This is why the standards have dropped so low with this club. Just get out with this "support the player" bs. These players have got so much support while they are underperforming its baffling. If you're not upto the standards, either work so hard to put in a shift or get fecked off in the summer. There should be no room for complacency.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
You have to be wumming at this point, you don’t even try to use any arguments anymore.
That's worked so well since Fergie left hasn't it? Support them no matter what, don't question anything. I'm sure they'll reward us by giving 100% at all times
Liked how he comfortably invited pressure80m rated ball playing CB
In the past supporters could limit themselves to just supporting the players because they knew very well that the club held high standards. Anyone dropping from those standards would be gone by the end of the season. That went out of the window during the Glazers era. Our scouting net was weakened (no more feeder clubs etc), the people on top are amateurs on their first job in that role (CEO, DOF, Technical director) and we're struggling to make more then 3-4 summer transfers per summer which means that we have to make due with the players we've got even though they aren't good enough. Players have noticed that as well. There's no urgency to perform simply because the club takes ages to find a buyer for them and to find a replacement after.
Then you see him plodding behind as everyone else panics trying to close the hole he left behind. That's why he does well in a back 3 it allows him to get away with it.
Exactly! These players are way too comfortable in their roles. They know they wont get any stick from the fans and the club officials are more interested in retweets and clicks.
I see this happen time and time again in football, and in life generally. The media set the narrative and they repeat a line until it becomes fact. The idea that Maguire has somehow become a poor player overnight is now so deeply entrenched in the minds of football fans that you're shouting into the void by trying to argue the opposite. In the same way that De Gea is apparently 'having a great season' or Rashford was 'a world-class talent', if something is repeated often enough, it just becomes fact.
You only have to listen to the commentary to see the evidence of this. Robbie Savage went on and on about one misplaced pass last night by Maguire before the offside goal. It happened a good 60-90 seconds before the 'goal' but still Savage banged on about it, as if it was somehow the worst, most criminal mistake he'd seen on a football pitch.
We've had a shocking season collectively as a side and people are frustrated, I get that, and they want a scapegoat. I think it helps people cognitively to have a scapegoat, because it makes them believe that the problem is easy to fix. 'If only we could get rid of that donkey Maguire, all of our problems would disappear'. Unfortunately, virtually every single player in our squad has underperformed this year, and the reason for that is because we are a poorly organised, dysfunctional team. We've assembled a real mess of a squad and really allowed it to drift, without any clear direction for several years now under various managers.
I can only really think of a few occasions this season where Maguire was genuinely bad. Leicester being an obvious standout, albeit he was injured. I actually thought one of his poorest games was Southampton at OT, but that one goes under the radar and people prefer to focus on the hammerings we have taken by teams like Liverpool and City, even though really there was absolutely nothing he could do individually about those defeats.
Most of his 'bad' performances are people taking minor details, or stuff that's just play wrong/ignorant, like his 'mistake' last night and being conned by the press and the prevailing narrative into believing that somehow he's the root of all evil and the cause of all of our problems.
Think about it logically for a second...Solskjaer picked Maguire every week. Rangnick comes in during this apparent 'horror season' for Maguire, half this forum rejoices and fully expects to see Bailly, Lindelof and Varane in the side week-in, week-out, but it doesn't happen. In fact, Maguire (and maybe Varane) is the only player Ralf hasn't dropped in his time here. You see excuses for this banded around the forum, apparently Ralf is 'scared'...which is a load of bollocks since he's clearly not scared to drop Cristiano Ronaldo!
The reason Rangnick hasn't dropped Maguire, despite the wailing and teeth-gnashing in here, is the fact is we are far better with a good CB in a dysfunctional side than slightly above average CBs (Lindelof and Bailly) in a dysfunctional side. I repeat the stat I used earlier, in his entire United career, when Maguire starts we win just over 50% of our games. When he doesn't, that figure drops to 25%. 25% Manchester United winning 1 in 4 matches is a mind-blowing statistic.
Again, people are conflating a 'poor side' with poor players. Again, Maguire is one of the first names on the team-sheet for England, picked every single week by Southgate. OK, England aren't blessed with loads of top CBs right now, but Stones plays regularly for City, Ben White plays regularly for Arsenal, Eric Dier plays regularly for Tottenham, Connor Coady plays regularly for Wolves....all of these teams are in similar league positions to us. If Maguire is this big, carthorse donkey who is the cause of all of United's problems, why does he still get picked every week for England and United?
It's simple. The reason is because Maguire is actually a very, very good CB. There's no more too it than that. I'd like people to calm down and use pure simple logic. If Maguire is that bad, why don't any one of the two international CBs we have sat on the bench play instead? Why doesn't Southgate leave him out?
To be fair, McT also the total clueless chicken in this clip. He should have moved up 5 yards to receive ball from Sancho so we can start the counter-attack and Sancho no need to pass back; then when Maguire looking for passes, he should have moved between the gap to show for the ball and provide Maguire a option to pass; then after losing the ball , he just stand there, not push up to limit the angle of the shoot , nor should check then move to cut out any routes for through-pass.
He fails to do the bare minimum on so many occasions it almost feels unreal that he's even getting paid to do this now.
His 2nd half performance was a lot better than the first, but was he atrocious in the first half, even in the second half he had moments of brainfarts but ATM were not exactly interested in attacking, so he was under less pressure.
But the first half was absolutely pathetic, simple headers with no opponent pressure, he's got at least 3 players around him who he can head it to and he heads it to the ATM player, he did that on 3 occasions in the first half, he also got unnecessarily dragged out of position for the offside ATM goal. He committed two fouls in the opposition box during set pieces.
I don't know what it is with him, I'm struggling to see what he's good at, on one hand I feel he'd look at home in this ATM team, but he also constantly heads the ball out to the opponents, I just don't think he's a good defender, and deserves criticism for his performance, as much as the scout who recommended him, the person who sanctioned his signing and the manager who made him club captain.
Edit - And the manager who continues to play him.
His 2nd half performance was a lot better than the first, but was he atrocious in the first half, even in the second half he had moments of brainfarts but ATM were not exactly interested in attacking, so he was under less pressure.
But the first half was absolutely pathetic, simple headers with no opponent pressure, he's got at least 3 players around him who he can head it to and he heads it to the ATM player, he did that on 3 occasions in the first half, he also got unnecessarily dragged out of position for the offside ATM goal. He committed two fouls in the opposition box during set pieces.
I don't know what it is with him, I'm struggling to see what he's good at, on one hand I feel he'd look at home in this ATM team, but he also constantly heads the ball out to the opponents, I just don't think he's a good defender, and deserves criticism for his performance, as much as the scout who recommended him, the person who sanctioned his signing and the manager who made him club captain.
Edit - And the manager who continues to play him.
Since you ask....Maguire isn't 'rushing into midfield', he's going in with the forward, to stop them being able to receive the ball, turn and run at the back four/thread a pass through the lines.
Football is not played in straight lines. One of the most common and frequent misunderstandings on this forum is that the defence should be a straight line, which is just totally incorrect and if you think about it, just not how any team plays. How easy would it be to just thread passes into your forwards if the opposition back four just stood there in a straight line like Subbutteo players?
I actually can't even begin to fathom the logic which blames Maguire for that goal last night. Maguire was probably the only defender in that situation who did his part successfully, getting into Greizmann and forcing the ball backwards.
Terrible! Imagine passing the ball to his GK?!? What IS he thinking? Boot it into the stands man! If in doubt kick it out! Imagine thinking you can roll a simple pass to your GK and he might pass it to another one of your teammates? What planet is this guy on?
That's fine, but Maguire gets turned and outpaced far too easily for it too be effective.
If you look at the difference between Varane following the attacker and Maguire it's night and day. Varane is tight and if he does get turned he fouls the attacker straight away, Maguire either gets turned too easily or is too late to get tight and is caught in no mans land and it turns the situation into a dangerous problem. There's a reason Maguire was hooked over Varane.
And Varane had a poor game himself, what does that say about Maguire ?
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He is supposed to be the ball playing defender no? Guy shits himself every time he has the ball. And literally most teams seem to know this and target him.And his long passes more often than not take the ball out of play. He’s slow, error prone. His only attribute is that he’s decent at headers. Sounds like a 20-25M player to me. Never an 80M player, never United captain material.
And I swear, this guy has wasted half of our corners because he just fouls someone in the box.
And I swear, this guy has wasted half of our corners because he just fouls someone in the box.
I thought he was good up until the goal. Then he just lost his head.
Was playing some really nice passes up until that point - and then he went for a poor cross field ball, which went out for a throw in.
Was playing some really nice passes up until that point - and then he went for a poor cross field ball, which went out for a throw in.
80m rated ball playing CB
You could see he was praying the ball wouldn’t be passed back to him and then proceeds to make it even harder for himself. If Felix pressed him with a bit more conviction that would have been 2-0
Maguire needs a new club. Newcastle would be ideal to get his confidence back up and perhaps become half-decent again
Most people aren't saying that tbf. People have pointed out what Maguire lacks at this level since before he even joined. Has nothing to do with the media, who if anything have given him a lot of leeway to this point.
Brilliant purchase by Ole. Terrific captain. Like a finest cocktail made of perfect ingredients blended in immaculate proportions. Any buyers?
This is a very good post and as an oppo pretty much how I see Maguire. Was he worth 80 million? probably not, but he wouldn't have been far off and the value of his transfer is not his to decide.
Yes, he's had a drop off in form this season, but so have just about everyone in your squad bar Sancho. Your entire squad has dipped this season, who knows why, but it is certainly not just Maguire.
Is he the cause of all your issues? definitely not, you are worse without him.
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Maguire got hooked over Varane because we were about to start throwing bodies forward and Varane is a much better 'recovery defender' than Maguire because of his speed.
What I see in Varane and Maguire is two good CBs who would be fine anywhere else, suffering for the dysfunctions of a poorly performing side. There's no hiding place at CB in a poor side, it really is a thankless task, especially in a side that is scrutinised to the nth degree like United
Yes of course. Varane’s poor effort started that chance imo then Maguire finished it by scoring an own goal.
Leicester City
goals conceded 2015-2017 (two seasons before Maguire joined): 1.30 per game
goals conceded 2017-2019 (two seasons with Maguire): 1.42 per game
goals conceded 2019-2021 (two seasons after Maguire left): 1.20 per game
Man Utd
goals conceded 2016-2019 (3 seasons before Maguire joined): 0.97 per game
goals conceded 2019-2022 (3 seasons with Maguire): 1.14 per game
In the mean time, Jonny Evans, who we sold at 3M, concedes 114 premier league goals out of 100 premier league games, i.e. 1.14 per game, playing for Leicester.
Enough explanation.
goals conceded 2015-2017 (two seasons before Maguire joined): 1.30 per game
goals conceded 2017-2019 (two seasons with Maguire): 1.42 per game
goals conceded 2019-2021 (two seasons after Maguire left): 1.20 per game
Man Utd
goals conceded 2016-2019 (3 seasons before Maguire joined): 0.97 per game
goals conceded 2019-2022 (3 seasons with Maguire): 1.14 per game
In the mean time, Jonny Evans, who we sold at 3M, concedes 114 premier league goals out of 100 premier league games, i.e. 1.14 per game, playing for Leicester.
Enough explanation.
Thanks appreciate a calm, reasoned opinion....and just in-case you didn't know this already, you're about to become VERY unpopular in here
I don't mind that personally, I used to get absolute dogs abuse for daring to suggest Rashford might not be as good as Kylian Mbappe. I could tell when I'd said something about Rashford because I'd wake up to 15 notifications calling me an idiot
Quality player. Well worth the 16m we paid.
I guess tactics, managers and other players don't have any relation to these stats then no??
He's fecking awful.
One hundred per cent this.
He is still the best defender at the club, and we definitely miss him when he doesn't start.
He hasn't been good at times this season, but my god he has definitely not been as bad as some on here make out.
The mental gymnastics some on here perform to blame nearly every goal on him is alarming and baffling.
I guess tactics, managers and other players don't have any relation to these stats then no??
Don't you understand statistics mate?
Liverpool lost 1-7 to Aston Villa with van Dijk in the side last season but kept a clean sheet against them with Phil Babb at CB in 1996....ergo Babb > van Dijk
It's simple, undeniable, rock-solid logic that you just can't argue with
Wow. Imagine watching every United match this season and coming yo the conclusion that Maguire is our best defender
Whilst I am at it, I thought it was a disgrace that Maguire was jeered last night. In fact, it was the only part of the game that really riled me.
I always thought United fans were a little different. I thought we had a bit of a siege mentality, 'us vs the World'. It's fashionable to hammer United, it sells paper and generates click and engagements. Our players get it from all angles as it is, they don't need it from their own so-called 'supporters'. I'll never, ever jeer or boo any player who tries, good or bad.
If you don't rate Maguire, fine. I think you're wrong, but fine. To jeer one of our players, for no obvious reason I can think of, is just not what I expect at all from this fanbase. It's so poor.
I always thought United fans were a little different. I thought we had a bit of a siege mentality, 'us vs the World'. It's fashionable to hammer United, it sells paper and generates click and engagements. Our players get it from all angles as it is, they don't need it from their own so-called 'supporters'. I'll never, ever jeer or boo any player who tries, good or bad.
If you don't rate Maguire, fine. I think you're wrong, but fine. To jeer one of our players, for no obvious reason I can think of, is just not what I expect at all from this fanbase. It's so poor.
Exactly this. Ferguson never « supported » the players. If you didn’t perform you were gone. Now we are keeping players you don’t give a sh*t about performing for this club but we should support them.
He'd do well at a WHU. How much could be get for him?
What do you except about the fanbase ? To throw away they hard win money and to support players who take their money while not giving sh*t about the club or performing ?
Players have had it too good for too long here. It’s time they take some responsibility.
By the way Maguire is championship level but I am sure you will like the club to go down so you can still support.
Siege mentality is about the manager and players. Do you think this players have siege mentality ? They are licking to the press like cry babies.
If only that. Players can turn around the guy like he is a big training cone ! Captain material !
I guess tactics, managers and other players don't have any relation to these stats then no??
1. Leicester's goals conceded increased after he joined Leicester
2. Leicester's goals conceded decreased after he left Leicester
3. Man Utd's goals conceded increased after he joined Man Utd
if you think external factors (other teammates, managers, tactics) can explain 3 changes above you are just biased
He is an overrated player who has been exposed at a big club and don’t have the mentality to recover a decent level.
New contract incoming as I am speaking : we should protect his value by giving him 300k a week.
He can be usually found fouling the opponent when we are in their box, ruining a good attack or goal. Now he's even fouling our own players. Just a liability all round.
I think I’ve said this before but it’s these huge troughs of form that bother me. We bought a centre half at the absolute top of the market and the talk around him was that he was a rock solid guy, leadership material etc. and yet he goes into these funks at least once a season. And not for two or three games, but two or three months. We just got this one badly wrong.
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