[Dominos]

None of City’s centre halves are quick. Klopp also played a high line with Hummels who is as slow as Maguire.

I agree but that’s not what I’m getting at. I’m disputing the idea the centre halves need to be quick to play in a high line. It’s just absolute rubbish created by kids on Twitter.

It's not about needing to be quick, it's about not being painfully slow.

It's about building your team with the best attributes for your style of football. I can't believe for a second that a centre back who can't run can ever be our best option for a high line, attacking team.

Varane and Bailly would have stayed with their man and cut that square pass out.

 

[Chief123]

We had the 2nd best defence in the league in 20/21. We played the 4th highest defensive line in the league.

In every game against a tough opponent we played in a counter attack set up that season with Rashford, Greenwood and Martial breaking.

Being the 4th highest defensive line isn’t really endorsing considering there are only around 4 top teams in the league who play a high line virtually every game.

I know you’re a Maguire fan. I’m not and simply don’t think he’s good enough especially in a high line system.

 

[RedSky]

We're always going to have this handicap when Maguire plays. Everyone knows he's slow as feck and has poor mobility. Either we come up with a system where this handicap isn't an issue or we just have to accept that teams will be able to counter us fairly easily. It's not a new problem, we've known this for over 2 seasons now.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

It is not his fault that he lacks the positioning, the leadership and the pace to play/organise a high line defence

Fair play for forming that opinion in less than a half of friendly summer football

 

[Crashoutcassius]

what about 10 other seasons?

your post shows how delusional Maguire apologists are.

You saying 36 goals is shipping goals in the prem just made you look stupid, that's all I'm pointing out

 

[Chief123]

None of City’s centre halves are quick. Klopp also played a high line with Hummels who is as slow as Maguire.

They are quick enough to be able to play high. They don’t need to be rapid. They just need to not be slow and cumbersome which Maguire is.

 

[Newtonius]

Fair play for forming that opinion in less than a half of friendly summer football

Agreed he has only just joined us guys give him a chance ffs

 

[devilish]

Fair play for forming that opinion in less than a half of friendly summer football

We've seen that in the past year. Both ole and Rangnick tried a high line defence and Maguire was shocking under both

 

[Crashoutcassius]

We've seen that in the past year. Both ole and Rangnick tried a high line defence and Maguire was shocking under both

Are you saying they were well coaches high line defences though. Every player we played struggled in both of those teams. So where is your actual evidence ? 5 mins under a competent high line manager

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Agreed he has only just joined us guys give him a chance ffs

Use critical thinking. Have we just changed manager. Will the coaching and style change. Think about the conversation you are joining

 

[Woodenlung]

Lindelof and Shaw are fully responsible for that goal yet the agenda peddlers are back into this thread in full force to blame Maguire. In a pre-season game no less.

Like a lot of the goals we conceded last season, it's mistakes from players further up the pitch which cascades until the final one is made by Maguire. Yet he gets a disproportionate amount of the blame.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Fair play for forming that opinion in less than a half of friendly summer football

He is a 29 years old player who has relegated 4 times in his career winning 0 trophies with 0% win rate in finals, with an average of 1.3 goals conceded per 90 minutes in his career, even though he played 6 of his 11 senior seasons in Championship or League One. Shawcross has a better average goals conceded per 90 record even though he played in Stoke City in his entire PL career.

Haven't we got enough information to determine that he is not a defender who fits to be a starter for a title contending team?

 

[Tavern in the town]

They are quick enough to be able to play high. They don’t need to be rapid. They just need to not be slow and cumbersome which Maguire is.

Hummels is as slow as Maguire for sure.

 

[devilish]

Are you saying they were well coaches high line defences though. Every player we played struggled in both of those teams. So where is your actual evidence ? 5 mins under a competent high line manager

So its everything's fault apart from Maguire's....ok. For the record I don't think that Maguire is shit. In my opinion he'll excel in a deep line and surrounded by players who can do the thinking on his behalf. Unfortunately we haven't played that game for a year and there's no chance in hell that ETH will revert to that game.

 

[Tavern in the town]

We've seen that in the past year. Both ole and Rangnick tried a high line defence and Maguire was shocking under both

If tactical masterminds Ole and Rangnick couldn’t play him in a high line then he must be shite.

 

[devilish]

Lindelof and Shaw are fully responsible for that goal yet the agenda peddlers are back into this thread in full force to blame Maguire. In a pre-season game no less.

Like a lot of the goals we conceded last season, it's mistakes from players further up the pitch which cascades until the final one is made by Maguire. Yet he gets a disproportionate amount of the blame.

Who should organize the defence? Our defender who also happen to be captain.

 

[RedSky]

Who should organize the defence? Our defender who also happen to be captain.

Nah, the ball boy should be doing it.

 

[devilish]

If tactical masterminds Ole and Rangnick couldn’t play him in a high line then he must be shite.

Actually Rangnick's football style had revolutionised German's style of football and had influenced Klopp's and Tuchel's game in a radical way. But he's shit and all that because he couldn't turn a defender who had been relegated 4 times in his career into the next Van Dijk.

 

[Yagami]

Lindelof and Shaw are fully responsible for that goal yet the agenda peddlers are back into this thread in full force to blame Maguire. In a pre-season game no less.

Like a lot of the goals we conceded last season, it's mistakes from players further up the pitch which cascades until the final one is made by Maguire. Yet he gets a disproportionate amount of the blame.

Don't bother, mate. The agendas are clear to see.

 

[Chief123]

Hummels is as slow as Maguire for sure.

I’ve seen Hummels get smoked plenty of times at Dortmund and Bayern. But to compare him to Maguire is strange. Hummels is a significantly better player than Maguire.

Choosing Hummels in comparison is also not an endorsement of slow players in a high line considering he was playing for Dortmund in a 2 horse race league. Maguire would get away with it in the same scenario.

 

[Dominos]

Intrigued what people criticising Maguire for the goal would have had him do instead? We know he's not quick, if Lindelof is going to step up as the ball is played he has to win the ball otherwise we'd be in trouble even if Maguire was quicker. I'm all for critique where fair but if Maguire was sat deeper in that moment then we'd all be up in arms that he was too deep. Or are we saying he should have been higher up alongside Lindelof? There is criticism to be levelled but it seems the main criticism is that he just wasn't fast enough which is a the one thing he can't control. It's utter shite from Heaton as well.

Lindelof's play may be worse than Maguire's but we don't have to pick sides.

Maguire's lack of pace isn't his fault, but it's not the club's duty to play him because his limitations are out of his control. If you play a high line and you play with risk you're going to get caught out in behind sometimes, and you need players who can deal with those situations. We've just hamstrung ourselves, we're hoping to play so perfect that our weaknesses never ever get exposed which is just unrealistic. If we want to be the best team possible we need centre backs who can stay with their man when the ball is player in behind and into the channels.

When the ball is played in behind out wide, Maguire is several yards deeper than the striker so he's actually in a good position to not allow the striker goal side. Fast forward a few seconds and he's miles behind play as they score a tap in.

The other issue is Maguire and Lindelof have played together 3 years and still don't ever seem to be in sync. Either both need to commit to an offside trap or both need to drop off. Lack of organisation.

 

[Woodenlung]

Who should organize the defence? Our defender who also happen to be captain.

No amount of organisation can account for the two errors made by Lindelof and Shaw. They completely lost their men and exposed the rest of our defence. That's not on Maguire no matter what you want to think.

There have been instances when the latter has just played poorly and been responsible for goals conceded. But far too often have mistakes from others and system malfunctions been attributed to Maguire rather than the true culprit.

 

[Woodenlung]

Don't bother, mate. The agendas are clear to see.

It's been obvious for a while now, but still disappointing to see. They'd rather shit on someone than actually watch what's happening on the pitch.

 

[flameinthesun]

Contrary to popular belief he is a good defender and very good on the ball. Unfortunately his mobility is alarming as well as having no real recovery pace.

 

[Olecurls99]

It really isn’t. At all. (Pace)

Not important

 

[devilish]

No amount of organisation can account for the two errors made by Lindelof and Shaw. They completely lost their men and exposed the rest of our defence. That's not on Maguire no matter what you want to think.

There have been instances when the latter has just played poorly and been responsible for goals conceded. But far too often have mistakes from others and system malfunctions been attributed to Maguire rather than the true culprit.

Lindelof and Shaw should have enough brains to tackle the issue themselves. However I can't help thinking that whenever Maguire play our defence look leaderless and disorganized as if Carragher is leading our defence. Maybe its down to Maguire's pace, his poor positioning sense or his lack of leadership.

If you ask me, none of these players should wear the red shirt ever again. Its evident time and time again that they aren't good enough. You can throw AWB and Telles to the mix as well while at it.

 

[Leftback99]

The state of this thread for a goal in a pre season friendly .

 

[devilish]

The state of this thread for a goal in a pre season friendly .

we've seen similar mistakes being made throughout last season. Also this is a Maguire's thread so its fair enough to discuss his performance here.

 

[RC89]

Playing a high line with both Maguire and Lindelof is suicide.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Actually Rangnick's football style had revolutionised German's style of football and had influenced Klopp's and Tuchel's game in a radical way. But he's shit and all that because he couldn't turn a defender who had been relegated 4 times in his career into the next Van Dijk.

Yes, Rangnick is a shit manager. Amazing to see how people can think otherwise after his spell in charge.

 

[Tavern in the town]

I’ve seen Hummels get smoked plenty of times at Dortmund and Bayern. But to compare him to Maguire is strange. Hummels is a significantly better player than Maguire.

Choosing Hummels in comparison is also not an endorsement of slow players in a high line considering he was playing for Dortmund in a 2 horse race league. Maguire would get away with it in the same scenario.

This doesn’t make sense. The whole argument is that Maguire cannot deal with pace because he’s slow. Just because the Bundesliga is a two horse race doesn’t mean teams don’t have quick attackers.

 

[Paxi]

He’ll be too slow for ETH. I mean there’s no way he’ll be able to consistently play inside the opposition half. You can will someone on but is physically impossible.

 

[devilish]

Yes, Rangnick is a shit manager. Amazing to see how people can think otherwise after his spell in charge.

yeah let's judge a person's career from few months at a club whose team was assembled by an amateur and whose performances had train wrecked way before he came. Sure Klopp and Tuchel rate him highly but they fail in comparison to your good self.

 

[mctrials23]

Contrary to popular belief he is a good defender and very good on the ball. Unfortunately his mobility is alarming as well as having no real recovery pace.

This is my view for the most part. He looks like he is running in treacle at times and hes slow to turn and track.

You can argue that player X caused the issue but the best defenders compensate for mistakes and have the attributes to allow them to recover from mistakes. It wasn't their mistake but its obvious that a faster player might have been able to fix the error. VvD is a prime example of this. He covers a lot of mistakes from others which makes everyone think that the players around him are better.

 

[Leftback99]

we've seen similar mistakes being made throughout last season. Also this is a Maguire's thread so its fair enough to discuss his performance here.

No other player in the squad would get this much scrutiny over that goal. Maguire Caf.

 

[Newtonius]

Use critical thinking. Have we just changed manager. Will the coaching and style change. Think about the conversation you are joining

So what though these are the same issues we saw last year a new manager isn't going to change that, would be shocked if Martinez doesn't bench him captain or not hes just everything Maguire isn't especially in ETH's system.

 

[devilish]

No other player in the squad would get this much scrutiny over that goal. Maguire Caf.

What do you expect? He's the captain AND a CB. So if the defence is a mess and look clueless then he'll have to shoulder some of the responsibility himself. In my opinion our defence has 3 problems

a- a lack of a DM
b- most of our defenders (including Maguire) are not suited to play a high line and quite frankly are not good enough
c- We lack leaders (and people with some football brains) at the back. The only one we have is Varane and he's a crock

 

[Tavern in the town]

yeah let's judge a person's career from few months at a club whose team was assembled by an amateur and whose performances had train wrecked way before he came. Sure Klopp and Tuchel rate him highly but they fail in comparison to your good self.

Why does it matter if Klopp and Tuchel rate him? Pep rates Maguire and bid £70m for him but I assume you don’t care about that.

 

[devilish]

Why does it matter if Klopp and Tuchel rate him? Pep rates Maguire and bid £70m for him but I assume you don’t care about that.

I believe that they know a bit of football more then you do. Pep had burnt more defenders than a Ferrari F1 car had burnt tyres. Let's say that choosing defenders is not his strength

 

[Crashoutcassius]

So its everything's fault apart from Maguire's....ok. For the record I don't think that Maguire is shit. In my opinion he'll excel in a deep line and surrounded by players who can do the thinking on his behalf. Unfortunately we haven't played that game for a year and there's no chance in hell that ETH will revert to that game.

I don't think it's anyone fault but Maguire. I think a centre back being slow isn't that relevant in a modern pressing game. I don't think five mins in a pre season proves either of our points. But you have you mind made up so it is a confirmation of your prior view.