Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
Feck with the 'responsible gun owner' shit. You're all part of the problem.
See, this is exactly what I mean, exactly like above...they're a lost cause. Beyond reasoning with.
So what is the plan? Ask people to voluntarily give their guns to the government and those who do not comply, take guns away from them through force? Yeah, that's gonna go over well in USA.
I do understand the agony. I am heartbroken about what is happening in USA and I am all for harder gun policies. I was for them for a long time. If I am part of the problem then a lot of Americans are part of the problem. A lot. Not sure if you guys live in USA or not. This is a different place. Messed up and great all at the same time. More messed up lately to be honest.
As someone who lives in Chicago but has also lived in Europe for many years, I think the Highland Park shooting has hit a lot of people harder than most of the random gang violence shootouts that happen most weekends.
Highland Park is supposed to be a safe upper income suburban neighborhood.
That said, the US by and large, despite the hyperbole from many in this thread, is safe. Somebody posted the number of gun-related deaths in Chicago annually - 75% of that is gang on gang violence. For most people historically, it falls under the sad but hey, we are not gang members so it is mostly just a statistic.
What this number hides is that the number of non-gang related homicides is going up fast and has doubled in the last 3-4 years. Pandemic-induced school and community centre shutdowns, along with some parts of the internet promoting and encouraging incel culture, has accelerated the disenfranchisement of marginalized youth.
The other big issue that we don't talk about much is the dissolution of community or societal structure in general. That has always been the biggest reason why humans haven't gone completely ape-shit historically.
Obviously, guns are bad (banning ARs should be easy, banning kids from getting guns should be easy?) but just wanted to bring some nuance to the conversation.
Highland Park is supposed to be a safe upper income suburban neighborhood.
That said, the US by and large, despite the hyperbole from many in this thread, is safe. Somebody posted the number of gun-related deaths in Chicago annually - 75% of that is gang on gang violence. For most people historically, it falls under the sad but hey, we are not gang members so it is mostly just a statistic.
What this number hides is that the number of non-gang related homicides is going up fast and has doubled in the last 3-4 years. Pandemic-induced school and community centre shutdowns, along with some parts of the internet promoting and encouraging incel culture, has accelerated the disenfranchisement of marginalized youth.
The other big issue that we don't talk about much is the dissolution of community or societal structure in general. That has always been the biggest reason why humans haven't gone completely ape-shit historically.
Obviously, guns are bad (banning ARs should be easy, banning kids from getting guns should be easy?) but just wanted to bring some nuance to the conversation.
I live here. I have live in CA, WI, AL, and NC. You are right, this place is different. This country does not value life, at least not as much as money and power and selfishness. Not the lives of adults or children (although fetuses get hella love). And you are right again that a lot of Americans are part of the problem. No other western country has this level of mass shootings. No other western country has to install metal detectors in schools. No other country has to do active shooter drills. Just us. Just “exceptional” us.
I get it, you like your guns. Maybe you enjoy hunting, or target shooting. Maybe it makes you feel safe. Here’s the thing though, all those things I mentioned above, all those things that cause you agony, they all have a single thing in common. Guns.
So yes, guns are the problem and those who willfully pour money into the gun lobby are complicit in the purchase of the political power to prevent change. You don’t have to like it, but at least acknowledge it.
If you think that list was somehow supposed to convince me the death penalty is something civilised countries do, I'm sorry to disappoint.
As to your first point, it is simply absurd to think that the death penalty is not a deterrent just because it doesn't hurt. Do you think people are thinking "if I get caught they'll kill me, but at least it'll be quick and painless"? The reality is that it isn't a deterrent because nobody expects to get caught, so it doesn't truly factor into their decisions. This is not an opinion, it's a fact.
The fact you are doubling down on this is disgusting.
For people that have guns but believe in stricter legislation, there is something you can do about it, donate to gun control groups and get involved. I can not think of anywhere in the world that values economic gain quite as highly as the US and unsurprisingly gun rights groups have massively outspent gun control groups in the last few years to the tune of about 100M (145M spent by gun rights groups vs 45M by gun control. source centre for responsive government)
If the majority of US citizens are for stricter gun control, then do something about it. More children have died going to school this year than police going to work in the US, this literally does not happen anywhere else in the world. A small arms survey in 2018 showed that there were 120.5 guns per hundred people in the states, the next highest in the world was Yemen with less than half that at 52.8.
I know of three families with American/EU parentage that have left the US in the last 12 months with guns being being a primary concern. I saw another friend of mine who lives in North Carolina writing about how in the UK it is a sad moment when children leave school at 18 as they are growing up, but she was over the moon when hers left high school alive. Another who always books cinema tickets near the exit, just in case.
How can people live with this threat hanging over them? Like the abortion issue it seems the majority are being dictated to by the minority, that's not freedom and that's not democracy, that's fecked up. But US citizens are the only ones who can change this, but they don't.
If the majority of US citizens are for stricter gun control, then do something about it. More children have died going to school this year than police going to work in the US, this literally does not happen anywhere else in the world. A small arms survey in 2018 showed that there were 120.5 guns per hundred people in the states, the next highest in the world was Yemen with less than half that at 52.8.
I know of three families with American/EU parentage that have left the US in the last 12 months with guns being being a primary concern. I saw another friend of mine who lives in North Carolina writing about how in the UK it is a sad moment when children leave school at 18 as they are growing up, but she was over the moon when hers left high school alive. Another who always books cinema tickets near the exit, just in case.
How can people live with this threat hanging over them? Like the abortion issue it seems the majority are being dictated to by the minority, that's not freedom and that's not democracy, that's fecked up. But US citizens are the only ones who can change this, but they don't.
Um, that's what I just said. Nobody has been able to answer why you people need to own 15s and 47s. Removing those type of weapons from everyone would be a start. That is the only way. There really is nothing great about the US. You pretty much suck at everything. Even your law enforcement can get away with putting 60 holes in the back of unarmed black men. It's a disgusting place.
I guess the problem is that besides individuals donating to either the pro-gun or anti-gun cause, the pro-gun cause will always come out ahead in terms of donations, because they also have a massive industry on their side. On article I wrote said that the gun manufacturers had made $3 billion in profits since the pandemic. On top of that, they have decades of experience with lobbying congress to get their way.
There is no such thing as a "responsible killing machine owner", if you own a killing machine you are very much part of the problem.
There is simply no reason at all to own a killing machine, you very much have the blood of dead children on your hands, you have contributed to the killing machine companies producing more and more killing machines.
I can't find sympathy for anyone that thinks owning a killing machine is acceptable, raising the age limit is meaningless, you are still saying that it is okay for someone to buy a killing machine.
That is still being part of a death cult.
How can you say that the USA is safe, when children do killing machine drills regularly at school, when they die more often at school then anywhere else on the planet, heck Ukraine is in an actual war, and I don't think their school children have died in the same numbers as the American school children have, just this year alone!!
Cinemas are not safe, churches are not safe, parades are not safe, marathons are not safe, shops are not safe places, parks are not safe, so by all means please explain which places you think are safe places, if all of these areas are places where you can be killed by people with killing machines??
I follow Chicago closely. 10/11 neighborhoods responsible for nearly all the violence. partly I think its racial too, as to why people don't care about the actual biggest contributor to gun violence because the fact is black children die in the hundreds by catching strays and no one bats an eyelid about gun control. In fact mass shootings are only a fraction of gun deaths involving children https://time.com/6182856/children-gun-deaths-mass-shootings/. Doughboy said in Boyz in the Hood "they don't know, don't show or don't give a damn what's going on in the hood."
16 American City's broke their record for homicides last year and nobody batted an eye around gun control etc as the victims are mostly black dudes in inner city. I never understood this. its only mass shootings by random dudes that invoke conversation yet there was a mass shooting in Parkway gardens over July the 4th weekend and dozens of people get shot every year in Chicago over this period (68 people shot and 8 killed last weekend). There are also many school shootings with Dunbar high having a few but its mostly related to beef. It's interesting how "a type" of gun realated violence seems completely accepted in society. Fact is innocent people get caught in the crossfire included children and a 5 month old baby was shot in Chicago a week ago
that's true
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Somewhat akin to the tobacco industry.
Mass shooting statistics don’t include gang-related homicides for some reason. Not sure of why, maybe because the number killed would be more horrifying? And who cares about black on black (for the most part) crime?
‘feck it, we’ll do it live’ 2.0…
officially they do but not to the media narrative. its when 4 or more people being shot. there were 20 mass shootings from July 4th weekend through Monday. more were shot and killed outside of the Highland shooting. Some were block parties, regular parties, outside nightclubs etc. its crazy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022#Definitions
the sad thing its not even necessarily drug related. in the Chicago Southside they don't really move much weight as that's mostly done on the West Side. Its simply boys inheriting beef from their elders, beefing over girls, school fights and other trivial shit that has created hundreds of revenge cycles.
Just cowards the lot of them, nothing more than that, only cowards need to carry killing machines to feel good about themselves.
Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was a bureaucratic decision to separate the two.
Don't understand the death penalty argument when it comes to these cnuts with guns going on rampages. They know that they have a pretty high risk of death so the death penalty is just giving them a relatively 'easy' out and is a long process of appeals etc. that causes further distress and agony for families. Just lock them up, never allowed to get out of prison again. That's without getting into the moral aspect of killing people.
I'm neither a member or a fan of NRA. It is a BS organization that made gun owning a cult.
I do understand that something needs to be done. There were 4 mass large mass shooting in past few months. Perhaps taking "guns" is the path forward, but it is unrealistic change for this place.
First step would be some sort of a major reform where every gun has to be registered and every gun owner has to be licensed to own a gun. Even that is going to be so difficult to accomplish but it is a realistic first step. Asking people to give up their guns or to attempt to confiscate them is not going to work.
Some people here believe that their own government is their biggest threat.
I am not talking about the NRA, I am talking about the manufactures themselves. A fraction of every dollar spent on a new gun or ammunition is spent to fight gun laws.
I am not asking for the government to take all the guns away. Even if I could wave a magic wand and make them all go poof I would not as there are good reasons for some guns to exist. Having lived in WI and NC I can speak to the need for deer hunting. Good lord, the weeks before the opening of deer season in WI is like demolition derby.
The idea of licensing and registration is a start, but beyond that there needs to be a serious rethink on what type of guns are left remaining in society.
- Semiautomatic rifles? No brainer, they serve no purpose other than to speed up the ability kill multiple people.
- Handguns? Gone for the most part in my mind. No one seriously hunts with them and they are likely the number one type of weapon used in gun murders.
- Rifles? I say if the magazine is limited to 5 or fewer rounds then sure. This is fine for hunting.
-Shotguns? Again, I am fine with models which are designed for hunting.
Need to listen to Chris Rock and charge $100 per bullet.
That wouldn't change a thing.
of course is would. these young men couldn't fill up a gun that stocks 32 rounds + as thats $3200. There would be much less shootings as they would have to be sparing. bullets cost $1 so you can be reckless with it
I agree with that assessment. If bullets become more expensive, the more likely they will be keet out of the reach of reckless people.
I often say that cops being trigger-happy should be given service revolvers just like in the days and as it still is in many countries so they can stay disciplined. Making ammo more expensive would also make them think twice before unloading a gun as well. You waste one round when the situation does not justify the use, you pay for it.
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It might have a small effect, but overall it would have little effect. Uvalde shooter somehow came up with thousands to purchase his guns, do you really think having to find a bit more for ammo would have stopped him?
Unfortunately a lot of folks have never even been to the US and have such an assured hard lined stance from the likes of CNN, FOX etc. The thing is the gun laws are absurd and there is a problem with these regular shootings but statistically what you said is correct. It's difficult as is to have a conversation with polarizing Americans. Add to that a complete misunderstanding of American culture and it becomes a clusterfeck.
BTW, I think AR's should be banned but just so we are clear handguns cause a vast, vast majority of violence in the states.
Completely agree which is why they would be my first target for sever regulation. Handguns have the sole use as a tool to kill humans.
Not trying to star anything b/c I think we have reached a "respectfully agree to disagree" agreement.
If you have lived in neighborhoods that are less than ideal than I have to conclude you are either just naturally braver than I am (or others around me) or you haven't had close encounters or actually feel threatened for your life. I have. My giving up my gun does not improve anything whatsoever. The fact is I shouldn't feel threatened and that's on the politicians, not me.
As for finding the one thing in common, you know very well that logic isn't very convincing. In every crime there are thousands of things in common.
I really think its a stretch to say every gun owner is responsible for mass shootings.
I am all for severe regulation as I've said before I just don't see why I or anyone else should be first in line for the incompetence of politicians and folks voting for them. If the majority of America is still voting for GOP and pro gun nonsense I am unsafe. If regulation passes and I know the law and police is on my side and I'm not surrounded by locked and loaded lunatics I feel much, much safer.
Holy fecking shit.....
This fits in here and the US Politics thread.. There's just so much wrong here I don't know where to start
USA!
Holy fecking shit.....
This fits in here and the US Politics thread.. There's just so much wrong here I don't know where to start
USA!
I swear this a key and peele skit
Now, who wants to bet she's 'Pro life' and was ecstatic about the recent Roe v Wade result?
She is an Arizona republican, she is absolutely pro-life.