[Tavern in the town]

I believe that they know a bit of football more then you do. Pep had burnt more defenders than a Ferrari F1 car had burnt tyres. Let's say that choosing defenders is not his strength

I also believe Pep knows more about football than you. So do Southgate and Ole. For that matter, so does Fergie who rates Maguire. I don’t actually care about any of this since I prefer to make my own mind up about people, but you obviously care since you set so much store by Tuchel and Klopp’s opinion on Rangnick.

 

[devilish]

I also believe Pep knows more about football than you. So do Southgate and Ole. For that matter, so does Fergie who rates Maguire. I don’t actually care about any of this since I prefer to make my own mind up about people, but you obviously care since you set so much store by Tuchel and Klopp’s opinion on Rangnick.

There is no doubt that it is the case. However we can all see what Maguire does week in week out and judge accordingly. We can do the same with Rangnick's style of football who thrives with Klopp, Tuchel and Nagelsmann as well

 

[Pronewbie]

Bailly showing the anticipation and aggression that was sorely lacking in the 1st half's defensive pairing.. Pace certainly helps, too..

 

[devilish]

I don't think it's anyone fault but Maguire. I think a centre back being slow isn't that relevant in a modern pressing game. I don't think five mins in a pre season proves either of our points. But you have you mind made up so it is a confirmation of your prior view.

We have been seeing these mistakes for the past year

 

[RedPed]

No other player in the squad would get this much scrutiny over that goal. Maguire Caf.

No other player in the squad has so many apologists. I don't understand what you can't see that literally the rest of the world does.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

We have been seeing these mistakes for the past year

In a brilliantly coached high pressing team ?

For the last year in games with and without Maguire we have seen what happens when you have a high line with a poorly coached press.

If you are in a high line team with a poorly coached press, does it help to have two fast centre backs. Marginally, because sometimes they might get a last ditch tackle in.

If you have a high line team with a well coached press, does it help to have two fast centre backs ? I would say it doesn't make a major difference.

All else being equal, you want every player on the pitch to be the fastest man on earth. But all else isn't equal. Bailly is faster than Maguire but brings less on balance, in a poor coached press but more importantly in a well coached press, which we don't have today but hopefully will have.

 

[acnumber9]

The goal isn’t particularly his fault but sometimes players make mistakes and others have to step up to rectify that mistake. I rarely see Maguire doing something where I’ve thought he has saved us from conceding a goal there. A centre back for Man United has to do more than just not being the most to blame for a goal.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

No other player in the squad has so many apologists. I don't understand what you can't see that literally the rest of the world does.

Let's analyse. On your side : meme accounts and forum posters. On the side of Maguire is good: actual football managers. Good luck with that

 

[#07]

Contrary to popular belief he is a good defender and very good on the ball. Unfortunately his mobility is alarming as well as having no real recovery pace.

All of this is true. In a counter attacking set up Maguire would be a rock. Sadly, for everyone, United have been trying to evolve beyond that since his first season.

In a Mourinho team Maguire would thrive. But we've been trying to get away from being that for a few years now. Not clear to me that he can be part of the final stage of that evolution.

 

[Leftback99]

No other player in the squad has so many apologists. I don't understand what you can't see that literally the rest of the world does.

I wonder if Liverpool fans are having an inquest over Van Dijk's pathetic effort to stop the Pellistri goal last game.

Obviously Ten Hag doesn't agree with 'the rest of the world' either.

 

[Lyng]

I wonder if Liverpool fans are having an inquest over Van Dijk's pathetic effort to stop the Pellistri goal last game.

Obviously Ten Hag doesn't agree with 'the rest of the world' either.

I must have missed the part where Van Dijk just had an absolute howler of a season

 

[crossy1686]

He's probably just not fit but the goal they scored could have been any goal we conceded last season. He's just such a limited defender that I'm not convinced he can play in any team that doesn't have a deep line, and even then he's not as aggressive as Bailly (neither is Lindelöf) in the tackle, which gives the forward time to get comfortable on the ball and skin him with a quick turn or 1-2. He really can't have another 6 months like he played last season otherwise he's finished.

 

[acnumber9]

I wonder if Liverpool fans are having an inquest over Van Dijk's pathetic effort to stop the Pellistri goal last game.

Obviously Ten Hag doesn't agree with 'the rest of the world' either.

Probably not. But then he has a history of being a key player in a team winning the league and the Champions League. When Maguire does that he’ll get a little more leeway.

 

[Greck]

People are right in pointing out to naysayers that it wasn't his mistake but it's also food for thought that every time someone else makes a mistake or the other team catches us he's not going to have a chance. Nearly every time we lose the ball playing from the back could be a goal. This is also why it doesn't come as a surprise to see ETH chasing athletic defenders, because it's going to happen on occasion and the defense can't be fcked every single time.

The thing with Maguire is he isn't a positioning genius so it's moot to compare him to slow defenders who were way smarter.

 

[devilish]

In a brilliantly coached high pressing team ?

For the last year in games with and without Maguire we have seen what happens when you have a high line with a poorly coached press.

If you are in a high line team with a poorly coached press, does it help to have two fast centre backs. Marginally, because sometimes they might get a last ditch tackle in.

If you have a high line team with a well coached press, does it help to have two fast centre backs ? I would say it doesn't make a major difference.

All else being equal, you want every player on the pitch to be the fastest man on earth. But all else isn't equal. Bailly is faster than Maguire but brings less on balance, in a poor coached press but more importantly in a well coached press, which we don't have today but hopefully will have.

Rangnick is brilliant. However that's not the point. Not every high press team have brilliant coaches or managers. Defenders still manage to cope with that

Maguire's issues aren't solely about pace. He lack positioning, defensive awareness and leadership as well. He is perfect in a low block defence that defend in numbers. We cannot be that

 

[Leftback99]

Bailly's miskick just now, imagine if that was someone else...

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Lyng]

Bailly's miskick just now, imagine if that was someone else...

Look at the match thread. Basically two pages full of people (rightly) calling out Baillys mistakes.
The only difference is there isnt a group of people trying to put the blame on everyone else.

 

[JB7]

Lindelof's play may be worse than Maguire's but we don't have to pick sides.

Maguire's lack of pace isn't his fault, but it's not the club's duty to play him because his limitations are out of his control. If you play a high line and you play with risk you're going to get caught out in behind sometimes, and you need players who can deal with those situations. We've just hamstrung ourselves, we're hoping to play so perfect that our weaknesses never ever get exposed which is just unrealistic. If we want to be the best team possible we need centre backs who can stay with their man when the ball is player in behind and into the channels.

When the ball is played in behind out wide, Maguire is several yards deeper than the striker so he's actually in a good position to not allow the striker goal side. Fast forward a few seconds and he's miles behind play as they score a tap in.

The other issue is Maguire and Lindelof have played together 3 years and still don't ever seem to be in sync. Either both need to commit to an offside trap or both need to drop off. Lack of organisation.

I certainly wasn't picking sides. I asked what people expected Maguire to do in the situation, should he have stepped up alongside Lindelof and it's also not wrong to say that if Lindelof was going to step out in such a manner he had to win the ball. It's also interesting to note that we are now onto the third page of the Maguire thread since kick off, whereas there hasn't even been a comment in the Lindelof thread which would suggest sides have well and truly been picked by the good people of RedCafe and that Maguire is naturally the one at fault (as I'm sure he will be if we concede in the last 15 minutes too despite having been off the field since half time).

Regarding them being out of sync, I agree with you. They have never really got to grips of one anothers games and covered the others weaknesses which is what you'd expect of a centre back pairing - and that is despite some excellent performances as a pair, but it is never backed up with consistency. That said, I think the likelihood is that they will soon be third and fourth choice so it's unlikely to be an issue that we'll see too much of in the coming season.

 

[Idxomer]

He's our worst defender, the club needs to stop this failed experience because he's only gonna keep getting worse from now on.

 

[Leftback99]

Look at the match thread. Basically two pages full of people (rightly) calling out Baillys mistakes.
The only difference is there isnt a group of people trying to put the blame on everyone else.

Who else would be to blame?

 

[devilish]

My point exactly

 

[RedPed]

I wonder if Liverpool fans are having an inquest over Van Dijk's pathetic effort to stop the Pellistri goal last game.

Obviously Ten Hag doesn't agree with 'the rest of the world' either.

hang on.... you're comparing Maguire with van Dijk???

 

[Leftback99]

hang on.... you're comparing Maguire with van Dijk???

How did I know that pathetic response was coming.

 

[devilish]

Look at the match thread. Basically two pages full of people (rightly) calling out Baillys mistakes.
The only difference is there isnt a group of people trying to put the blame on everyone else.

Bailly is a squad player whose probably on the way out. Maguire is the club's captain. Its like defending Keane by highlighting Phil nev's mistakes

 

[Dominos]

If you have a high line team with a well coached press, does it help to have two fast centre backs ? I would say it doesn't make a major difference.

I wonder if Klopp would agree that replacing VVD/Matip/Konate with 3 Maguire's wouldn't make a major difference to his team.

 

[hobbers]

How did I know that pathetic response was coming.

Probably because you realised the original comparison was nonsense.

Liverpool fans dont have an inquest about VVD every time they concede because he's proven himself to be the best defender in the league, maybe in the world right now.

While Maguire was one of the worst performing centre backs in top tier football for all of last season.

 

[RedPed]

How did I know that pathetic response was coming.

It wasn't a very good example, let's be honest.

 

[Leftback99]

Probably because you realised the original comparison was nonsense.

Liverpool fans dont have an inquest about VVD every time they concede because he's proven himself to be the best defender in the league, maybe in the world right now.

While Maguire was one of the worst performing centre backs in top tier football for all of last season.

It's not nonsense at all. It's a clear example of double standards and the complete overreaction to every goal we concede when he's on the pitch.

But yeah turn it into "hahaha you think Maguire is better than Van Dijk" if you can't think of a valid response.

If Maguire played the Lindelof role in that goal you can be sure the focus would be on that instead.

 

[Lyng]

Who else would be to blame?

Noone...exactly like noone else should be blamed for Maguires errors.

 

[edgecutter]

He's far too slow for what ten Hag wants to play. He should be on the list of players to leave because he isn't going to find a few yards of pace. It's all down hill from here

 

[Stadjer]

Only seen that clip of the first goal but I would say that first goal was more on Lindelof than on Maguire.

Difference is that a really good or agile and quick defender could have corrected Lindelof his mistake by good positioning and anticipation or pure pace. Maguire cant do any of that and thats why he isnt a fantastic (like former Manchester United players at the same position) centre back but just a decent centre back who can look good in certain systems.

 

[VanDeBank]

Baffling how ETH kept him as captain.

Varane, Bailly and Lindelof are better and with Martinez coming in, and Lindelof being preferred on the left I don't see why Maguire should even be 3rd CB.

 

[Paxi]

Clean slate and all but even with that , there is absolutely no way he can play inside the opponent’s half like we’ve seen Ten hags defenders do. There is a reason why ETH is sticking Telles at CB - he values recovery pace. Maguire is a liability in this system.

Have nothing against the lad but he’s not going to get any faster and although the goal wasn’t his fault - we’ve seen the ease with which the player just accelerated away from him. It’s not going to work.

 

[Someone]

Only issue for the goal was his pace. That will be a problem in our new system. But I hear that Martinez isn't the quickest either.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

I've just seen the goal. To me it seems to be a combination of a poor press from Elanga and Shaw, a poor attempt at proactive defending by Lindelof, and a lack of recovery pace from Maguire. On top of that, it must be said that the assist was very well placed.

I must say I think it's very unfair that people are only losing their shit at Maguire for it. He wasn't solely, or in my view even primarily, at fault for this goal and further has just come back from an injury and is playing his first minutes of pre-season. It's not difficult to see why the players in general (not just Maguire) might not be at their sharpest.

Essentially, people need to stop making such a huge deal out of pre-season.

 

[Paxi]

Baffling how ETH kept him as captain.

Varane, Bailly and Lindelof are better and with Martinez coming in, and Lindelof being preferred on the left I don't see why Maguire should even be 3rd CB.

We’ll he’s not going to be captain if he’s not playing. I don’t think it’s a case of Louis van Gaal my captain shall always play. Think he’ll probably not even start the season off - it’ll be Martinez and Varane.

 

[ti vu]

His fault. Hold the line on the halfway line and there would be no passing options. Lindelof tactically did better.

Play in a high line. Don't just backpedal to create number disadvantage then have no recovery pace to boost.

Edit: ETH stood right there. I doubt he would be blind enough to point finger at Lindelof. Very basic textbook halfway line offside trap.

 

[VidaRed]

Maguire can't cope with the pressure, give the armband to ddg.

 

[Paxi]

His fault. Hold the line on the halfway line and there would be no passing options. Lindelof tactically did better.

What it shows you is how slow he is as well. I mean I don’t think the other guy was particularly fast either. Playing with half a pitch behind him if fecking suicidal and if Ten Haag goes with it then it’s his neck.