Would you pay around 50 - 60 million for him in a years time if he has another fine season? The risk of him not being good enough for a top club will still be there i believe.
Harry Kane
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So Chambers, Dier, Berahino and Kane won't ever be good enough? Add Stones, Ward-Prowse and Garbutt into that mix and that is a lot of talent with potential upside for a U21
squad.
All those guys have a shot at being top players IMO.
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Based on his current level of performance, given that he could also prove his consistency for another season or 2, I would definitely pay 40m for him. But for 50-60m I would expect Augero level of performance though. Up to now it's clear he is not up to that level yet and I doubt he has that same ceiling of potential in him.
Poland were runners-up in U17 championship a while ago, didn't translate to much and none of the players did very well in their senior careers so I wouldn't use U17 as a benchmark to anything. U21 level is better indeed because these players are approaching an age when they can impact senior national team but let's wait until the tournament has begun (preferably until the end) before we start assessing the strength of this group. England had had strong teams that didn't amount to much in the past.
The quality of youth footballers in Europe has gone down though IMO. There are relatively few talents below the age of 21 who are already impacting first teams of big clubs.
I’m not saying Kane’s guaranteed to improve at all: he could easily regress and turn into a fairly shite player, which is why I’m very apprehensive at the idea of us spending a lot of money on him this season. I acknowledge that. But in general, very good players who are still young and getting plenty of game time are expected to improve, aren’t they? That’s the whole concept of a player having potential, and continuing to develop. Again, no guarantee it’ll happen for Kane, but there’s certainly a decent chance it could.
Personally I think its worth waiting 12 months to see whether he's just a one season wonder. If we have as good a season as we expect next season we'd still be the obvious choice for him....city have aguero, chelsea have costa etc. And I don't think many Euro clubs would be getting involved so the price wont be too dissimilar to this summer...around 40m.
Rooney doesn't lack pace, just 2 weeks ago Valdez had an interview and when asked who was the fastest United player he didn't respond with Valencia or Smalling (previously mentioned) but instead with Rooney.
Poland might have been runners up 16 years ago but I would say that England winning the competition twice in the space of four years says that we are doing something well at youth level.
I also followed up stating that some of the Chelsea lads from last years side went on to great things at youth level this year, winning the FA Youth Cup and the youth Champions League. Solanke scored 12 goals in that competition averaging a goal every 64 minutes! Between him and Tammy Abraham they got 75 goals at youth level this season.
The centre backs from last years winning side Joe Gomez and Taylor Moore have both broken into senior football this season, Gomez at only 17 years old in the Championship (linked with a move to Liverpool today) and Moore with RC Lens in France, both have been very impressive.
I like to try and be as objective as possible but I will admit that I am prone to pro England bias, naturally, but I do feel very encouraged by the progress that England are making at youth level, much more so than in many years.
I don't think that there is a drop off of talent as you suggest. To me it is the culture of criticism that is pervasive in football today due to modern technology. I remember when Ronaldo signed for United. I had never heard of him and found out through Ceefax. If he was breaking through today we would have been going through his progress with a fine tooth comb for at least a couple of seasons. Youngsters have no breathing space anymore, they are under the spotlight from day one.
Oh boy, seems like his ability to judge speed has also gone for a toss. Bite
Meanwhile Rooney has been heard to say he envies Valencias pace
See what I don't get with the people saying "Wait and see if he's a one season wonder" is that if he does go on and has another world class season, all the big clubs, who at this point in time could be more appealing, will be in for him, thus reducing our chances of buying him. His price would also skyrocket even more.
All signings are risky, they can either turn out like Ronaldo or Zaha... but we have to take the risk imo. I feel that Kane will genuinely be world-class.
Pearls don’t lie on the seashore. If you want one, you must dive for it.
All signings are risky, they can either turn out like Ronaldo or Zaha... but we have to take the risk imo. I feel that Kane will genuinely be world-class.
Pearls don’t lie on the seashore. If you want one, you must dive for it.
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I agree. Gambles are there to be taken, and i think this is one United should take. Negotiating with Levy will be a big stumbling block.
Meanwhile Rooney has been heard to say he envies Valencias pace
I might add I don't believe he is faster than Valencia but if someone was under the illusion he was then that certainly means he's not slow.
This is not a Ronaldo/Zaha/Tosic style risk where you are able to target a young, relatively lesser known, player for about 10-12 mil. We are talking about an outlay of maybe 40 mil or more. That would make him our second most expensive signing. With that kind of outlay you don't just gamble and hope it pays off; you have to be certain to a great extent that he will not only have an immediate impact but will turn out to be a tremendous player. Else the 40 mil would be down the drain and we will be again going into the market for a top striker rather urgently.
I agree too, if he does have another outstanding season then the price next year would be considerably more than now.
At least he has proved he can score goals in the PL and not for one of the top 4 sides either
People getting excited about players like Firmino and Felipe Anderson, who themselves have a lot to prove and especially in the PL and don't see the point of buying them
We need a striker who can score 20+ goals per season
Persuading Levy is another matter
If Kane is a one season wonder then so is Otamendi and to an extent Depay.
Of course. I am aware that we'll be taking a massive risk with such a huge transfer. And as I said, if he has another worldie, his price will skyrocket into Ronaldo/Bale prices, which is why I'd much rather take a risk now and cough up the 40 million.
Of course, it might not work out, but in a market where David Luiz goes for 50 million, I'd say 40 million is a fair price for Kane. The market has been ridiculously inflated over the past few years.
We are not in a position where we can risk a pretty large chunk of our budget on a risky signing seeing that we have other pretty important positions to fill as well. If we are going to splunk 40 mil we should go all out for a proven striker. Test Real's resolve for Benzema.
Depay's progression has been a steady one and he has had 2 solid seasons behind him plus he is well known to LVG. Not to mention his price makes his much less of a risk.
Kane has only had one good season, Levy will not sell for less than £50m (If he will sell at all).
Otamendi has been around for a while, his release clause is high but he is way less of a risk than Kane IMO.
I dont think Kane would be worth the price we will have to pay for him.
And neither will/have cost anywhere near what we will be shelling out for Kane. Also, two are full internationals for some time while Kane is just so new to the scene. If you cannot see the difference then it is difficult to explain.
No one minds signing a guy who might be a one-season wonder.
It's paying £50 million* for a guy who might be a one-season wonder that people are against.
Personally, I don't care. I welcome young, exciting attackers at any price.
*£50 million probably wouldn't get him from Tottenham this summer any way.
You say we have other important positions to fill, byt a new striker is also a big priority this year. In our current financial situation, we can easily fund a 40 million move. Going by current rumours and matching them with approximate prices:
PURCHASES:
Depay - 22 million
Kane - 40 million
Schniederlin - 25 million
Otamendi - 40 million
Cilessen - 20 million
New RB - 15-25 million
TOTAL: 170 MILLION (approx.)
SALES:
Van Persie - 10 million
Hernandez - 8 million
Nani - 10 million
Evans - 10 million
De Gea - 25 million
TOTAL: 60 MILLION (approx.)
TOTAL AMOUNT SPENT: 110 MILLION (approx.)
So you can say that even though prices are approximated, we won't actually be spending too much. We must also remember that with Falcao and possibly Chicha and RVP also gone, a lot of our big wage earners are off our books. We need a new striker. Why not spend 40 million on an English, young striker who's just scored 21 Premier League goals rsther than spending it on other unproven strikers such as Lacazette?
Dybala also went for 32 million, so adding on the English, Levy and United tax, I'd say 40 million's a fair amount.
Yeah but if Kane scores 25+ goals again next year then Tottenham are going to be asking for some world record Bale/Ronaldo type fee which will be even more ridiculous. Yes it's a risk but I'd rather risk Andy Carroll type money than world record fees.
It's you who cannot see the difference. Valencia want €50million for Otamendi which is roughly £35million and Depay has cost £25million roughly, but some sources are saying as high as £31million.
Kane costing £40million ish isn't that bad when you consider other fees, especially Luke Shaw for £30million.
Like I said, I'm not against signing him for a big fee. I find young attackers the most exciting signings. I don't care about price much.
But we're not getting him for Andy Carroll money. Tottenham aren't accepting a £35-40 million bid this summer.
We'd have to make an offer they literally can't refuse. The type of offer they'd probably never receive again.
They'll probably back their chances of receiving a £35-40 million bid again in the future. And if they don't, he's a young, local lad and they don't sell him. Plus they've still got Eriksen, Lloris and maybe Lamela to sell for good money in the future.
I think a few people would be more for it, if we could get him for £35 million. But it's not happening.
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Otamendi is being touted at 35 million euros and Depay cost about 30 million euros. Both more proven and costing less than Kane. And Kane could easily be around 50 mil knowing Levy. Think you need to redo your maths now.
Also, it surely is not the case of Kane or nothing. If Spurs are being ridiculous with their negotiations for Kane this year or next then we go look somewhere else. What else are the scouts for? No way in this world is Kane a 50 million pound player, yet!
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T
The problem with that is we will be letting go of 2 strikers and will only be banking on a big money move for a player who will cost a bomb and could well turn out to be a one season wonder. I would rather we go for a proven top class player seeing that this season is important for us.
Like what?
I have a feeling that whatever I suggest, you'll claim that you'd turn it down.
I don't know really. It would have to be huge money. So much that everybody in world football would see it as hugely hugely overpaying.
I'll put it this way: You're more likely to accept a bid of £50 million next summer than this summer. Because refusing to sell him this summer (for any price) would make a statement.
Kane didn't play that match, berahinho is all potential and seems to have an attitude problem. Dier and Chambers are at the same level as jwp, garbutt. 50/50 if they are ever good enough for a cl club.
To be fair Chambers has already played in the CL at 19. Granted that he needs to cement a first team starting spot for himself. It is hard to tell though I agree. Look at the Holland team that won the competition twice a few years back, most of the careers that resulted were disappointing. I think that countries have sent stronger squads in recent years though. Germany and Spain namely.
Fair enough, but what top, world class strikers are available? You previously mentioned Benzema, but he seems unwilling to move and Madrid seems to be against a transfer.
Kane would be awesome but it will obviously not happen this summer. I think Higuain will be our striker signing. Manzukic is possibly our plan B if we don't get Higuain. I feel it may be a case of one of those summers where there might not be too many world class strikers available to buy even though we have the funds to buy whoever we want and we may have to settle for a really top class striker like Higuain who is not necessarily world class but who will still improve us no end. Kane will obviously move on from Spurs in a couple of seasons like Bale did when the time is right
There's more chance of it happening this summer than next summer, in which his value will double or even triple if he hits similar heights.
His value can't really double or triple, because they'll probably refuse any offers outright this summer anyway. If bids come in for him this summer, they'll want to make a statement that they wont be pushed around, wont sell a promising player after one season etc.
Next summer there will be more chance, in my opinion. Their resistance can only weaken from this point, even if he continues doing well.
Rooney has always been one of the fastest player in our team, remember good old times when he was involved in many fast counter attack moves with Ronaldo... Just that he looks "fat" makes people fall under the illusion that he is slow.
Has forgotten how to use it then.
Alright lads, manutd.com has spoken on the matter.......
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...chester-united-fastest-player-in-2014-15.aspx
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...chester-united-fastest-player-in-2014-15.aspx
He's always been fast, but his acceleration has continued to take a hit with every passing injury. When he gets motoring he's pretty rapid but that counts for little in this sport where your first 15 meters is much more important than what you can do after 50.
Not a single chance we would get Kane for £40m. We would need to be getting close to Di Maria figures for Kane, and he'd also need to hand in a transfer request.
This. I think £50m would get rejected never mind £40m (in no way saying that's his value).
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