Gun control

Stan Jefferson said:
Whenever this discussion comes up there is always the argument from gun owners that if somebody comes into their house they want to be able to defend their family from the intruder and therefore need a gun. Something has always struck me as a bit odd about this, maybe its just me but I've never had this fear and yet it seems to be a very common thing for gun owners in the US to say. Is it something to do with the idea that an intruder in the US is almost certain to have a gun themselves? Whenever I imagine a burglary in the UK v the US I do imagine very different things to be honest and I know which situation I feel more comfortable with personally.
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A lot more people in the US live outside of dense urban areas where police response times are longer. Combine that with the gun saturation and media frenzy regarding violent crime and it's a somewhat understandable perspective. Contrary to what gets portrayed in some outlets, most of those people hope that they never have to use a gun to protect themselves.

There's also a difference with Castle law in the US whereas the UK likely follows a duty to retreat model. But I'm just speculating there.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I wouldn't be shocked or offended by a sign about dogs. Big, scary or otherwise.
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Right, you'd appreciate the warning.

With the number of states that allow people to carry and the high probability of pawn shops being held up by armed assailants the sign makes sense. Keep in mind that pawn shops also take in a lot of used guns and some people might think it's acceptable to walk in with a rifle or pistol in hand, unwittingly creating a dangerous situation. I could still do without the tasteless attempt at gun culture kitsch, though.
 
Dwazza Van Hernandez said:
Right, you'd appreciate the warning.

With the number of states that allow people to carry and the high probability of pawn shops being held up by armed assailants the sign makes sense. Keep in mind that pawn shops also take in a lot of used guns and some people might think it's acceptable to walk in with a rifle or pistol in hand, unwittingly creating a dangerous situation. I could still do without the tasteless attempt at gun culture kitsch, though.
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That's the crux of it. It's macho bullshit, masquerading as a health and safety warning. All part of the gun culture which seems so pervasive in a lot of America but it completely alien to most Europeans.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's the crux of it. It's macho bullshit, masquerading as a health and safety warning. All part of the gun culture which seems so pervasive in a lot of America but it completely alien to most Europeans.
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Agree with you there. I'd prefer if the sign didn't attempt to deflect from the serious nature of the message. Perhaps part of the problem they have is that culturally so many seem to actively ignore that guns are extremely dangerous and require one's utmost care and attention.
 
Eboue said:
There's controversy in Michigan now because some school districts are trying to ban guns on the premises. A father picking up his daughter was carrying and was asked to leave, he is suing the district now.
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Do you have open carry down there, Ebs?
 
Eboue said:
Both are generally allowed but in gun free zones, people with concealed pistol licenses can open carry but they can't concealed carry.
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That's like some kind of anti-gravity loophole where the laws of the universe and common sense do not apply. I'll assume the state does not consider gun free zones to be its responsibility.
 
Loopholes in the loopholes. It's like holding a mirror up to another mirror. Endless loopholes.

How's it going, Mofo?
 
Pimpmofo said:
Its so big though, unless you add the shoulder stock, then its so small. Be fun at the range. I ordered a 460XVR 14" last night, I've never had a wheel before so its a first for me.
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In Canada we get them with a folding stock. None of that SBR classification stuff to worry about.

The XVR will be an interesting one. Wheel guns are generally so well balanced that everyone has better accuracy with one. Though I'm not sure how such a long barrel will affect balance on the one you're getting. You'll probably appreciate the extra weight when firing that cannon, though. Strictly target use or will you take it hunting?
 
Both, I'm getting the 14" so I can get more velocity and range out of it for hunting. I was looking at the Super Redhawk 44m for a long time but found this and with the muzzle break it shouldn't be too bad to shoot. 250 meters and its still accurate enough and has more than enough energy for big game, and its a pistol. That just seems crazy to me.
 
Pimpmofo said:
Both, I'm getting the 14" so I can get more velocity and range out of it for hunting. I was looking at the Super Redhawk 44m for a long time but found this and with the muzzle break it shouldn't be too bad to shoot. 250 meters and its still accurate enough and has more than enough energy for big game, and its a pistol. That just seems crazy to me.
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:lol: it's got greater range than my .30-30!
 
In Memphis, another little child has picked up a gun, with tragic consequences.

A 4-year-old child was fatally shot Tuesday evening after finding a gun.

It happened around 6:30 p.m. at a home in the 4300 block of Egyptian Cove in Raleigh.

Shelby County Sheriff's deputies were on the scene trying to piece together what exactly happened.

They say the child's mother left to go to the store and his father was outside mowing the yard. There were several children inside the house watching TV, including the 4-year-old victim. At some point, the child wandered off from the others, found the gun and shot himself once in the head. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

"At this time, it clearly looks to be an accidental shooting, but again, we're going to do our due diligence and conduct a thorough investigation. Hearts and prayers go out to the family. This is a deeply concerning and tragic loss for all concerned," said SCSO PIO Chip Washington.

Investigators have not said where the gun was in the home or if there will be any charges filed.
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http://www.localmemphis.com/story/d...idental-shooting/26663/y6n5oRQuZkWQXRGpKvHQQA
 
You'd think they should prosecute for gross negligence but how do you punish someone who has lost a child in such a fashion?
 
Grinner said:
You'd think they should prosecute for gross negligence but how do you punish someone who has lost a child in such a fashion?
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It's the casual non-security of the weapons that seems to be a recurring problem. We've had a few cases recently where a child has found a gun in a handbag or in this case, just presumably lying somewhere within his reach.

I realise that having the right to own guns is non-negotiable for some Americans, but if they have them, surely they should be obliged to have a gunsafe in the house, or at the very least a lockable cupboard of some sort? People who hunt seem more clued-up about this kind of thing than those who carry handguns for 'personal security'.
 
Been saying it for years, lock them up when they are unattended and buy yourself a shoulder holster so you can keep your home secure while you're in it. Loaded and set in a drawer or under a bed isn't much use for self defence and it leads to sensless tragedies like these.
 
So so sad. If you ever see a small child pick up toy guns or hoses or anything else with a trigger its alarming as they are invariably aiming at their faces. Honestly the parents should be charged with manslaughter. Sounds harsh I'm sure.
 
I hope you won't mind if I move the discussion here since gun control is concerned.

ghagua said:
Here in the U.S, gun proponents say that guns don't kill, it's the people. My question is, what is the sole purpose of a gun?

No matter how many laws they want to introduce, or how much background checks they want to perform, it will not stop people from getting their hands on a gun. This guy in South Carolina was given a gun by his father for his birthday, the Sandy Hook killer's mother took to the shooting range for practice even though she knew he had a mental problem, eventually he took her guns and killed her and massacred all those children. There way too many examples to list here.

The only way to reduce this type of incidents is to ban guns altogether. Make it a law that no one can own guns, people who own guns need to give them up. Not everyone will given them up, but it will reduce the possibility of anyone getting their hands on a gun.

Currently, there are states where you do not need a permit to purchase or carry a gun, South Carolina being one of those states. You can walk into a lot of stores and just purchase then like anything else. It's harder to purchase cigarettes in some states than to purchase a gun.
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I think at some point, gun ownership will have to be abolished unconditionally. After Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Charleston and other cases where children are killed by guns for XYZ reasons, people probably have enough. I was reading just now an article from 2012 about how Japan managed to make their land virtually gun-free, so that's probably where I don't quite agree with you about the lack of effectiveness about background checks. Here is what the author had to say about the procedure to become a gun owner:

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.
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Just looking at how long, time-consuming and costly this procedure is, it's more than enough to discourage a vast majority of people on any attempt to own a gun. The part about locking and storing the weapon and the ammo goes back to a matter of being either negligent or mindful. Furthermore, the types of guns that can be owned are heavily restricted. The original line in the law says that no one can own a gun or a sword; from there, exceptions for ownership are only made if you pass the tight procedure above. That's where I agree with the concept of banning gun ownership. For the record, even police officers in Japan don't carry firearms on them when they patrol in the streets these days.

Of course, changing American mentalities wouldn't be easy since people in the US don't trust law enforcement as much as the Japanese do for their own police force historically. Some people might say that Japan is like a police state under those conditions, but it still appears better than all the crap we hear about US police officers shooting people dead. If the endgame is that almost no one (including police officers on duty) owns/carries a gun and that homicide rates go down by a big margin, all those laws and tight procedures for exceptional cases would be worth all of their money.

Before someone rants about how banning gun ownership would be a risk to the security of a free state, here is the concluding sentence of the article:

Though it's worth considering another police state here: Tunisia, which had the lowest firearm ownership rate in the world (one gun per thousand citizens, compared to America's 890) when its people toppled a brutal, 24-year dictatorship and sparked the Arab Spring.
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Kakeru said:
I hope you won't mind if I move the discussion here since gun control is concerned.



I think at some point, gun ownership will have to be abolished unconditionally. After Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Charleston and other cases where children are killed by guns for XYZ reasons, people probably have enough. I was reading just now an article from 2012 about how Japan managed to make their land virtually gun-free, so that's probably where I don't quite agree with you about the lack of effectiveness about background checks. Here is what the author had to say about the procedure to become a gun owner:



Just looking at how long, time-consuming and costly this procedure is, it's more than enough to discourage a vast majority of people on any attempt to own a gun. The part about locking and storing the weapon and the ammo goes back to a matter of being either negligent or mindful. Furthermore, the types of guns that can be owned are heavily restricted. The original line in the law says that no one can own a gun or a sword; from there, exceptions for ownership are only made if you pass the tight procedure above. That's where I agree with the concept of banning gun ownership. For the record, even police officers in Japan don't carry firearms on them when they patrol in the streets these days.

Of course, changing American mentalities wouldn't be easy since people in the US don't trust law enforcement as much as the Japanese do for their own police force historically. Some people might say that Japan is like a police state under those conditions, but it still appears better than all the crap we hear about US police officers shooting people dead. If the endgame is that almost no one (including police officers on duty) owns/carries a gun and that homicide rates go down by a big margin, all those laws and tight procedures for exceptional cases would be worth all of their money.

Before someone rants about how banning gun ownership would be a risk to the security of a free state, here is the concluding sentence of the article:
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United States is a whole different beast compared to Japan and gun control. As i mentioned, Columbine, Sandy Hook, South Carolina, these killers did not purchase the guns themselves, their parents either gave them the weapons or they had access to their parents guns. So no matter how strong the background check is, people will have easy access to guns.

As for banning guns altogether, i know i mentioned it, but it's not going to happen. Too many politicians receive financial kickbacks from the NRA and other such groups to ban guns totally.

This sort of gun violence will continue to happen in the United States until the time when all guns are banned.
 
ghagua said:
United States is a whole different beast compared to Japan and gun control. As i mentioned, Columbine, Sandy Hook, South Carolina, these killers did not purchase the guns themselves, their parents either gave them the weapons or they had access to their parents guns. So no matter how strong the background check is, people will have easy access to guns.

As for banning guns altogether, i know i mentioned it, but it's not going to happen. Too many politicians receive financial kickbacks from the NRA and other such groups to ban guns totally.

This sort of gun violence will continue to happen in the United States until the time when all guns are banned.
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Its not just the politicians though. If someone came up with a way to ban them, I'm sure people would at least listen to the ideas. There's close to 300 million guns in circulation by some estimates and very few are registered. I own many guns and not a single one is registered but all are completely legal. If they banned guns and the police came to my house to collect mine, all I'd have to say is I sold them and I don't remember who I sold them to. There's a lot of people here that would do that too. They could make them illegal but people would still have access to them and use them for these mass killings because they don't exactly care if they get caught. The only people that would give up their guns peacefully are the ones that wouldn't cause problems with the guns anyway.

I'm all for more gun control. I have and use them a lot for hunting and target shooting and enjoy the sporting uses I get out of them. If they banned guns here, I would give everyone of them up and find a new hobby, but I'm in the minority I think. There's not a lot of left leaning people with guns like me that are wanting stricter gun control laws, and the majority of right leaning gun owners are the ones that wouldn't give them up.
 
Pimpmofo said:
Its not just the politicians though. If someone came up with a way to ban them, I'm sure people would at least listen to the ideas. There's close to 300 million guns in circulation by some estimates and very few are registered. I own many guns and not a single one is registered but all are completely legal. If they banned guns and the police came to my house to collect mine, all I'd have to say is I sold them and I don't remember who I sold them to. There's a lot of people here that would do that too. They could make them illegal but people would still have access to them and use them for these mass killings because they don't exactly care if they get caught. The only people that would give up their guns peacefully are the ones that wouldn't cause problems with the guns anyway.

I'm all for more gun control. I have and use them a lot for hunting and target shooting and enjoy the sporting uses I get out of them. If they banned guns here, I would give everyone of them up and find a new hobby, but I'm in the minority I think. There's not a lot of left leaning people with guns like me that are wanting stricter gun control laws, and the majority of right leaning gun owners are the ones that wouldn't give them up.
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I suppose you just then have to make it a mandatory 20 years sentence for having a gun and life if you are found with a gun and ammo - and if the police see somebody with a gun there is a shoot on site policy ( you know they could pretend people with guns are black for example) - would that stop people keeping hold of guns?

I know this is a little simplistic but I cant help but think of

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Pogue Mahone said:
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/20...favourite-american-shooting-so-far-this-year/
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Comments on that after someone mentioned mass stabbings in China were common (so "don't take our guns" or something):
Jolie Bonnette said:
It's a hell of a lot easier to get away from some fool with a knife than some fool with a weapon that can kill you from a good distance away.
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Simon Jester said:
Actually that is utterly WRONG Jolie Bonette. The adage is run AWAY from a knife.Run TOWARDS the gun! A knife will do serious damage to a person once you are in close contact.Having a gun at a knife fight can be utterly fatal as you have to draw it cock it aim and fire. If youe knife attacker is within 21 feet of you he can be on you and have fatally cut you within that time frame.Suggest you google the "21 foot rule in a knife fight" Any fool can operate a knife at close range.
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They're all commandos over there. Surprised he didn't mention something with centre of mass.
 
Bury Red said:
Truly mind boggling numbers, it's clear that the only answer is more guns so that people can defend themselves.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-innocent-people-die-10333734.html?icn=puff-1
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I recently read a post on Facebook from some half-wit attacking Obama for implying the states has a problem with gun crime. They mentioned half a dozen examples of other gun massacres (Dunblane, Breivik, etc.) from a bunch of different countries over a span of about 20 years as proof that America isn't unique. As though two decades of similar incidents from the whole of the rest of the world resulting in a comparable death toll to America in the last year alone is proof positive that Obama is over-reacting. It got thousands of likes too. There's a whole lot of idiots who love guns.
 
We have two escaped prisoners here in NY State at least one of whom is a convicted murderer. The cops were searching one property where a siting was made of a suspicious person. The media was interviewing a nearby homeowner who with her kids running around playing behind her told the reporter how she now keeps a loaded handgun in her kitchen table. What a dip shit.
 
JustAFan said:
We have two escaped prisoners here in NY State at least one of whom is a convicted murderer. The cops were searching one property where a siting was made of a suspicious person. The media was interviewing a nearby homeowner who with her kids running around playing behind her told the reporter how she now keeps a loaded handgun in her kitchen table. What a dip shit.
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With all them jackbooted, military-spec rozzers bowling about I'm amazed there haven't been more shootings or beatings of innocents. I bet when they find the pair that they unleash several hundred bullets and blow the shit out of whatever barn they are hiding in.
 
Grinner said:
With all them jackbooted, military-spec rozzers bowling about I'm amazed there haven't been more shootings or beatings of innocents. I bet when they find the pair that they unleash several hundred bullets and blow the shit out of whatever barn they are hiding in.
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The barn was acting threateningly
 
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