His form has recovered a lot than the first half of the season but he becomes even more slower. He should slim down a bit I feel. I worry he is on the path downfall at this point of his career.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Agenda? They are better at the moment than Maguire who is losing us games. There is no agenda just pure common sense
Thought he was alright today.
I agree, but it is strange though. Both Maguire and Lindelof lacks pace, which Varane has, so in theory, letting Maguire handle the areial duels and Varana providing cover should work pretty well
then varane-lindelof it should be. I agree with your comment to an extent, nonetheless, the individual mistakes Harry makes are not related to who he partners. He lacks confidence. There was an incident yesterday in the game where he threw the ball out of play although he had room to hold and pass, this shows how low his confidence level is at the moment
You have unhealthy obsession with Maguire. Is he your husband or what ? Playing decent in this game does not absolve all of the shit performance he served us before
haha
Thats the new definition of world class!
Thought he was ok, but nothing more. Still shaky positionally and looked terrified a few times.
BUT I must say that he did the right thing a few times - based on his recent form, obvious bad confidence, lack of skill and pace etc - when he played it safe (put the ball out to throw in etc). In previous games he has way too often tried things that he is not good enough to handle which has been the cause of his many mistakes.
Remind us all.
Whats the statistic for positioning?
Maguire is forced to act as a result of every team targeting him because they are aware of how rubbish he is.
The fact that he is positionally poor and has to tackle rather than intercept or even stop the attack by positioning (same issue with AWB) does not mean he is a better defender.
The fact that HM is prone to make 1 to 5 huge mistakes every game and opposition chose to target him so he has to tackle more often, doesn't make him better.
EVEN if he is simply better at tackling or heading - he is still a rubbish defender because he spoon feeds the opposition strikers with chances.
He had a solid game though i will say the Brighton striker was the type of striker he does well against. When welbeck came on , he immediately caused our defense some problems.
Thought Maguire was very good last night,
He has a lot more of an understanding with Lindelof than with Varane right now.
Shaw is an issue at the back right now, which leads to a lot of space being found which causes issues for Maguire.
This is what led to the goal against Burnley (not all Maguire's fault, Varane should have dropped into the space, Shaw should have either tucked in or stepped up, he did neither).
He has a lot more of an understanding with Lindelof than with Varane right now.
Shaw is an issue at the back right now, which leads to a lot of space being found which causes issues for Maguire.
This is what led to the goal against Burnley (not all Maguire's fault, Varane should have dropped into the space, Shaw should have either tucked in or stepped up, he did neither).
80M defender Harry Maguire, 80 fooking Million Pound
Nope. No Agenda
Played well yesterday. Always plays better than you’d think reading the comments on here but has been out of form. If he gets some consistency back and he and Varane get used to playing together, there’s no problem.
If he doesn’t get some consistency, ever, keeps making errors that he shouldn’t make then I’ll admit we might be better replacing him. By that I mean buying a CB as he is better than the options we have even when below his best.
Lindelof is a good lad and I don’t mind him as backup.
If he doesn’t get some consistency, ever, keeps making errors that he shouldn’t make then I’ll admit we might be better replacing him. By that I mean buying a CB as he is better than the options we have even when below his best.
Lindelof is a good lad and I don’t mind him as backup.
Ralf has been here 14 games and has already had to give 2 public votes of confidence for him. Sums him up
It looked to me as we set up to protect Maguire. Shaw was tucked in and McFred were shielding the defence and we sat deep pretty much all game. I can't think of another reason to set up like that against Brighton at Old Trafford, other than to protect captain Maguire and make sure he doesn't get isolated. That's probably why he didn't have an horrific game.
Think that Rangnick pinpointed what was Maguire's issue. He said that he has to change his way of playing.
Being more proactive meaning he needs to get out more, anticipate more. We see him, more than Varane or Lindelof, trying to intercept the ball near his midfielders and to me, he's just average at that. It's always a 50/50 situation and when he loses the duel, we are massively exposed.
With Rangnick or Ten Hag, he will struggle in the future but with Pochettino, think he will recover his defensive stability, since Pochettino plays more as a middle low block when he didnt have the ball.
Anyway, yesterday he was fine, let's see against Leeds or more so against Atletico. He needs to rise his level.
Being more proactive meaning he needs to get out more, anticipate more. We see him, more than Varane or Lindelof, trying to intercept the ball near his midfielders and to me, he's just average at that. It's always a 50/50 situation and when he loses the duel, we are massively exposed.
With Rangnick or Ten Hag, he will struggle in the future but with Pochettino, think he will recover his defensive stability, since Pochettino plays more as a middle low block when he didnt have the ball.
Anyway, yesterday he was fine, let's see against Leeds or more so against Atletico. He needs to rise his level.
When he kicked the ball out for a throw in rather than protect it for a goal kick sums it up for me. Zero confidence at the moment. Someone needs to think long and hard about the choice of captain as well. You can't have the biggest choker as your captain, but hopefully he regains his confidence before a change has to be made.
Yeah, that was shocking. Never mind shepherding it out of play, he didn’t even back himself to clear it with his left foot. So did a weird outside of the right foot kick into touch. He’s a completely broken man.
Maguire isn't the issue though. No team hinges on a single player. Rangnick wants to play high pressing 'vertical' football. To do that you need to have a. a sweeper keeper b. hardworking players in midfield and c. hardworking players in attack. We have limited resources to none of those things which makes playing his football in an effective way impossible.
In recent games we've been attempting a high press but with a deeper defence. When the press was beaten we had attackers and midfielders that we're too weak in the defensive phase, especially with both Pogba and Bruno on the pitch at the same time, meaning the defence was exposed. Maguire is the only CB out of him Lindelof and Varane (see him on toast against Borja the other day) that really likes to step out, press the ball and physically battle with players. When he has to do it in acres of space, if he loses that battle then it's very bad news because of his lack of pace and agility. So whilst he's been an issue in this compromised system it's a broader failing of the squad makeup not being compatible with the football that Ralf wants to play.
Since Rangnick has taken over he's missed 3 games in the PL 2 of those were when Varane and Lindelof played together. The xGA in those games were 2.1 & 2.2 against Aston Villa and Brentford (we were outplayed in those games). That was 13% of the xGA conceded in 5% of the games played in the season up to that point. I argue that the reason we conceded so many good chances in those games was because Varane and Lindelof don't like pressing the ball that much. In this compromised system the attackers of those sides were afforded lots of space to able to run at retreating defenders. In contrast the xGA with Maguire in the side in the PL since Ralf took over has been 0.9, 1.1, 0.8, 0.3, 0.6, 1.1, 0.7. This suggests that the team functions better in a net sense with Maguire in it alongside Varane or Lindelof because he has attributes that they don't have. Those attributes put him at risk of making the headline mistakes, however. There was a game against Wolves where Varane and Jones played at CB where the xGA was 0.7 but again Jones is a player that likes to step out and press the ball.
I suspect this is what Ralf is looking at rather the ludicrous suggestions that Maguire is played on orders of the board to protect the investment, whilst a £50m player has been discarded and a £40m player couldn't even get 5 minutes under him. It makes no sense.
If you want to look at a template of what a team needs to function in the style of Rangnick at one of his disciples at Liverpool. Watch Allison closely and how he protects their highline, sometimes he sweeps near the half way line! Look at the pressing stats of Firmino in the link below and compare them to our 9 in Ronaldo.
https://fbref.com/en/players/4c370d81/scout/365_euro/Roberto-Firmino-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/dea698d9/scout/365_euro/Cristiano-Ronaldo-Scouting-Report
They also have Fabinho and Thiago who can play as the 6 or DLP whilst having numerous hardworking 8s that do the leg work in midfield. We have McFred who can play as the 8s but no 6 (Pogba is a defensive liability in this role).
It's an incoherent mess across the board and not the result of any single player.
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I thought he had a decent game. The Midfield was atrocious.
Good post classical mechanic
No, I said in the grand scheme of things statistics don't erase what you can see with your own eyes, there's a reason everyone's been down on him for a while now. Statistics are great to have but they have to backup what you actually see, like I said, if statistics say he had a 95% tackling average and he made a shit tonne of interceptions and blocks, but he had 2 calamitous errors that lead to goals against us, as an example, then what the hell do those statistics matter for, irrelevant. If anyone has an agenda here it's you, some kind of agenda to protect Harry from any and all criticism, you should honestly spend some time away from the forum thinking about anything other than Harry Maguire and how to protect him from those mean internet posters
That's my take on it as well. The first half we played super deep meaning Brighton found it hard to break us down so our defenders weren't put in a position of any real pressure.
Maybe it was the half time boos that made Rangnick change his mind on pressing further up the pitch but it worked. Ronaldo scoring and then shortly after Dunk getting a red changed the game completely. Playing with 10 men it's obviously a lot harder to put the opposition defence under pressure even though they still had a couple of chances. So while Maquire didn't do a lot wrong during the game I wouldn't hold my breath that he's playing himself into some kind of form just yet.
Let me shed some light here, I'm an advocate of statistics but don't be fooled into thinking that you can't tell any story with statistics, we have to understand the makeup of those numbers and what it's actually trying to tell us, forgive me if you already know this but:
1) There is a definition for every metric that unfortunately chastises better play some time for example, 1 clearance (in the background) will be worth X points in terms of the weighting for the average rating, if another player instead of booting it into row z (Clearing) had simply passed that ball then 1 accurate pass will be lower than the X points for the clearance.
2) If you look at Maguire's stats he has 5 clearances and 4 interceptions but typically it was Lindelof that pressured the defender and Maguire intercepted the loose ball, my Nan should have been competent to make those "Interceptions".
3) There were several instances where Maguire hit the ball out (Clearance), whereas Lindelof turned and passed the ball out but as pointed out in my first point, it won't weight this as highly.
Then you have to take into account their roles, Lindelof does (and is expected to) pressure/ press more where Harry will sit behind slightly due to lack of pace so Lindelof will look better here and in actual fact, it's based on instructions and style of play.
All we can say is due to their flawed definitions, Maguire came out as higher when every rating site done by eyes and not statistics says the opposite. Statistics are good for comparing two players specific actions but even then there is usually reasons behind this and it's not as simple as to just take the figure.
For context, I don't think Maguire had a bad game yesterday and there wasn't much between the two for me, I do think though that Maguire is too quick to just get rid of the ball (Probably due to his confidence based off his recent very poor form) whereas Lindelof does have a bit more about him. I hope Maguire can get back to the days where against smaller teams he would push up into midfield when we control the ball and get's into the box but yesterday he was just average and on the day, that was OK as he did his job.
We have lost one game since Ralf took over. Against Wolves. 1-0. But go on...tell me again there's no agenda
So stats suck when they don't fit your agenda. Got it...
Yeah...i'm the one with the agenda. got it
Meanwhile the stats say Maguire had 4 interceptions yesterday. But go on...tell me again how you don't have an agenda
I have a healthy obsession with trying to lift our players, not knock them down.
What where he's positioned and who he is marking when DeGea saves that header in the first half.
Something similar happened in the 2nd half as well.
Something similar happened in the 2nd half as well.
That is a pictorial version of the debate people are trying to muster between Lindelof & fecking Maguire. I could care less who’s worse as neither is good enough.
Anyone who actually watches the games & wants to form more excuses for that guy is a lost cause. We paid £80mil & gave the captaincy to a guy who is ‘not as bad as. . .’, ridiculous.
It’s like we have our own version of Ty from AFTV, right here on the Caf…
Honestly i don't think the players respect him as a captain. I watch him defend and he's just so bad. He tends to rush into challenges because he's so scared of the space behind . He also tends to wrestle players to the ground alot because he knows it's game over if he gets turned and forced into a foot race. How can a defender who is so shaky and mistake prone be the captain?
The leader of the players on the pitch who's supposed to lead the team to big trophies? He'll get embarrassed by any forward with a decent amount of agility. I'm actually nervous for next week's game vs Atletico because they have quick tricky players like Lemar and Correa. I honestly think our defense would be much more solid with any combination of Varane, Bailly and Lindelof, defenders who can actually move around the pitch with pace. Andy Cole was right in saying he wouldn't start if he wasn't Captain, we're never playing a high line or front foot pressing football with such a slow CB. We'd get torn to shreds.
The leader of the players on the pitch who's supposed to lead the team to big trophies? He'll get embarrassed by any forward with a decent amount of agility. I'm actually nervous for next week's game vs Atletico because they have quick tricky players like Lemar and Correa. I honestly think our defense would be much more solid with any combination of Varane, Bailly and Lindelof, defenders who can actually move around the pitch with pace. Andy Cole was right in saying he wouldn't start if he wasn't Captain, we're never playing a high line or front foot pressing football with such a slow CB. We'd get torn to shreds.
Maguire is clearly Type 7.
You tell alot of people they have an agenda…
Maybe we just step back (me too!), realise its football we are talking about, and that we have different opinions in regards to who is good and who is not and thats that!
summary:
you think maguire is good, i dont.
I think lindelof is good, you dont.
Easy!
You tell alot of people they have an agenda…
Maybe we just step back (me too!), realise its football we are talking about, and that we have different opinions in regards to who is good and who is not and thats that!
summary:
you think maguire is good, i dont.
I think lindelof is good, you dont.
Easy!
You are making assumptions. I don't think Lindelof is bad. I just don't think he's anywhere near as good as maguire. Maguire had a poor run after being rushed back from injury, but he's been good ever since and is nothing more than a scapegoat for many of our supporters. If he was as bad as everyone makes him out to be, his stats and ratings on whoscored would reflect it (like they did when he was really poor). But he's been good for a while now. Imagine how good he could possibly be if his own fans were actually cheering for him instead of booing and calling him a CeeUNextTuesday
I actually admire you for your consistency and steadfast support for your man. Fair play.
You are completely delusional in my humble opinion but fair play nonetheless.
Maguire is objectively useless and no amount of stats will ever change that. Watch the matches and forget about the stats. No matter who we are playing Harry always keeps them in with a chance.
I don't even know what kind of cultural reset starts with appointing a captain who doesn't have to earn the armband. Even without the player doing anything wrong that's already a disaster waiting to happen. His captaincy being the subject of this much conversation 2 years later is typical. No United player of his level of talent should wear the armband without having to earn it. You have to be respected at something or the followers will think you as just a ceremonial head. Like what's actually stopping Pogba, Ronaldo or Bruno from telling him to shut his mouth and have a seat. If the fee set him up to fail the captaincy walked him right into it.
And both are in fact spineless utter tosh and should be 4/5th choice CBs but rather sold.
Super easy!
On Tuesday Slabhead was terrified of the ball and receiving a pass. Every team knows he’s a bag of nerves so pressure him. Ralf needs to get him some help and not pile on the misery. He’s out of his depth.
I’d personally bring back Jones - he was terrific on his comeback and we need to play any in form players we have left, but Harry’s in a mental mess and it’s sick to keep playing him especially against Leeds Scum at the weekend
I’d personally bring back Jones - he was terrific on his comeback and we need to play any in form players we have left, but Harry’s in a mental mess and it’s sick to keep playing him especially against Leeds Scum at the weekend
haha, didn't see that one coming. But in hind site I should have. Your comment is to black and white, the world is more of a murky grey!
Regarding half of your comment (ill leave it open to interpret which half in order to stay on topic):
You either haven't watched any games, don't appreciate modern football (with good technical ability, positioning and tactics on all 11 players) or simply trust what the sun writes more than your own good sense!?
- Status