So your issue is that he's captain. I'll let you in on a little secret. Who wears the armband is a bigger deal to the fans than it is to the players. Leaders are going to lead whether they wear the armband or not. But for popularity sakes, I agree that Maguire should give up the armband if he ever wants to get the fans on his side
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
So your issue is that he's captain. I'll let you in on a little secret. Who wears the armband is a bigger deal to the fans than it is to the players. Leaders are going to lead whether they wear the armband or not. But for popularity sakes, I agree that Maguire should give up the armband if he ever wants to get the fans on his side
And had he switched and went to Pukki (the guy Elanga left and Pogba couldn't be bothered to mark), instead of Pukki getting the ball, the other guy would have and been able to make the same pass for an easy tap in. My god, stop the scapegoating. There are 5 Norwich players and 7 United players (plus De Gea) and you want to blame the goal on one of the only guys who is actually marking someone????
Whilst not entirely disagreeing with this scapegoat thing, I think it’s realistically reached a stage of begrudging acceptance. This is largely due to the board taking a huge gamble on him being an £80m hit, to the point they’re so reliant on him to prove his worth rather than conceding that it was very likely to be an appalling deal that many of us have now come to realize.
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Read what I wrote. All I am saying is stop acting like him blindly following was a good thing. Like I wrote noone is excusing Elanga, Pogba and Dalot. Obviously Maguire isn't to blame for the goal alone.
He isn't to blame for the goal at all. Anyone blaming him is doing it because they are looking for a reason to. Had Maguire left his man to pick up Pukki, they would have just passed it to the man he was marking and people here would be saying "what a joke Maguire is. Stick with your man"...
Obviously we paid too much for him(not his fault), but transfer fee aside, he is our best central defender along with Varane. You don't drop Maguire because he doesn't live up to his price tag. You drop him because there are better options, and there just aren't any. Lindelof is a decent 3rd option (imagine how crazy TheCaf would be going now if that was Maguire "marking" Pukki on their second goal), Baily is a train wreck that fans have romanticized to make him way better than he really is (4th option at best) and Jones, though better than many would give him credit for, gets injured as soon as he finds any sort of form...
Too much fun
We mostly see eye-to-eye on the first goal Sadler but I can't quite agree that Maguire has no culpability at all.
I quite agree with you that there was nothing wrong with him following Rashica. Essentially, either decision he could've made in that scenario would have left somebody free in a dangerous area, and that is the result of a complete absence of support for the defence from the midfield. This has been a recurring theme for United this season.
The one criticism I would make of Maguire, which is why I don't think he can be completely absolved of any blame, would be that I do think he over-committed to Rashica. Ultimately, I'm not sure it would have mattered because Pukki would have the space to run into anyway, but I think Maguire could have taken a step or two less when following his man and been in a better position to turn when the ball is played through to Pukki.
Ultimately, it is ridiculous that some people view him as predominantly to blame for that goal though. There are at least three players (Dalot, Elanga, Pogba and then one of Sancho or Lingard for not tracking Dowell's run) who are far more culpable for that goal. Hopefully, under Ten Hag, this situation should improve because his sides are typically quite fluid with all eleven players seeing it as their responsibility to contribute both to attacking and defending.
Of course not. Sticking with your man when he runs to the corner flag and you leave a massive hole for their best striker to run into the penaltyarea in makes zero sense. It's a idiotic move and typical Maguire. Like so many people have tried to explain: he works in a system where he doesn't have to think beyond "mark your target".
He is reaching Phil Jones level of unlucky with this nonsense.
Not sure if he did a whlle pile wrong yesterday. But, for several of the chances Norwich it's all too noticeable how bad his decision making is and how slow he is to turn and react.
Even with a better midfield in front of him I don't see a way the club can continue to carry such a slow player who makes so many questionable positional decisions.
Even with a better midfield in front of him I don't see a way the club can continue to carry such a slow player who makes so many questionable positional decisions.
I have seen it time and time again and it is not all on Maguire. It is on a lot of players including Pogba. But Maguire did go too tight on the Norwich player and went to areas he did not have to be in. Lindelof and Telles were put in a position where they were outnumbered.
He is the scapegoat and it’s a difficult position to comeback from as he’s also the captain and cost £80m. If he manages to bounce back from this, it’ll be one of the best turnarounds ever.
However I think the horse has bolted when it comes to fan opinion and general opinion. The whole defence needs a rebuild next season which is kinda ridiculous considering how much has been spent on it.
However I think the horse has bolted when it comes to fan opinion and general opinion. The whole defence needs a rebuild next season which is kinda ridiculous considering how much has been spent on it.
How is he the scapegoat? The only ones criticising him are the fans. He's been completely immune from all sorts of criticism from the media. Former players/pundits making up excuses for him. 'It's his team mates, he's jet lagged, it's mental issues',... The same idiots who would criticise the likes of Martial and Pogba as soon as they had a poor game have been defending the shite that has been Maguire all season now. Keane was the only one i remember who said it as it is.
I hear what you're saying and I appreciate the well thought out response that you've given compared to the norm around here. My biggest problem with Maguire taking the blame for the goal from a lot of people is that there are 7 United players (plus De Gea) against 5 Norwich players. Because we have the numbers, I have no problem with Maguire "over committing" to one player. The problem is that while Maguire is marking someone, there are too many other people who aren't. It's 5 vs 7 and the 5 get a tap in? Fingers need to be pointed at those who picked up nobody, not the one guy who did...
Yet if he switched off then the man he was marking would be free. There were 5 Norwish players and 7 United players plus De Gea yet you are expecting Maguire to mark two of their players. Do you see the problem there?
Surely no one is looking at the Pogba incident as anything but a funny ‘of course it was Maguire’ type thing, no? He wasn’t calamitous yesterday, and that in itself is something, I guess.
If he forces Pukki to play the ball out to the guy on the way to the corner there is more time to lock them down instead of letting Pukki run straight in to the penalty area.
You’d think so but there’s definitely a vibe of “look how bad Maguire is, he even injures his own players haha”
Look at the picture posted. 7 players vs 5 and you are still blaming the one guy who is marking someone. The person to blame here is either Elanga for marking Pukki and then ball watching when Pukki passes it and walks right past him, or Pogba who is supposed to be the DM and is marking nobody. Then who is Lindelof marking. I repeat...it is 5 vs 7 and they got a tap in. Maguire was marking someone. So what is everyone else doing? It is a team game and you want to blame the guy who is actually doing his job and then try and claim you aren't scapegoating him? Give your head a shake. If you can't see how obvious the agenda is against Maguire then I don't know what to say. I personally thought this was one of Maguire's poorer games of late (where he has actually been good despite the agenda), but he wasn't poor because of this play. I can guarantee you 10000000% that had Maguire switched and picked up Pukki and Norwich passed the ball to the guy Maguire was marking and he crossed it for a tap in, TheCaf would be going off about how Maguire is a tool for leaving his man...
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Personality when I play CB Ive always been told that the unit should shift across the pitch to be closer to the wing with the ball. In this instance the gap between Lindelof and Maguire is far too big. Lindelof should be positioned much further over with Telles shifting along as well. It’s actually completely basic yet Lindelof is stood in no mans land leaving a huge gap in the centre. Maguire is right to challenge his man out wide.
Honestly agree with the other posts in here. He’s being scapegoated in a massive way. He’s not been good this season but also been nowhere near as bad as made out and frankly he’s a victim of this social media age where people just like to lump in on something they barely understand.
I’d chalk that up to the collective spiritual black hole we all find ourselves in as fans.You’d think so but there’s definitely a vibe of “look how bad Maguire is, he even injures his own players haha”
That pic is deceptive. At that moment in time, it is 6 vs 5. (You cannot count the keeper). What happens next is Pukki gets away from Elanga. Maguire gets caught with his man way out wide, Pogba is not coming back and suddenly Lindelof and Telles are left with 2 v 3 situation. Should Maguire got have caught with the Norwich player? No. An experienced player like him should know not to be dragged out so wide by a player who did not have the ball. Was it Pogba's fault for not coming back? Absolutely. If he had been in the box, neither Lindelof nor Telles would have to make that decision as who to mark and who to let go. Dalot also should not have let his man get away so easily. It is a combination of poor decision making and all of the 4 , Pogba, Dalot, Elanga and Maguire have to bear the responsibility . I would say that Maguire, the least responsible of the players mentioned.
Agree with this.
As the move develops, United's back 4 are perfectly positioned. You've got around 8 yards between each defender and those nearest to the ball with a proactive body position.
Then Elanga falls asleep which causes a problem. Pogba should drop in to help, but he rarely reads danger well so he lets the situation unfold. And central to all of these issues is the lack of leadership and communication. This isn't Maguire's fault as he's on the blind side and doesn't know what's going on around him. But Lindelof, De Gea and Telles should be pulling in midfielders to help out. Lindelof should haul Pogba back into the defensive line as the deepest player who can cover. Telles the same. But defensively it's a shitshow from the midfield on 3 counts, (1) Elanga not tracking his man, (2) Pogba ball-watching, (3) Lingard letting his full-back deal with a 2v1. At no stage does Pogba scan the defensive line to see if there are any issues. Lingard looks once at the start of the move when he sees Telles and Lindelof playing man-to-man, then doesn't look again until Pukki is surging into the box. Really poor.
You are absolutely correct. It's gotten to the point now that whenever the other team scores our "supporters" are looking for reason to blame Maguire rather than looking at what actually happened...
Agree with this.
As the move develops, United's back 4 are perfectly positioned. You've got around 8 yards between each defender and those nearest to the ball with a proactive body position.
Then Elanga falls asleep which causes a problem. Pogba should drop in to help, but he rarely reads danger well so he lets the situation unfold. And central to all of these issues is the lack of leadership and communication. This isn't Maguire's fault as he's on the blind side and doesn't know what's going on around him. But Lindelof, De Gea and Telles should be pulling in midfielders to help out. Lindelof should haul Pogba back into the defensive line as the deepest player who can cover. Telles the same. But defensively it's a shitshow from the midfield on 3 counts, (1) Elanga not tracking his man, (2) Pogba ball-watching, (3) Lingard letting his full-back deal with a 2v1. At no stage does Pogba scan the defensive line to see if there are any issues. Lingard looks once at the start of the move when he sees Telles and Lindelof playing man-to-man, then doesn't look again until Pukki is surging into the box. Really poor.
You are absolutely correct, but that doesn't go with the narrative around here. Too may people around here think they know what they're talking about when they really don't. They just want to blame Maguire whether it's his fault or not. Nice to see there are at least a few people here who still know how to read the game and put the blame where it is meant to be and don't let their agenda's get the better of them. Thank you...
The defense has been built and rebuilt a few times. First Rio and Vidic weren't good enough anymore. Then Evans. Then Jones and Smalling weren't good enough. The Blind. Then Maguire. Who's next? Varane? When are people going to realize that the one constant during all these defensive rebuilds is the guy behind them? Sure, he makes some great saves, but he is average to poor in every other aspect of his position and with him in goal, we will never be great defensively...
Wow. So ddg is mindcontrolling maguire to make all those brainfarts moment.
And you're saying maguire being scapegoated?
Not doing anything wrong is a low bar for top 3 CB. Most top cb didnt do wrong in so many games it's the norm. Occasional brainfart moment are maybe 2 or 3 times a season.
The rest they're beaten by position fair and square. Not tripping or missing your man or charging forward early and miss the interception.
I'd think this is all obvious.
WTF are you talking about? Mind controlling? Next...
He is just so devoid of confidence it's untrue, he needs protecting, hopefully he will get that with a dm purchase.
On another note, is it just me, or did he look geniunley pissed off when Ronnie scored that free kick?
On another note, is it just me, or did he look geniunley pissed off when Ronnie scored that free kick?
To be honest, this sustained level of abuse he gets must be affecting his mental health by now?
I can’t remember seeing a defender look so confused and indecisive as often as Maguire does.
I can’t remember seeing a defender look so confused and indecisive as often as Maguire does.
The pressure and the scapegoating has gotten in his head, and I am not sure he will recover from it. He was never that good, but he was much better than this average to tragic CB he is doing an impression for a year now. Captain role should be removed and bench him for a few games, maybe that will clear his head a bit.
I agree, but he's been so bad this season, that just not really doing anything wrong is now seen as being a good performance from him.
He's not a top 3 centre back though. Not even close. He's way too slow at running, turning and reacting, his positioning is awful, his reading of the game and decision making is even worse.
He was never good enough, never worth 80m and never should have been made captain.
I think it's a combination of the two, Maguire's constant clownery spreads unease and daves complete refusal to leave his line and lack of ability in possession makes it worse.
That shit against Madrid the other week being a prime example.
Harry wouldn't release the ball, and chose to turn himself into trouble until Dave was the only option, who of course just shanked it out of play.
Bang on again!
And you talk about scapegoat.....
Or it could be, the advanced age of Rio and Vidic when they played with DDG, Evans was just ok, Jones and Smalling couldn't get off the treatment table, Blind was decent and Varane has only been here for less than a season and has played well when not injured?
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