Harry Kane MBE | Performances

SirHenryPercy said:
You should look at the quality of some of his goals and in big games.
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Seen them, not saying he's never scored a top goal. I'm just not sure he can drag a team to victories and leagues. Right now I think he's more dependant on his team mates than say Suarez or a young Rooney.

Agree with you about his hunger for goals though. Too many strikers lack it.
 
Dobbs said:
True. As good as he is I feel he needs the team around him to perform. Over the long run that's true of all strikers but can he produce magic when his team is struggling. Not sure.
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You could have said the same about Shearer. I was a huge fan of Shearer and while he scored a few from distance, he wasn't a game changer in the way that Rooney, Henry and Suarez were at their best.

I see massive similarities between Shearer and Kane. Not in how they play, but how they operate. They both have the same ability to finish with either feet, both good in the air and they are both pure goalscorers. I think Shearer, especially a young Shearer, was better in every department but Kane has everything needed to score goals. Look at how he moves. It's so wonderfully selfish. It was the same with Shearer. Never does the thought enter their head "How can I help my team here". It's always 'How can I get the ball in a position where I can put the ball in the net'. I really like watching Kane. He's not exciting often, but he's an exciting goalscorer.
 
I think the people claiming no one fears him are bang on the money. Suarez, Torres, Henry, Drogba, Eto'o etc. He's not on that level, don't care how many goals he scores.

Him failing in Europe & for England probably doesn't help either.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
You could have said the same about Shearer. I was a huge fan of Shearer and while he scored a few from distance, he wasn't a game changer in the way that Rooney, Henry and Suarez were at their best.

I see massive similarities between Shearer and Kane. Not in how they play, but how they operate. They both have the same ability to finish with either feet, both good in the air and they are both pure goalscorers. I think Shearer, especially a young Shearer, was better in every department but Kane has everything needed to score goals. Look at how he moves. It's so wonderfully selfish. It was the same with Shearer. Never does the thought enter their head "How can I help my team here". It's always 'How can I get the ball in a position where I can put the ball in the net'. I really like watching Kane. He's not exciting often, but he's an exciting goalscorer.
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Yeah agree with all that. Whilst I don't think he's the guy who can transform a team he would be a brilliant addition.
 
If you view goals as a valuable commodity in football then you value Harry Kane because he scores them regularly.
 
BlueCelery said:
I think the people claiming no one fears him are bang on the money. Suarez, Torres, Henry, Drogba, Eto'o etc. He's not on that level, don't care how many goals he scores. ...
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Well, that sums up your ridiculous, pre-determined attitude.

No matter how many goals he scores - the prime function of a striker - you still will never rate him as highly as Torres etc.
 
shaggy said:
True - though I'd wager Kane is also approaching his peak now and in the coming few years and then will decline quickly in his late 20s (like Rooney).
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What makes you think that? Rooney played first team football from 17 onwards. Kane finally got his chance at Spurs when aged 21 (may be 20 would need to check). He did go on a few loans before that granted, but he hasn't played the same amount of football time wise as Rooney did at his age. Would be interesting to check minutes played and see if thats an accurate statement I guess.
 
RedSky said:
What makes you think that? Rooney played first team football from 17 onwards. Kane finally got his chance at Spurs when aged 21 (may be 20 would need to check). He did go on a few loans before that granted, but he hasn't played the same amount of football time wise as Rooney did at his age. Would be interesting to check minutes played and see if thats an accurate statement I guess.
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Exactly - no idea what that guy is on about. Utterly bizarre claim. I assume then according to him that Pogba only has 4/5 years left in him max considering he has played more top level football at the same age as Kane and is almost 24? So dumb.
 
Thought it'd be interesting to check and compare the same amount of minutes from age 23 and to when they first have recorded minutes. This does also include England minutes.

Harry Kane - 10/11 to 16/17
Total Minutes: 16406 (this does include Reserve Football)

Wayne Rooney - 02/03 to 08/09
Total Minutes: 26957

So Rooney at Kanes age had played over 10,000 more minutes. That's over 111, 90 minute matches.
 
balaks said:
Exactly - no idea what that guy is on about. Utterly bizarre claim. I assume then according to him that Pogba only has 4/5 years left in him max considering he has played more top level football at the same age as Kane and is almost 24? So dumb.
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It's not a bizarre claim at all to suggest Kane might peak at 24/25. Plenty of players do including Messi. I just don't think Kane is going to improve much more past his current level which is hardly a cause of such outrage as he's already arguably the best striker in the league.
 
My biggest worry would be these poor periods he has, at a big club those runs would cause much more of a problem.

You cant go to United and score 3 in 18 - think Zlatan after 0 in 6 - cant happen with 1 upfront.
 
Now we've moved on to intangible traits like 'fear' to downplay Kane, because his goalscoring and actual ability at football are actually good.
 
shaggy said:
It's not a bizarre claim at all to suggest Kane might peak at 24/25. Plenty of players do including Messi. I just don't think Kane is going to improve much more past his current level which is hardly a cause of such outrage as he's already arguably the best striker in the league.
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I think people were reacting more to this claim:

shaggy said:
True - though I'd wager Kane is also approaching his peak now and in the coming few years and then will decline quickly in his late 20s (like Rooney).
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That he may be reaching or have already reached his peak isn't that controversial. And if he scores as he has the last seasons that would hardly be bad. But I don't see anything in his game that suggests he will quickly decline. His game is mostly about finishing and clever movement, not something you're likely to suddenly lose at say 28.
 
Sparky10Legend said:
My biggest worry would be these poor periods he has, at a big club those runs would cause much more of a problem.

You cant go to United and score 3 in 18 - think Zlatan after 0 in 6 - cant happen with 1 upfront.
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So in your opinion then, having a poor period at the club in 6th place is more of a problem than having a poor period at the club in 2nd place.

I can't see that myself, since a poor period at the 6th placed club would simply mean sliding from mid-table into mid-table obscurity, whereas at the 2nd placed club it could be the difference between challenging for the title and not.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Now we've moved on to intangible traits like 'fear' to downplay Kane, because his goalscoring and actual ability at football are actually good.
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A guy like Mario Gomez also scored a shitload of goals, who the hell ever feared him?
 
I think "fear" is just a lazy term to say he doesn't have as much in his game apart from goals.
 
hellohello said:
I think people were reacting more to this claim:



That he may be reaching or have already reached his peak isn't that controversial. And if he scores as he has the last seasons that would hardly be bad. But I don't see anything in his game that suggests he will quickly decline. His game is mostly about finishing and clever movement, not something you're likely to suddenly lose at say 28.
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Fair enough. I just don't think he's going to be banging in 30 goals a season still at 28 but time will tell.
 
shaggy said:
Fair enough. I just don't think he's going to be banging in 30 goals a season still at 28 but time will tell.
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That's still different from "decline quickly".
 
To a large degree Harry Kane is the next Wayne Rooney. Guaranteed poster boy for England for next 10 years, can score a goal, his other qualities are way over hyped when he's essentially just a traditional goal scorer, on his good day he is amongst the best players in the world, but when things aren't going for him he looks a Sunday league player, starts the season unfit and unsurprisingly doesn't score much to start, his goals come in bursts of 7-8 games, his fans will continue to talk him big while everyone else looking from outside will realize that he's just a very good player, no more no less.
 
balaks said:
He is a world class goal scorer - like I said, better than Torres. You may prefer Torres as a player and that's grand but Kane is a much better goal scorer than Torres ever was already, at least in terms of numbers.
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Fernando Torres from 07-10 was on a different level to Kane, he scored 24 in 34 in the first season 14 in 24 in the next, 18 in 22 in the next and was often coming from the back of injuries and never took penalties, he was simply harder to contain than Kane was due to his explosiveness, pace and dribbling even if you say Kane was marginally a better finisher, Torres all round game made him a more difficult proposition to contend with.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Fernando Torres from 07-10 was on a different level to Kane, he scored 24 in 34 in the first season 14 in 24 in the next, 18 in 22 in the next and was often coming from the back of injuries and never took penalties, he was simply harder to contain than Kane was due to his explosiveness, pace and dribbling even if you say Kane was marginally a better finisher, Torres all round game made him a more difficult proposition to contend with.
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Also played in a far superior PL, which is something that is not being contextually factored into Kane's feats, as good as they seem.
 
Fortitude said:
Also played in a far superior PL, which is something that is not being contextually factored into Kane's feats, as good as they seem.
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Lol, yeah sport and athletes are always moving backwards, never advancing physically, technically and mentally etc.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Lol, yeah sport and athletes are always moving backwards, never advancing physically, technically and mentally etc.
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Good grief. You really need to stop. You can't possibly dream of arguing this one. One played in what has been the peak of PL-era football with countless representation in Semi-finals and finals of the CL, the other plays at a time when English clubs can't even get to the QF's of the CL. One played against, and did very well, against peak best CB's on the planet, the other does not.

Progression in football is far from linear.
 
Fortitude said:
Good grief. You really need to stop. You can't possibly dream of arguing this one. One played in what has been the peak of PL-era football with countless representation in Semi-finals and finals of the CL, the other plays at a time when English clubs can't even get to the QF's of the CL. One played against, and did very well, against peak best CB's on the planet, the other does not.

Progression in football is far from linear.
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The PL not doing as well in Europe doesn't mean the standard in the PL is regressing, quite the opposite there are many contributing factors. The overall standard hasn't declined, the lower level teams have more money than ever and can attract better players than ever. There are more top coaches and continuous scientific and technical advances improving standards.

To judge the overall standards against outside competitions doesn't measure up as they have improved as well. Standards in sport rarely ever go backwards, overall today's PL teams are simply better than those of 10 years ago, even if 1 or 2 maybe not as good as they were.
 
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Fortitude said:
Also played in a far superior PL, which is something that is not being contextually factored into Kane's feats, as good as they seem.
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Hmmmm. I think that's a wash. Torres played in a Liverpool side that almost won the league. United and Chelsea were good then. Arsenal were 4th as per. The rest of the league arguably wasn't as strong in relative (ie when all 20 teams are judged against each other) terms as it is now.

Torres was unquestionably the more talented footballer, but he was a certain brand of forward that everyone universally accepts as "Brilliant but what if his pace goes". Kane doesn't rely on pace, he's just a very high level, well rounded centre forward.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
The PL not doing as well in Europe doesn't mean the standard in the PL is regressing, quite the opposite there are many contributing factors. The overall standard hasn't declined, the lower level teams have more money than ever and can attract better players than ever. There are more top coaches and continuous scientific and technical advances improving standards.

To judge the overall standards against outside competitions doesn't measure up as they have improved as well. Standards in sport rarely ever go backwards, overall today's PL teams are simply better than those of 10 years ago, even if 1 or 2 maybe not as good as they were.
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Even if you look at the centre-backs in the league of the time, on an intra-league basis, the very fact they were the best in the CL makes them a greater prospect than anything Kane has ever faced. Facing perennial CL semi-finalists and finalists brings up the standard of the entire league, just as facing sides who are making disgraceful showings in the CL, lowers it collectively. Those teams who had to face literal CL-chasing top-end teams had to do more to get a result simply because they were facing the best teams on the continent to do so.

Money does not equal quality, especially in a artificially shunted and distorted market. It just means prices have gone up for the same level of player.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Hmmmm. I think that's a wash. Torres played in a Liverpool side that almost won the league. United and Chelsea were good then. Arsenal were 4th as per. The rest of the league arguably wasn't as strong in relative (ie when all 20 teams are judged against each other) terms as it is now.

Torres was unquestionably the more talented footballer, but he was a certain brand of forward that everyone universally accepts as "Brilliant but what if his pace goes". Kane doesn't rely on pace, he's just a very high level, well rounded centre forward.
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See my post above.

Kane's attributes don't have much to do with this as it's about the calibre of opponent being faced - if he's doing that against Rio, Vidic, Terry, Carvalho level CB's it carries more weight than what we have now.
 
Fortitude said:
See my post above.

Kane's attributes don't have much to do with this as it's about the calibre of opponent being faced - if he's doing that against Rio, Vidic, Terry, Carvalho level CB's it carries more weight than what we have now.
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Not arguing for the sake of being a dick. But that's my point.

It's all well and good mentioning those players, but the 17 other defences Torres faced were arguably weaker than the defences Kane is playing against. There are more competitive teams this year than there were in 2007-2008.

No real issue if you take Torres to be the better player though. He was top drawer when he landed in Liverpool, was so jealous he wasn't a United player.
 
Thing with Kane is, he is not press-resistant enough from what I've seen. This is the one thing nowadays that separates the very best from the rest. I mean, with movement and finishing etc Kane is a good striker and he will score you goals. But in very very tight matches where the oppsition will press you hard I think Kane just lacks the speed of thinking to impose himself on the match. I might be talking bollocks here but I'm just basing my opinion on the matches where I saw him play.
 
I think some United fans who aren't convinced might be partly influenced by the fact that Kane is usually woeful whenever he plays United. Has he ever had a good game vs us?

Even disregarding that, I don't think he's truly an elite striker. I think Tottenham is his level.
 
VorZakone said:
I might be talking bollocks here.
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Think it's probably that mate. The fella is a great first time finisher, you rarely see him take two touches. He's a good one touch passer, he rarely dwells on the ball. I don't think anyone would point at him and say he needs too much time to be effective.

I don't know what you would class as a 'press resistant striker'. It's rare that centre forwards are pressed. Pressing in the simplest sense of the word happens at the other end of the field.

Strikers can be nullified by a dedicated resource sitting on them, be that a centre half or the defensive midfielder, but that's a tactical issue to be resolved by a manager and team shape, not an individual.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Think it's probably that mate. The fella is a great first time finisher, you rarely see him take two touches. He's a good one touch passer, he rarely dwells on the ball. I don't think anyone would point at him and say he needs too much time to be effective.

I don't know what you would class as a 'press resistant striker'. It's rare that centre forwards are pressed. Pressing in the simplest sense of the word happens at the other end of the field.

Strikers can be nullified by a dedicated resource sitting on them, be that a centre half or the defensive midfielder, but that's a tactical issue to be resolved by a manager and team shape, not an individual.
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Best example I can give is when Utd played Spurs at home this season. Kane was very underwhelming because of Utd's pressing. Suarez for example thinks faster than Kane does.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Not arguing for the sake of being a dick. But that's my point.

It's all well and good mentioning those players, but the 17 other defences Torres faced were arguably weaker than the defences Kane is playing against. There are more competitive teams this year than there were in 2007-2008.

No real issue if you take Torres to be the better player though. He was top drawer when he landed in Liverpool, was so jealous he wasn't a United player.
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I don't see having an objective discussion as either party being dickish. Kane's a hot topic, so he's going to be held to the scrutiny of strikers at the higher end of the game.

As for your points, there's just no way they're true. The PL as a whole was atrocious last season and that was verified by the performances of its top sides in Europe. The level is better this season than last, but still nothing to write home about.

Torres joined Liverpool in 2007, the same season United won the CL. They [United] lost 5 times (City*2, Bolton, West Ham and Chelsea) and drew 6 (Reading, Portsmouth, Arsenal, Spurs, Middlesbrough and Blackburn). That means four losses to teams outside the top 4 and five draws. These were teams going up against the strongest United side of the 00's.

Lescott, Jagielka, Laursen, Mellberg, Samba, Ooijer, Campbell, Dunne, Corluka, Neill, Gabbidon, King ('08 season), Woodgate are centre-backs, outside of the top 4, that Torres faced. They were strong players in 2007 and better than what we have out there now in equivalent placed teams barring the outlier that is United. Even then, Melllberg and King would give anyone we've got now a run for their money as starters. Fodder at the bottom end hasn't changed much, if at all.

Whether you add the best CB's in the world at that time to the mix or not, Torres faced tougher defenders than Kane.

This notion that the league is collectively better than it was because 'future' or 'money' seems reasonable because the top teams have gotten worse, not because the lesser teams have gotten better. The standard drops and a new 'top level' is accepted. This isn't a dig at Kane, btw, because it's the same across the board. The standard for excellence has dropped and nobody expects the PL sides to do anything in the CL these days so it's put to the side and the focus becomes almost solely about the PL, which leads to a false impression of the strength and quality of the competition.
 
Fortitude said:
See my post above.

Kane's attributes don't have much to do with this as it's about the calibre of opponent being faced - if he's doing that against Rio, Vidic, Terry, Carvalho level CB's it carries more weight than what we have now.
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Funny, I seem to recall Kane taking Terry apart and making him look like a total donkey.
 
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