so glad he scored and we got the win too, will be huge for his confidence which is gonna be key to him getting his form back
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I'm one of his biggest critics but last game he did alright. Certainly far better than Shaw and AWB. It remains to be seen whether he could fit into a team that is looking to play high pressing and high defensive line though.
I don't think you can analysis a defender by stats like this... for example, you don't want your CB to make a lot of tackles, because that will mean he has put himself into a position to do so. You probably just want nothing to be happened to you defence, as everything is being well covered.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Also disagree with "Tackle = bad positioning" myth but this isn't the thread for it.
Well, tackle does not equal to bad positioning of course, but for a CB particularly, you don't want him to make so many tackles in a match, because he would probably be the last outfield player to prevent an attack move under most situation. Making a tackle would means he is potentially causing exposure to one on one situation against his keeper - and you don't want that to happen alot during a game.
That also means CB is aggressive and goes to win the ball instead of back peddling and looking for more support. Varane is aggressive CB and always goes for tackles, Lindelof is more passive defender who back peddles and looks to buy more time. There is no right or wrong, as long as the goal is achieved.
For a team that plays high line or more attacking, CBs usually deal with 1v1. So it's a choice for a CB on how to deal with the threat.
Which is why tackling stats doesn't tell the whole story for CB. I personally think usually the more tackles CB does, the more risk he is put his team under... or sometimes its unavoidable, his team defence could be shite and he has to make those tackles as last resort.
With a holding midfielder, maybe. But a holding midfielder wouldn't improve his turning speed and slow acceleration.
Yeah, these stats say nothing. That's what I said.
Again disagree about the other part that "more tackles means more risk"
My god, it's almost as if you have replaced the word 'Goldbridge' with 'agenda'. It's quite troubling.
Well the other part is aim only at CB. Anyway, let's agree to disagree then.
Now you're just picking a few stats to suit your argument. I used all stats. you're worse than Goldbridge. And besides, who gives a f*ck about Liverpool players. I'm talking about our players and in particular, how one gets scapegoated unfairly
Who gives a feck about Liverpool players
.When logic falls flat, come up with any random shit. I used all defensive stats, not team stats like cleansheets which was ruined by Maguire in the games Lindelof played. Where did you use all stats? Did you show the stats which showed how many times Maguire was out of position or played everyone onside by being the deepest defender? Did you show the stats which showed how many times Maguire was caught on the ball in dangerous position? All you have used is some meaningless stats which shows nothing.
So you must be Maguire's mum or Goldbridge's ex-GF. Your obsession with Maguire and Goldbridge is very unhealthy. I haven't watched Goldbridge videos except the clips posted but going by your posts, he can't be worse than you.
Who gives a feck about Liverpool players
I used all defensive stats, not team stats like cleansheets which was ruined by Maguire in the games Lindelof played. Where did you use all stats? Did you show the stats which showed how many times Maguire was out of position or played everyone onside by being the deepest defender? Did you show the stats which showed how many times Maguire was caught on the ball in dangerous position? All you have used is some meaningless stats which shows nothing.
So you must be Maguire's mum or Goldbridge's ex-GF. Your obsession with Maguire and Goldbridge is very unhealthy. I haven't watched Goldbridge videos except the clips posted but going by your posts, he can't be worse than you.
I used all the stats that were available on that page. I didn't just pick the ones that fit my agenda
No point debating with her. She's probably Maguire mom or his wife. You can see all her history post in this thread. If Maguire scored an own goal to the net she will justify it by saying De Gea sucks and Ronaldo make him score the own goalWho gives a feck about Liverpool players
I used all defensive stats, not team stats like cleansheets which was ruined by Maguire in the games Lindelof played. Where did you use all stats? Did you show the stats which showed how many times Maguire was out of position or played everyone onside by being the deepest defender? Did you show the stats which showed how many times Maguire was caught on the ball in dangerous position? All you have used is some meaningless stats which shows nothing.
So you must be Maguire's mum or Goldbridge's ex-GF. Your obsession with Maguire and Goldbridge is very unhealthy. I haven't watched Goldbridge videos except the clips posted but going by your posts, he can't be worse than you.
I'M BLOODY DEAD!!!
Entirely agree with you and have tried to explain this previously for both Maguire and AWB.
Tackling does not = good defender.
It is quite often result of poor positioning.
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I think its neither this or that.
Remember Heinze, and also AWB, they are clearly more "aggressive" in tackling, but they are also poor in positioning. Arguing being, if they have "positioned" themselves well most of the times, they don't really have to make many of those tackling.
Then I also remember some of the best CB in the world at present (VVD) and in the past (Baresi etc), they don't really have to make alot of tacklings in the game.
Of course I am not saying tackling = bad positioning, but most often when you are in bad positioning, there's more need for you to make a tackle to compensate for that.
Won’t happen but he shouldn’t start tomorrow. It should be Varane and Lindelof. They play deep and Lindelof is far superior at carrying the ball out of the back and picking the right pass, which could prove very useful against them.
No, it's not true. Teams play high line which means they deal with 1v1 duels a lot. You can't position to win the ball when the player is dribbling at you, I mean not always. In deep defensive line, you have plenty of cover but in high line, CBs deal with 1v1 a lot.
Also FBs deal with 1v1 with wingers, with wingers trying to take on FBs. It's not problem with positioning, it's just that winger is dribbling at you and one way to win the possession is tackle the winger. AWB winning tackle doesn't mean it's bad positioning, it means he is very good at dealing 1v1 situation against winger, he wins the ball where most FBs just try to step back and let winger dribble past them easily.
The team with highest defence line in the league, City, all their CB only made less than 1 tackle per game, which is considered low.
Dias = 1 tackle per game
Laporte = 1 tackle per game
Stone = 0.4 tackle per game
Look, I agree high defence line will deal more 1 vs 1 situation, but they don't always have to be tackles. And I agree sometimes when the defender is more aggressive, he will tend to make more tackles too. But you can't just ignore all those cases with bad positioning which force them to make more tackles too, those situations do exist. And I have no issues with full back making more tackles, but as CB, in most case, making less may be more preferable, except those case where they have to make it as the whole defence line is shite.
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I kind of agree with this.
Wan Bissaka doesn't make slide tackles due to poor positioning - I see it more as that he positions himself constantly to make a slide tackle.
That's also because they dominate 70% of the game, so their defensive actions are limited. Also most CBs in PL average 1-1.5 tackles per game. .
Chelsea
Azpi - 2.6 tackles (he played as WB and CB)
Chalobah - 2.2 tackles
Rudiger - 1.1 tackles
Silva - 1 tackle.
Liverpool
Matip - 1.4 tackles
Konate - 1.1 tackles
Also CB work as a team, one will be aggressive and other is a cover. So CB making more tackles doesn't mean he was out of position or mistake was already made, it just means he plays different role compared to his CB partner.
Also yes, it doesn't always have to be tackles. Doesn't mean tackles are wrong or a mistake. Its just how different CBs deal with situation.
Going by few best CBs of last 20 years, Puyol averaged 2 tackles per game, Vidic - 1.7, Terry 1.3 tackles, Rio, Carvalho, Pique all averaged 1.4-1.5 tackles per game. This is what we see from most of the CBs too. On an average except 2-4 CBs, every CB average 1.7 tackles or less per 90 mins.
CB averaging 1-1.5 tackles is normal, for FB it depends on so many other circumstances. I don't know why or where this tackles = bad positioning started, people just post Maldini quotes randomly when Maldini was the GOAT in slide tackles.
Exactly. He challenges winger to take him on and then tackles them. Other FBs moves back and look for support from their teammates to double team on winger.
Except AWB is known to have poor positioning though. Its one of his weakness.
Well I am not even arguing tackles = bad positioning. Not everything was black or white, and bad positioning does lead to more tackling, that's all I am arguing.
So City, the team with highest defence line in the league, their CB does have lower than average tackling stats then.
City CBs with 30% out of possession are averaging 1 tackle per game, ManUtd CBs with 40-45% out of possession average 1, 0.8, 1.8 tackles (Maguire, Lindelof, Varane)
Then you have to consider, out of 30% out of possession, how many times even opponents enter City's defensive third and how many times their CBs even need to defend. Not all CBs are called into action equally, City defend with possession and also as a team.
I agree with the point that bad positioning leads to more tackles but problem is, people imply more tackles = bad positioning. One is true, other one is not.
Sure that's the correct context, so in the end its really hard to quantify whats being derived from the possession factor, and whats being derived from the high defence line factor.
Anyway, I think what you've said here is correct and I get where you coming from. Sometimes people do just conveniently jump to such conclusion, which isn't true.
His positioning is bad when cross are played from the right wing and he gets caught out on the back post. It's also bad when we are attacking and he can get caught out with balls over the top in behind.
However, one-on-one with a winger, he is absolutely world class.
Sadly, its the only thing he's good at.
Haha. You cant just state that something like that is a myth!
But my reply i simple.
- No its not a myth its true!
Have you seen Maldini and Nesta slide tackling?
Lets retrace the discussion.
I said that slide tackling is quite often the result of poor positioning.
You answered no thats a myth.
I said as a slightly provocative answer ”no its not”.
You then try to prove that slide tackling is not often the result of poor positioning by asking if i have seen nesta or maldini.
my point isnt, and never was, that a good defender never needs to tackle (of course they do). But alot of tackling and especially slide tackling is the resultof poor positioning or having been over played by the opposition.
Its quite simple really once you dive in for a tackle you either win the ball or lose the ball in that moment. Afterwards you are on the ground or over run.
By screening/shielding or at least staying on your feet while trying to win the ball you quite likely have a second chance at the situation and there is also a chance your team can get back to cover. And if necessary you slide tackle later on.
This is basic defending.
Before continuing, lets address this.
It wasn't slide tackling, it was "tacking is often result of poor positioning"
Anyways both are myth and I have given the reasons too.
Atletico Madrid 1:1 Man Utd
he could've got tighter for the goal but it would be very hard to stop that
the cross, timing of the run and header were all perfect to be fair
the cross, timing of the run and header were all perfect to be fair
Agree, and to be fair, Rio and Scholes analysed it well. Yeah, course he could have done a little more, but its nit-picking in the face of a great goal.
Maguire looked shaky from the very start. You could see that he's totally inexperienced at this level.
He really is fast becoming one of the worst signings we have ever made.
You can bench bad signings and hid them away like bebe and obertan, but this guy costing us 80 million is going to mean he will always play, because Ed Woodward is an idiot
You can bench bad signings and hid them away like bebe and obertan, but this guy costing us 80 million is going to mean he will always play, because Ed Woodward is an idiot
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Him and Shaw together isn't the one, we looked so much more collected when Telles came on
Damn, i don't think that i watched slower player. I thought that Blanc is that but Harry is another level.
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