I've had hardcore American liberals who loathe mass gun ownership attack me vitriolically for saying mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed guns. Apparently to many people, the perception that the mentally ill are violent is indeed more important than protecting society. Americans are fecking weird.
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
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I've had hardcore American liberals who loathe mass gun ownership attack me vitriolically for saying mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed guns. Apparently to many people, the perception that the mentally ill are violent is indeed more important than protecting society. Americans are fecking weird.
Absolute proof that gun control works. I have to try to find some positives tonight and one came to me that if the 5 attackers had guns then without question countless more people would have been killed in tonight's terror attacks in London. One of the men ran in to a restaurant and started stabbing people, 4 more men were outside with knives and they were right next to many very busy pubs, clubs and restaurants in the same area. It is an absolute certainty If all 5 men had been armed with guns instead of knives then we would be looking at the biggest terror incident in the UK's history.
I am surprised that none of these terrorists in the UK can get their hands on guns. In certain areas of the UK, some gangs do have access to them so its possible to get them if you know the right people.
Yes, I am surprised too, but happy they weren't involved tonight otherwise it would have been a slaughter. Saying that though, although guns are obtainable they are not that easy to get hold of, but back to my original point, that I am so glad we have the gun laws we do, and I think tonight is irrefutable proof that the law works.
Probability game. Make guns hard to obtain and fewer people will have them.
Sorry @langster but the gun people will use this attack as a reason why guns are essential. If only people in the street had guns...
Sorry @langster but the gun people will use this attack as a reason why guns are essential. If only people in the street had guns...
Oh undoubtedly, I know they will but it can't possibly stand up in the face of logic, reason and absolute evidence. There were apparently 3 attackers, all had knives and there is no way that people would have been able to shoot them before they hit anyone. They attacked bars and restaurants where people were eating and drinking and would have been defenceless. On top of all that without concealed carry permits, people wouldn't have been armed anyway. Not to mention not allowing people who are armed to consume alcohol.
The people having guns arguments doesn't stand up or make sense in a scenario like this. Just look at what happened in Paris and how many were killed there because the terrorists were armed. I have no doubt we would be looking at similar numbers had they had guns like in Paris. I know then people will argue that France has restrictive gun control too thus making the argument circular, but still, I think the proof is there and anyone arguing will be doing so out of ignorance or because they have an agenda rather than looking at the situation rationally or logically.
Its pointless arguing with gun nuts because they live in a fantasy world where shooting happen in a Wild West cowboy style duel rather than the reality of collateral damage.
10 years ago I was engaged to an American girl, but the big problem I had with her family was that I was against gun ownership. I was bombarded by my girlfriend's parents (particularly her dad) and aunts and uncles about the positives of owning a gun. In the end they became so aggressive with their arguments, they basically told me that they were too concerned knowing I would not be able to protect my wife. So I reluctantly agreed to go with them to a firing range, which was actually a lot of fun. Holding a 44 Magnum S&W and firing it was bloody scary. I could barely keep it still with two arms, and the bloody thing went off like a cannon. Still cracks me up watching Clint Eastwood aiming it perfectly with one hand. In the end I would have bought a gun had I married this chick and moved to the States, as it's better to have a gun if everyone else has one. However, I prefer the idea of no one owning them.
You realize out of a population of 340mil only about 55-56 mil own guns.
Everyone doesn't have a gun.
Of course those 55mil own 250mil guns
You realize out of a population of 340mil only about 55-56 mil own guns.
Everyone doesn't have a gun.
Of course those 55mil own 250mil guns
It was in the mid west
Ban the bullet instead. It wouldn't completely stop murder as they'd start making their own but at least it would slow it down a bit.
Chris Rock school of thinking
I remember gun nuts using that Australia attack as another example of why gun control doesn't work. Lost on him that the guy used a 50 year old shot gun that limited his ability to kill. He of course killed just 1 person.
Yea this idiotic line of thinking from the NRA crowd always gets me.
"If everyone was carrying then the terrorists would have been stopped much faster and lives saved"
Yea, sure, because all those people in the street shitting themselves at what's going on would be able to calmly identify the targets and take clean shots to bring them down. There's no way they'd miss and hit other innocent people. There's no way there would be confusion when 50 people all drew guns at the same time and nobody would incorrectly shoot another wannabe helper because they saw a gun.
Nope, it would be clean as day, a hero would rise and take down the 3 suspects with 3 shots and everyone else would be fine.
Idiots.
Even if that was true how many more unrelated deaths would be caused by the general public carrying loaded guns all the time? Almost certainly more than what somebody might be able to prevent in a terrorist attack.
Well there's been 863 unintentional shootings in the US so far in 2017, so, a lot.
@langster @senorgregster
If it makes y'all feel better, even I said last night that the gun laws in the UK have prevented these last few attacks from being much worse
If it makes y'all feel better, even I said last night that the gun laws in the UK have prevented these last few attacks from being much worse
It does for sure. I'm very antigun but recognize they aren't going away in the USA. Hopefully regulations can be enacted one day. I actually feel physically sick when I see one. Ive started to get used to seeing police with them but still feel uneasy around police knowing they have a loaded gun near me.
Mate you are a sensible, intelligent gun owner. The same as the sadly missed @Dwazza
Two people who can articulately defend gun ownership.
Shame about his spelling though, right?Mate you are a sensible, intelligent gun owner. The same as the sadly missed @Dwazza
Two people who can articulately defend gun ownership.
I'm on my phone mate so I might be missing something unless you mean his use of "y'all"Nah I just keep winding up our man @Carolina Red about American's spelling the words of our language wrong
Nah I just keep winding up our man @Carolina Red about American's spelling the words of our language wrong
And so you should, he's supposed to be a teacher so he should know better. Peasant!
You realize out of a population of 340mil only about 55-56 mil own guns.
Everyone doesn't have a gun.
Of course those 55mil own 250mil guns
I find that the roughly 5 guns to 1 person ratio is a psychological issue. It's akin to someone collecting dolls, or cats, or baseball cards, or whatever. It's a hobby to that person and in some cases it's an extreme illness. The one striking difference is this particular hobby/obsession can kill people as accidental deaths and suicides are far more likely to occur (something like 4x higher odds) in residences where a gun is available. And possessing a gun amongst those that become obsessed in the culture of often leads to legal carry/concealment, intimidation, etc.
Shoot, I can read Chaucer's English. I just choose not to write in itAnd so you should, he's supposed to be a teacher so he should know better. Peasant!
Shoot, I can read Chaucer's English. I just choose not to write in it
Uncultured oaf.
Something bad going on in Orlando
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/05/us/orlando-fatalities/index.html?adkey=bn
No details yet, so I did not want to create a thread. But immediately the mind goes to a workplace shooting.
EDIT: Yup another shooting
http://www.wftv.com/news/local/depu...-orange-county-casualties-confirmed/529931995
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/05/us/orlando-fatalities/index.html?adkey=bn
No details yet, so I did not want to create a thread. But immediately the mind goes to a workplace shooting.
EDIT: Yup another shooting
http://www.wftv.com/news/local/depu...-orange-county-casualties-confirmed/529931995
I don't trust a lot of cops and military people with guns, let alone regular folk. It's too little too late in the US. I'm one of the few LEOs against gun ownership. Countries in Asia and European that don't have gun ownership got it right. No senseless shootings or deadly rampages
This is 2017 so far, so 5 months and a few days.
We've had to watch a video of what to do if there's a workplace shooting. Insane if you step back a bit and look at it.
What's the general advice? Duck and cover?
1. Run
2. Duck, cover. Lock doors if possible
3. Fight. Swarm from multiple sides. Use anything to disable assailant
4. When police arrive, show empty hands
I think we had this mentioned before. It generally runs like this.
First choice, if you can, is of course to run like hell and get out there.
If that is not an option, then find a place to hide/shelter in place, barricade doors if you can, etc. Then wait for help to arrive.
Last option is if you have no other choice be prepared to fight for your life. Again this is the LAST resort, ie when the gunman is going to shoot you and you have no other options, nobody is suggesting that you go out looking to confront the shooter. (I say this because last time this was discuss, there were a few posters who interpreted it that way).
Just because I remember it, doesn't mean everyone has to. Heck, it might be one of those things my brain is just thinking it remembers.
But it is a very bizarre thing to have to sit through. Usually it is part of an overall safety program. What to do in case of fire? What to do in case of accident/health issue with a fellow employee? How to handle a bomb threat (had to do this one when I worked at a Mall, both for real security concerns and the fact that 3 or so times a year someone would think it was funny to call one in)? If you work in a place that might get held up, then what to do in that situation.
Most of it is very much common sense, but companies review it just to make sure all the employees get the information and hopefully remember it if needed. I used to have sit through this once a year at my old place of work, took about half an hour to go over all the safety stuff.
Yea it's fair enough that these things have to be covered, I used to work in a government building and we had regular bomb evacuation drills. Just having to think about shooting incidents is crazy though, as necessary as it obviously is. Just a sad state of affairs.
You realize out of a population of 340mil only about 55-56 mil own guns.
Everyone doesn't have a gun.
Of course those 55mil own 250mil guns
out of Curiousity of the 350 million , how many are under 18? I assume you cant be a gun owner legally at 13 years old.
Federal law prohibits hand gun ownership by anyone under the age of 18.
The issue for long guns (rifle's and shot guns typically used for hunting) is cloudier, and varies from state to state.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...own-a-rife-or-shotgun/?utm_term=.365b377b6a4e
The ones with no minimum make my state (NY look almost sane with having it at 16). Illinois is the only one that has it at 21. You see mostly the usual suspects with non minimum age, but then you notice California, Massachusetts, Connecticut on the list. Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire are a little surprising except for the hunting aspect. Idaho is surprise the other way, as is Florida and Oklahoma, they have gone with 18.
So yes in most states a 13 year old could own a rifle. But there are also federal and state laws limiting who can buy a long gun. So a 13 year might be able to own one, but not buy one themselves (they would have to say have it given to them by a relative). yes it is crazy.