Gun control

Think of the psychological effect on the child when he grows up. Damn that's rough... One job America, one job.
 
There should be a law that states you have to declare "I care more about having a gun than the safety of those that I love" before you can get a gun.
 
Would I be right to assume she must have left the safety off with the gun fully loaded?

I know nothing about guns, but I assume they all come with safety mechanisms?

Edit:

I've just been told they don't all come with a safety mechanism.
 
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Bill.s.preston said:
Would I be right to assume she must have left the safety off with the gun fully loaded?
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Doesn't matter, mate. The kid probably saw his mother reloading/cleaning her gun many times and learned the pattern when to reach it without her looking.

Mother takes most the blame but America hardly learn from anything. It's all coming down to situation when they'll have to take the guns away from stupid people and sadly they may be forced of taking guns of wise people too in the process... and that's quite sad.
 
Silent_Running said:
that's horrendous
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Maxii said:
Jesus, that's the first I've heard about that. Why hasn't this had any media attention when the rest of the recent killings have? Or have I just missed it?

Picking up a gun, in a store that sells guns, and he gets shot dead. Things are just going from bad to worse in America.
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That's not even the worst episode of police brutality this year!

The killing of 12 year old Tamir Rice for the crime of carrying a bb gun in a park in November is the worst imo.
The police car stormed the park and the officer shot the kid in under 3 seconds... No warning.. Nothing.

The icing on the cake is the officer in question was deemed "unfit for police work" by another police precinct. He just transferred to another department.... And yes, of course, Tamir Rice was black:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...police-shooting-of-12-year-old-cleveland-boy/

The link contains the actual video of the murder.
 
ravi2 said:
That's not even the worst episode of police brutality this year!

The killing of 12 year old Tamir Rice for the crime of carrying a bb gun in a park in November is the worst imo.
The police car stormed the park and the officer shot the kid in under 3 seconds... No warning.. Nothing.

The icing on the cake is the officer in question was deemed "unfit for police work" by another police precinct. He just transferred to another department.... And yes, of course, Tamir Rice was black:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...police-shooting-of-12-year-old-cleveland-boy/

The link contains the actual video of the murder.
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What the feck is wrong with the Police in America, I know I’m being stereotypical here but the Police seem to be full of racist gun happy idiots. Obviously I’m only going by the stories I’ve heard and I’m sure the Police as a whole do a good job, but there’s just so many of these stories for it to be a coincidence.
 
Getsme said:
What the feck is wrong with the Police in America, I know I’m being stereotypical here but the Police seem to be full of racist gun happy idiots. Obviously I’m only going by the stories I’ve heard and I’m sure the Police as a whole do a good job, but there’s just so many of these stories for it to be a coincidence.
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There are bad officers for sure but I know some very good officers.

For improvement, both "sides" have to work on it. There needs to be mutual respect. They put their lives on the line every single day. Their spouses worry sick every single day. I hate when I hear the all too often bad jokes or totally unwarranted jabs at the police for this very reason (to be clear this is not directed at you in anyway whatsoever). Today I was at a check out with a female officer and I took the time to thank her for her service to our community. I try to do that whenever I can. I hope it helps. Perhaps if many people did that it would make a difference from our "side"? Either way, I hope the police depts are cleared of scum to leave just the good ones. Naive I know.
 
Ignoring the law, shouldn't these guns come with a safety? Do you even tell the kid when they are older (given he my be too young to remember)?

Surely if you are a business owner you can state nobody is allowed on your premises with a gun? That would then make them leave it in the car. If people want to protect themselves 'on the street' and that's the law fair enough but imagine being in a workplace (or the relative safety of a supermarket) and anyone is carrying a gun.

ravi2 said:
That's not even the worst episode of police brutality this year!

The killing of 12 year old Tamir Rice for the crime of carrying a bb gun in a park in November is the worst imo.
The police car stormed the park and the officer shot the kid in under 3 seconds... No warning.. Nothing.

The icing on the cake is the officer in question was deemed "unfit for police work" by another police precinct. He just transferred to another department.... And yes, of course, Tamir Rice was black:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...police-shooting-of-12-year-old-cleveland-boy/

The link contains the actual video of the murder.
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That's awful. No excuses whether poorly trained officers or not. It's almost as if it is pre-meditated in the way they drove the car on the grass at that speed. They clearly identified him and he was posing no immediate threat to any member of the public as nobody was there when they pulled up.

It doesn't surprise me though as with anything there are good and bad people wherever you go. No doubt there are similar instances but with a real gun and no video evidence and it is still handled the same. The police have to look after themselves but they should do so professionally not like a vigilante.
 
ravi2 said:
That's not even the worst episode of police brutality this year!

The killing of 12 year old Tamir Rice for the crime of carrying a bb gun in a park in November is the worst imo.
The police car stormed the park and the officer shot the kid in under 3 seconds... No warning.. Nothing.

The icing on the cake is the officer in question was deemed "unfit for police work" by another police precinct. He just transferred to another department.... And yes, of course, Tamir Rice was black:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...police-shooting-of-12-year-old-cleveland-boy/

The link contains the actual video of the murder.
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Terrible to see. It's hard to comprehend that police will just shoot children without a second thought.

In the case of the John Crawford Walmart shooting it appears that the 911 caller embellished what was happening, claiming Crawford was loading the gun and pointing it at children. Sadly in the aftermath of the shooting a 39yr old shopper apparently had a heart attack and died also.

http://www.whio.com/videos/news/911-call-surveillance-video-together/vCtDnb/

The link shows the store video synchronised with the 911 call
 
Red Diva said:
Terrible to see. It's hard to comprehend that police will just shoot children without a second thought.

In the case of the John Crawford Walmart shooting it appears that the 911 caller embellished what was happening, claiming Crawford was loading the gun and pointing it at children. Sadly in the aftermath of the shooting a 39yr old shopper apparently had a heart attack and died also.

http://www.whio.com/videos/news/911-call-surveillance-video-together/vCtDnb/

The link shows the store video synchronised with the 911 call
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The nail in the coffin is nothing EVER usually happens to these officers.
Their abysmal conviction rates rivals the conviction rates of military rapists.

They get put on administrative paid leave and the whole thing goes away.....and if by some miracle the plaintiff get s a settlement....who pays?? Not them....the taxpayer.

The system is completely rigged....and New York officers turn their backs on their mayor when they see him because he dares not to bow to their corrupt feet.
I thought mandatory body cameras would really help, but in the Eric Gardner case (which was ruled a homicide)... The video did not affect the court proceedings in any way.
 
senorgregster said:
There are bad officers for sure but I know some very good officers.

For improvement, both "sides" have to work on it. There needs to be mutual respect. They put their lives on the line every single day. Their spouses worry sick every single day. I hate when I hear the all too often bad jokes or totally unwarranted jabs at the police for this very reason (to be clear this is not directed at you in anyway whatsoever). Today I was at a check out with a female officer and I took the time to thank her for her service to our community. I try to do that whenever I can. I hope it helps. Perhaps if many people did that it would make a difference from our "side"? Either way, I hope the police depts are cleared of scum to leave just the good ones. Naive I know.
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I live in Canada and there is respect on both sides. I like the police here.
However when I lived in Florida, it was a completely different story, they are straight up assholes and blatantly racist.
 
I don't think I'll ever understand the gun culture in the US. I'm not fan of the guy but I remember a few years ago when Piers Morgan was tweeting something along the lines of 'guns should be banned in the US' and I remember him getting loads of abuse for Americans, a lot of them telling him to go back to the UK etc.

I'd like to talk to someone who is pro guns, genuinely don't understand why or how someone would be.
 
A horrific tragedy, but one that will no doubt rekindle the gun control debate. I personally support laws that prohibit bringing firearms into shopping malls and university campuses, but such laws won't solve much of anything except the occasional accidental shooting which may be reason enough to pass such laws.

I know that part of Idaho fairly well and it's a very safe place, unless you're a nonhuman mammal or a duck. There was no need whatsoever for the mom to bring her heat to Wal-Mart. In your truck, fine; home, fine. But FFS whenever a child is present make it physically impossible for the child to obtain the gun.

I will do not own a gun but the right to own a gun is guaranteed by our Bill of Rights and I'm not interested in chipping away at the Bill of Rights. But that doesn't mean state laws that allow keeping a gun handy at shopping malls are a good idea.
 
Most workplaces that I know of do not allow employees to bring their personal firearms to work with them. Certainly a store or any other business being a private establishment can ban firearms but the problem will be in enforcing it. Legally not sure they would have a right to stop and frisk anyone entering their store (though maybe they do since you can get searched going into concerts, sporting events, etc).
 
Gannicus said:
I will do not own a gun but the right to own a gun is guaranteed by our Bill of Rights and I'm not interested in chipping away at the Bill of Rights. But that doesn't mean state laws that allow keeping a gun handy at shopping malls are a good idea.
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Keeping guns legal just because it's in the constitution is just plain daft.
 
senorgregster said:
There are bad officers for sure but I know some very good officers.

For improvement, both "sides" have to work on it. There needs to be mutual respect. They put their lives on the line every single day. Their spouses worry sick every single day. I hate when I hear the all too often bad jokes or totally unwarranted jabs at the police for this very reason (to be clear this is not directed at you in anyway whatsoever). Today I was at a check out with a female officer and I took the time to thank her for her service to our community. I try to do that whenever I can. I hope it helps. Perhaps if many people did that it would make a difference from our "side"? Either way, I hope the police depts are cleared of scum to leave just the good ones. Naive I know.
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See, whats is so disturbing about this is that you are talking about this being an issue of this being a "bad officer" as opposed to one who hasn't followed protocol and legislation which should give even the most retarded police office a very clear set of rules of engagement therefore not leaving any room for the "bad officers" as you put it to make a mistake without there being a very clear line being correct procedure and incorrect procedure as well as automatically set out consequences.

The fact that a "bad officer" is in a position to make mistakes such as this that have life altering consequences for both their victims and the families they leave behind is ludicrous. You contrast this with the case of the killers of Lee Rigby (where a firearm was spotted) and Raoul Moat and even when firearms are involved the primary directive of the Police force in England is still preservation of life, so to take the suspect(s) alive and you begin to see the problem. As a country you put too much power in not just the hands of your citizen (no ordinary citizen should have the kind of right over the power of life and death that a gun provides) but also your police force (which is mainly as a result of the first feckup by allowing your citizen to arm themselves).

There is no way to completely "clear the police depts of scum" as outside of psychiatric evaluations I really don't see how you can predict what a lot of these officers will do when faced with a situation like this, in fact I'm pretty sure you can't tell what they will do even after such an evaluation until they actually make a grave mistake which 9/10 will cost a life.


Gannicus said:
I will do not own a gun but the right to own a gun is guaranteed by our Bill of Rights and I'm not interested in chipping away at the Bill of Rights. But that doesn't mean state laws that allow keeping a gun handy at shopping malls are a good idea.
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Your bill of rights are taken from the rules set out by your founding fathers, the same founding fathers who kept slaves, and yet as an American you still cling to their teachings as if they have some profound relevance in today's society. Society has changed beyond all recognition from the one they lived in. Isn't it time you stepped into this century instead of living in the past?
 
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ZIDANE said:
Ignoring the law, shouldn't these guns come with a safety? Do you even tell the kid when they are older (given he my be too young to remember)?
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Some, like Glocks, don't have a safety. They are designed for shooting without fail and with no fumbling around trying to get it ready to fire. Glocks are very popular with police and they are good for what they are designed for. They are unfortunately also very popular with stupid people that think they need to carry a gun all the time.

ZIDANE said:
Surely if you are a business owner you can state nobody is allowed on your premises with a gun? That would then make them leave it in the car. If people want to protect themselves 'on the street' and that's the law fair enough but imagine being in a workplace (or the relative safety of a supermarket) and anyone is carrying a gun
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Every business owner has the option to put up signs in their windows to not allow guns in their place of business. There are a few states that even make ignoring the sign against the law. There are more states though that say people don't have to pay attention to the sign and that it is unconstitutional. Concealed carry is bad about that too. I mean if nobody knows you have a gun, they can't get you in trouble but they sure are going to be happy when you save the day with the gun you aren't supposed to have when a minority shows up to do their shopping.

saivet said:
I don't think I'll ever understand the gun culture in the US. I'm not fan of the guy but I remember a few years ago when Piers Morgan was tweeting something along the lines of 'guns should be banned in the US' and I remember him getting loads of abuse for Americans, a lot of them telling him to go back to the UK etc.
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Piers is a douchebag and he was hated here long before he came out with his gun control stuff. A lot of people, even people that don't like guns, didn't like someone from across the pond showing up telling the country how they should be doing things.

saivet said:
I'd like to talk to someone who is pro guns, genuinely don't understand why or how someone would be.
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I am, kind of. I'm very much for most forms of gun control but I also own a lot.

Gannicus said:
A horrific tragedy, but one that will no doubt rekindle the gun control debate. I personally support laws that prohibit bringing firearms into shopping malls and university campuses, but such laws won't solve much of anything except the occasional accidental shooting which may be reason enough to pass such laws.

I know that part of Idaho fairly well and it's a very safe place, unless you're a nonhuman mammal or a duck. There was no need whatsoever for the mom to bring her heat to Wal-Mart. In your truck, fine; home, fine. But FFS whenever a child is present make it physically impossible for the child to obtain the gun.

I will do not own a gun but the right to own a gun is guaranteed by our Bill of Rights and I'm not interested in chipping away at the Bill of Rights. But that doesn't mean state laws that allow keeping a gun handy at shopping malls are a good idea.
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Absolutely. I've read on forums that a 'no guns' sign in the window of a business is just an invitation to criminals to rob the store. It might also be an invitation to regular people that just don't want to be shot too, but that doesn't fit into their commando way of life.

JustAFan said:
Most workplaces that I know of do not allow employees to bring their personal firearms to work with them. Certainly a store or any other business being a private establishment can ban firearms but the problem will be in enforcing it. Legally not sure they would have a right to stop and frisk anyone entering their store (though maybe they do since you can get searched going into concerts, sporting events, etc).
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There are places that are illegal to have a gun by federal law, like schools and government buildings. Most places can prevent their employees from carrying but can't do a whole lot against the public. What if you are there and a black family walks in? Yeah, now what Mr Smartypants? Without all of us carrying guns, how are we going to stop minorities from shopping and doing other evil shit?
 
BAMSOLA said:
See, whats is so disturbing about this is that you are talking about this being an issue of this being a "bad officer" as opposed to one who hasn't followed protocol and legislation which should give even the most retarded police office a very clear set of rules of engagement therefore not leaving any room for the "bad officers" as you put it to make a mistake without there being a very clear line being correct procedure and incorrect procedure as well as automatically set out consequences.

The fact that a "bad officer" is in a position to make mistakes such as this that have life altering consequences for both their victims and the families they leave behind is ludicrous. You contrast this with the case of the killers of Lee Rigby (where a firearm was spotted) and Raoul Moat and even when firearms are involved the primary directive of the Police force is still preservation of life, so to take the suspect(s) alive and you begin to see the problem. As a country you put too much power in not just the hands of your citizen (no ordinary citizen should have the kind of right over the power of life and death that a gun provides) but also your police force (which is mainly as a result of the first feckup by allowing your citizen to arm themselves).

There is no way to completely "clear the police depts of scum" as outside of psychiatric evaluations I really don't see how you can predict what a lot of these officers will do when faced with a situation like this, in fact I'm pretty sure you can't tell what they will do even after such an evaluation until they actually make a grave mistake which 9/10 will cost a life.




Your bill of rights are taken from the rules set out by your founding fathers, the same founding fathers who kept slaves, and yet as an American you still cling to their teachings as if they have some profound relevance in today's society. Society has changed beyond all recognition from the one they lived in. Isn't it time you stepped into this century instead of living in the past?
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Ah, the guilt-by-association argument which still gets wheeled out by the bitter relativists and historicists.

When I'm at a proper laptop (iPad right now) I will school you on why the Bill of Rights is a vital component of our constitutional architecture in the United States -- by your "logic" the right to the free speech is equally discredited today because it was embraced by slaveholders in the 18th century -- and not some discredited relic of a medieval tyranny.
 
Gannicus said:
Ah, the guilt-by-association argument which still gets wheeled out by the bitter relativists and historicists.

When I'm at a proper laptop (iPad right now) I will school you on why the Bill of Rights is a vital component of our constitutional architecture in the United States -- by your "logic" the right to the free speech is equally discredited today because it was embraced by slaveholders in the 18th century -- and not some discredited relic of a medieval tyranny.
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You will never be able to "school" me on why your bill of rights entitles your citizens in most states to carry a device which allows them to take a life at the pull of a trigger, and it is that that I am arguing. My reason for raising the point about slavery is because I'm tired of hearing some Americans cling to "the right to bear arms" as if it part of a sacred and unchallengeable text. Freedom of speech is one thing as it doesn't lead direct to the taking of lives and is a benefit to society in most cases. The "right to bear arms" is costing lives either directly or indirectly practically every day in America.

Your founding fathers were not wrong about everything but there are some things that they were profoundly wrong about, slavery and "the right to bear arms" are just two of those things.

PS oh yeah and that whole treatment of Native Americans thing as well.
 
If you can't change something called an amendment what can you change?

And didn't slavery and prohibition used to be in the constitution? Not the first 10 perhaps but still there. And as far as I remember only 3 ever had protection from being changed by their own terms (are these terms now expired anyway? I vaguely remember something like that).
 
JustAFan said:
Not necessarily, she could have had a holster strapped to her body, or kept her purse away from the kid. Stupidity on her part.
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But it had a special gun pocket - what could possibly go wrong? Or perhaps she should not have been stupid enough to carry a gun in public. Just a though.

The only safe gun is one that hasn't been made yet or has been destroyed. Guns are designed to kill people and that is what they do very efficiently indeed.
 
Wibble said:
If you can't change something called an amendment what can you change?

And didn't slavery and prohibition used to be in the constitution? Not the first 10 perhaps but still there. And as far as I remember only 3 ever had protection from being changed by their own terms (are these terms now expired anyway? I vaguely remember something like that).
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Really not needed to change the amendment just pass some sane gun control laws
 
712 said:
Worked well in her case, didn't it?
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I was making the point that a gun can't be both safe and available for self defence at the same time. Lock it away and is is safer but it become useless for defense as it is locked away.
 
JustAFan said:
Really not needed to change the amendment just pass some sane gun control laws
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I'd those gun laws involve banning all guns I'd agree. Certainly all handguns and all automatic weapons. Shotguns and rifles allowed under very strict conditions maybe. It would at least reduce the death toll.
 
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