good enough to play for a club who want to be in the CL and compete, and by play I mean start - he is a great squad player.
I don't think any of our squad are 'competing for CL' level.
If that is the sole response you have, my work here is done.
That fine. I assume you think otherwise?
If you were expecting a response on Martinez in a 2. A CB with obvious limitations was very Ten Hag specific, every other PL manager goes for physicality at CB. His best performances came in very deep blocks, funnily enough an argument used against Maguire.
Maguire formed a good partnership, in a higher line for a longer period with Victor Lindelof.
Martinez needed a world class box defender alongside him in a deep line to look half decent. And Varane was brilliant in that season.
Maguire is a very good PL CB. Is he world class? No, is he the best in the league? No. But he is still very good. He is though without a shadow of a doubt error prone, but he is also something of a risk taker in his defending which can lead to errors.
De ligt is of a similar standard very good but not world class.
Martinez In all honesty is a step below In the PL, his complete lack of physical attributes is too big a flaw.
Yes, as said? I said some manager might go for Maguire/ De Ligt in a two fi we play deep and they want a lot of aerial protection but I think most would go for Martinez/De Ligt personally.
Varane was never world class here, he was a patched up crock but excellent in the deeper line with Martinez because both of them knew their roles and are combative as feck (something Maguire is not). It's really the same reason all our players look better in the deep line, none of them were fast enough or agile enough or good enough on the ball, the exception to this is Martinez re on ball ability but he is relatively slow/and small. So in a deep line Varane was easily the best but all of them generally look 'good' because its much easier for a CB to play that role.
My same sentiments, which is why I'm hoping we sell in the summer.
Based on ability he absolutely deserves his place in the team this season but he's not worth keeping even if it means risking to replace with a youth prospect/low value option in the summer.
Yet aparrently when reading this thread he is very very good and the mistakes he has done over his whole carreer it's mostly because he is a risk taker....sometimes just size can enhace the perception of player in the mighty PL.
Tottenham 1:0 Man Utd
New
He was shite yesterday and his lack of pace really kills us.
He is what he is, a cover player who is leaving next summer.
Maguire is a slightly better player without the armband so let's just leave it there.
And yet someone in the De Ligt thread called him "brilliant". I'm at a complete loss at this point...
Him and De Ligt were pretty much on par. A generous rating would be a 6.5. They both terrify me when opposition players run at them.
rescuing us ? Henry Winter is a muppet. Basically a PR guy for some players rather than a real journalist.
We shouldn't have taken up the option. He's one that we should have moved on from long ago.
Spot on.
You can't move on from the guy that actually delivers most often than not, unlike some who are either injured or not as good when they are fit.
You absolutely can. He's been here long enough and he isn't good enough.
He isn't good enough to be an undisputed starter. Very good squad player however.
Disagree. Not with the wages he's on.
Didn't think he was shite at all- him, De Ligt and Dorgu were the best of the back 5 and all played pretty well. It is painful watching him trying to sprint back though because it exposes the lack of pace in the defence. Everything else in his game was decent.
3rd in man of match votes yesterday.
Caf haters: sell him
They can't stand him playing well
Caf haters: sell him
They can't stand him playing well
You're a fan of another team or a wum. How on earth do you think he's playing well? You're on here consistently saying how great he is. You said he's our 2nd best signing since Ferguson. You can't honestly believe that?3rd in man of match votes yesterday.
Caf haters: sell him
They can't stand him playing well
Because he is as many others agree.
And no I didn't. But let's hear your top 5 for a laugh?
It's a waste of time giving my top 5 because they've been so bad. But Maguire would be in my bottom 5. You said he's playing well. Can you elaborate?
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Ok, just as I expected.
Ok
Bruno
Shaw
Diallo
Garnacho
Zlatan
It's probably a terrible list but it's quite hard. Can you elaborate on how Maguire is playing well?
We all know he isn't. He's scraping by, and it still terrifies me when I see his name on the team sheet.
You're right it's hard especially when you purposely try to ignore one of the few signings that has actually contributed regularly on the pitch and not been constantly injured in that that time.
And somehow you'd have him lower than at least two of Antony, Sancho, Sanchez, Casemiro, Van de Beek, Onana, Bailly and others?
Last 4 starts, a 2nd and 2 3rds in the Motm votes on here. Everyone can see he isn't playing well though apparently
. Keep digging.
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