A player with common sense stops appealing for offsides since there is VAR that checks things to the millimeter. Maguire has been known to do this though, a good example is against Atalanta in the group stages. The man is not 1000% focused on his job, he wants to be a lino as well
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I was about to ask you the same thing. “One of the best in Europe…”
To be fair. DeLigt is not the quickest defender and he made it work. Maybe with some coaching, but Maguire is not the best at defending 1vs1
Its clearly picking the part of last season where his form picked up. And he wasn’t on of the best in Europe at any point whilst at United. That includes his best periods of form too.
Last season he had an average season. A poor start and then picked up. The table at the end of the season makes things look alot better than they were. We often came back from behind to win games and at home didn’t pick up many points again partly due to conceeding unneccesary goals (Maguire was a part of that)
He played well for England, to be honest he seems more comfortable in an England shirt probably as they have 2 holding midfielders sheilding the defence, still he deserves credit for his display in the tournament. Should we hand Pogba a new bumper contract based on his tournament performance?
In European competition we were poor defensively. Got through the quarters and semis despite being defensively poor. We were playing Europa League and not Champions League by the way.
What matters is how he has performed at United, he has been average, to poor to relatiavely good. He has never shown form that puts him as “One of the best in Europe”
Anyway he is not our worst CB, but if we want to improve the 11 then he is the CB that needs upgrading its quite simple
Thanks for a football related post which provokes some thinking. You’re right, if he is allowed to step up and be more aggressive (with an insurance of a midfielder dropping deep), he might do well.
He is actually already allowed to do this by the way
Just ignore these silly little facts that go against your agenda
This is your evidence? what about the last 60-70 games for United?!!!
If we go by this, Lukaku is one of the best in the world!
How about the fact that we defensively fell apart when he got injured at the end of last season?
Because we were defensively brilliant with him at the start of last season?
Because we didn't defensively fall apart at the end of the previous season with him?
At the very start of last season everyone was shocking for the lack of pre season, literally the only difference in our good performances becoming so bad at the end was an injury to one man
We werent talking about usefullness. He said maguire is our best CB. In what world.
For all we know maguire plays with injuries and might be the reason he is shit. Getting himself on the pitch cost us the season.
He is on the pitch because Ole chose him to be the fkin captain. And you cant have the captain on the bench day in day out
You mean those 2/3 games? Is this the sample pool we are using here? What about the entirety of this season or Sept & October (1-6 vs Spurs), Nov and Dec (7 goals conceded in a week and out of the UCL) last season?
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If you can bench Ronaldo like Ralf has done, you can bench any player. He plays because the manager thinks he's the best option, as very likely Ten Hag will too.
Varane has done next to nothing in a red shirt to be rated undisputedly our best.
Did we, or did we begin to fall apart when we started re-introducing De Gea to the team?
Just playing devils advocate here, I have made the same argument about Maguire that generally speaking we are a much better team with him in than out.
I don’t think he’s that bad, and would improve immensely with no captaincy, but it’s mind boggling we spent £175m on him and Pogba. We could buy 5 key signings with a clued up manager for that
He was very good last season, from that Spurs game onwards (and the international break that followed). He scored against Newcastle in the first game back and he was good thereafter.
You won't believe so because you've already decided he's not good enough, which is fine, but don't try and re-write history. He was instrumental in the run which took us to the top of the league and him missing the last few games was a big part of why we fell apart and didn't win the Europa League.
and what about the 3/4 months before xmas i mentioned? Knocked out the UCL and dropping large amount of points which could have won us the league. Maybe look at the history around this period - some pretty comprehensive thumpings - this is nearly half the season we are talking about here.
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And this is exactly why we find ourselves in the dire position we are in - doing the same things and expecting different results. 2 managers now have played him and payed a heavy price, im hoping Ten Hag is astute enough to bring in a new CB to replace him and move him on - it remains to be seen, but going by the rumours - i wouldn't be surprised if he brought in a new CB.
What i love about Pep and Klopp is they are ruthless and that ruthlessness has made them very successful managers. If a player was in the kind of form Maguire was in for 4/5 games they would drop them and in many cases look to move them out the club - and just when you think they have a good CB pairing, they go even further by bringing in even better players (i.e Dias for Laporte and Konate for Matip) - they don't seem to settle for anything less than perfection. Of course we need to strengthen other areas - but for me, CB is vital, things went up a level when they brought in VVD and Dias and even with Chelsea - Rudiger has been colossal.
Or two managers have played without a competent DM, a keeper rooted to his line, a forward line that doesn't work hard and paid a heavy price. Trying to pin it all on Maguire is ridiculous. If Ten Hag does play him will you accept that you might be wrong? A manager who I understand likes his centre backs to be strong in possession.
Centre back is the last position in the this squad which needs addressing in the summer. Maybe we'll ship out Bailly and get Timber who some have suggested can also play at right back where our options are absolutely dire.
Its not about accepting if he plays him or not - the proof will ultimately be in the results and if they are much better with Maguire in the team and we win something then i'll hold my hands up. I would love nothing more than for this to happen - but i just don't see it.
Of course, i mentioned it's not solely down to him - but you have to start at the weakest link, and for me it's Maguire.
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I addressed that he was poor from the start of the season until the October international break. Which was about 6 weeks. The whole team was shocking in Istanbul and against Leipzig. I don’t know what thumpings you’re referring to other than Spurs and I don’t know why the team performing badly is automatically seen as his fault.
Anyway, we’re derailing this thread onto last season. He’s not been good enough this year, but he’s not alone in that and he’s not the root of all of our problems
Was longer than that.
thumped at OT by Palace, humiliated by Spurs and a coloassal feck up in the Istanbul game. Then conceding 7 goals in 1 week in December.
He wouldn't, he can't play a high line and his reading of the game is mindboggling.
Our season started on 19th September against Palace. We lost to Spurs on 4th October, so lets include the international break and say he was bad for 4 weeks.
Yes, he was poor against Istanbul, but the entire team were. You're effectively citing 1 poor game from October onwards.
December, I assume you're referring to the CL games against Leipzig and PSG. Again, poor, but was he really to blame?
Just going around in circles here - as our £80m captain, main CB and basically undroppable - i think he shoulders some of the blame don't you?
Some, yes. Not all.
Also, you've done what everyone does when slating Maguire, quoted the price that he didn't set. Anyway, we disagree, it's fine.
I never said it was all solely his fault.
He didn''t set his price - buy you pay a fee based on players potential, and he's just not lived up to it, and at 29 i don't think he ever will.
Because he's fit and available which automatically makes him better than Varane or any defender who only makes half the matchday squads.
And he's better than Lindelof.
Said this after last weekend but Maguire's thread was very busy after the game. Not a word said in Lindelof's. Yet any neutral watching would have said Lindelof had a poorer game than Maguire.
Some of it is moaning for the sake of it. The knives are out for Maguire now. Likely impossible for him to change opinions at this stage.
I have made this point over and over again but it's a waste of time. When we lose, it's Maguire's fault, simple as that.
The facts don't back any of this up of course, in his entire United career our win rate drops from 52% with Maguire to 25% without.
Still posters clamour for him to be dropped and come up with all manner of conspiracy theories as to why he isn't....when as you suggest, Occam's Razor leads to the simple conclusion that Maguire is never dropped by United or England because the professionals in-charge of picking those teams believe he is better than the alternatives.
Similarly, when some nobody like van der Vaart criticises Maguire, it's headline news. When Rooney goes on MNF and says he's been 'world class' for England and says he is a fan of Maguire, means nothing....despite, you would think, Rooney knowing better than anybody what a good CB looks like, having played extensively with Rio, Vidic, Terry and Sol Campbell
The team is dysfunctional and our CBs have the hardest job in the league right now. Playing a high-line with basically no press and no organisation ahead of them. I'd love, absolutely love for Maguire and Ruben Dias to swap for two months....we'd see then that our problems relate to shape, structure and work-rate.
From memory when he has tried to do it this season it’s when United are already on the back foot dropping and then he would make an attempt to step up that just leaves him and his teammates in no man’s land. So yeah he does it and it has gotten this team in trouble but if the team as a whole are playing much higher and it lets him be more proactive instead of reactive then it might suit him.
This myth keeps being parroted here. Our defense wasn't water tight before Maguire's injury. In the second leg of our knockout tie against Roma in the EL Maguire was dire for instance. That was just before his injury in May
Roy Keane thinks Maguire is shit. Does his opinion hold weight with you as much as Rooney's? Vidic and Rio don't particulary rate him either and have both voiced their concerns
I think you'll find Roy Keane rates very few players in our squad if any.
We all know Maguire isn't good enough to be a starting CB for a club intent on challenging for the league title. That's a given. The problem is, he's the best option we've got right now. Who're we going to replace him with, Lindelof? Alike for like replacement on current form, significantly weaker at their best. Bailly is a liability, Jones is never fit and Tunazebe should have been moved on a long time ago. There is no one else.
We'll need to upgrade him eventually, but it's not a necessity right now. Both the midfield and attack are of far more importance.
His point was about posters picking and choosing which pundit to believe based on what suits them. It's not about Rooney necessarily being right.
Your point about the Roma game. It's one game. Those saying(includes me) that we struggled defensively without him are using that entire spell of games. You're countering it with one game. Does that sound reasonable? I don't think anybody is saying we've never struggled defensively with Maguire. The point is that we've seen that back 4 without him for a prolonged spell and it got worse.
Well it wasn't a prolonged spell was it? it was a couple of games - with the last league game playing a second string before the UEL final that he wouldn't have played in anyway. 9th May - 26th May - that's not a prolonged spell.
True it wasn't, I got mixed up with time out.
But I still think it was clear as day that the backline and team missed him in what was the biggest game of the season.
@Cassidy
Would also help if he has a Matic like figure dropping in to cover consistently.
Our team has many issues. I too feel that we need to decide how we are going to play and then buy players to suit.
No proper DM, a CB that’s a teeny bit slow to turn, a goalkeeper who’s not a natural sweeper, fullbacks usually asked to go forwards...there is no cohesive structure.
And strikers with equally terrible conversion rates.
Safe to say that King Eric has his work cut out.
No your premise was that we badly missed him for a large chunk of the season - when its not the case at all he only missed 4-5 games, and as others have pointed out - we weren't exactly watertight before that small period of game without him. People are making out that he missed a few months or something - very odd.
Yeah I know, I just said in my previous post I got how long he was out for wrong. So my argument was incorrect.
It's just not though is it. The weakest link is quite clearly the player who is very good at one aspect of his job but is statistically the worst player in the league the two of the other main aspects of of his job and bottom third level at the other critical aspect. The final crucial aspect of his game in terms of communication is non-existent too but there is no statistical way to measure that.
People can say what they like about Maguire (and this goes for any of our defenders frankly) but he's not the worst centre back in the league (or even bottom half of the league level) in any aspect of his game, such certainly not the fundamentals such as tackling, heading, passing, intercepting & communicating. And that's despite him having a dreadful season.
- Status