Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
You never saw what they were like before then...You mean since you are on the caf.
Has there been any recent mass endeavor of prominent Americans, about the need for gun control? Can't seem to remember. This thing needs to be talked to oblivion by celebrities, entrepreneurs, athletes, etc.
Pretty sure celebs endorse it. The NRA have too many Rep senators in their pocket. There is no way any action will be taken soon.
Forget the politicians for now, they are clearly on the NRA's payroll. I am talking about people like Zuckerberg, Musk, Gates, Buffet, constantly nagging about this in talk shows, twitter, etc. This must be discussed non stop.
Is there anyone who can give an unequivocal argument for why guns should not be banned in the near future?
The only rational argument in favour of guns remaining legal in the USA is one of self-defence. You could also advance the claim that, given the prevalence of guns (now estimated to be 300 million in circulation), a full-scale ban is simply unfeasible.
I don't think gun-advocates do themselves any favours when they invoke the Second Amendment and the need for a militia to guard against tyrannical governments. This is the 21st century - such arguments are patently nonsensical.
Of course none of this is relevant to a discussion on gun control, the need for which should be obvious to any sane person.
Even if you banned guns you'd still need to be able to enforce that ban. I'm not sure that's realistically possible in America given the level of physical and cultural saturation. Gun control is the only practically viable option in that context, I think.
Banning guns will dramatically reduce gun violence no matter how many guns will remain illegally.
Enforcing bans is pretty easy. Most people wi
Plus guns need ammo so any ban would include severe restrictions on ammo sales. It will take a very long time to purger the US of all guns but that should be the goal.
Plus guns need ammo so any ban would include severe restrictions on ammo sales. It will take a very long time to purger the US of all guns but that should be the goal.
Can't really think of a reasonable way legislation will be changed, so let's start looking at the unreasonable.
Also, how disgusting is this...
A good start would be gun control restricting sales, especially of things like AR15s. Then a government funded amnesty that paid gun owners to surrender their weapons.
Guns in general? Or specific guns?
I think when people discuss gun control in the US they forget the context in which the original laws were created. The US was a very different country when it was formed, with significantly different needs of and for its citizens. Likewise, the gun advocates today forget or obfuscate the changes the country and the world overall has undergone since so it's easy to just call yourself a "constitutionalist" and ignore simple logic.
One of the early reasons to allow for guns was the sheer size of the US compared to the countries its earliest settlers had left behind. The US was comparatively huge and much more rural than it is today. In the event of danger, it made sense for a farmer in the middle of nowhere to be armed. You couldn't simply call up the police and have them stop by to help. That's still the case for some. I think a reasonable case can be made to have guns allowed based on safety reasons.
But far more of the country is suburban/urban now, with much denser populations. The gun technology is ridiculous now - don't think that's what Thomas Jefferson and co had in mind 250 years ago.
The second amendment was not always about having this god given right to carry guns, let alone any kind you want. For most of American history, there were different Supreme Court interpretations. @Carolina Red can probably confirm this.
Any case, I read the second amendment and interpret it as the right for citizens to assemble into a militia to protect this nation. Shit literally says "well regulated" too. We have our military protecting the nation already, so this notion that all citizens get to play with guns intrigues me.
Any case, I read the second amendment and interpret it as the right for citizens to assemble into a militia to protect this nation. Shit literally says "well regulated" too. We have our military protecting the nation already, so this notion that all citizens get to play with guns intrigues me.
Its very frustrating. I am literally filled with sadness and anger at the whole situation after this weeks shooting. Its like fecking groundhog day several times a year.
There's no need for an automatic weapon, none apart from in a war zone.
Ban all but handguns, thats it. Its still bad enough but it's literally the only gun you can have and say with any credibility "it's for self defence". And licence people to own them. No brainer.
I saw someone on the news saying it's time teachers carried guns. feck. Off. School is a place for learning, it's not a fecking war zone. It's not a place for a fecking shootout.
Someone needs to make Americans aware they're not cowboys anymore and the injuns aren't coming to scalp their wives.
Something very very wrong with your country.
Ban all but handguns, thats it. Its still bad enough but it's literally the only gun you can have and say with any credibility "it's for self defence". And licence people to own them. No brainer.
I saw someone on the news saying it's time teachers carried guns. feck. Off. School is a place for learning, it's not a fecking war zone. It's not a place for a fecking shootout.
Someone needs to make Americans aware they're not cowboys anymore and the injuns aren't coming to scalp their wives.
Something very very wrong with your country.
Those are already super regulated to the point that they’re a non-factor.
Handguns are actually the most used type of gun when committing a gun related crime. It would make more sense to ban AR/AK style rifles and handguns while leaving pump, lever, and bolt action firearms alone.
Here’s what you’re looking for (from the Library of Congress)
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/second-amendment.php
Sorry if this is beyond the pale to anybody...
This and healthcare are the 2 issues that sometimes make you think something is very, very wrong with American society.
I think any kind of regulation would be better than what happens right now.
There has to be a start. Let them all register their handguns - maybe forbid people to have more than 3 per person - that law abiding citizen that is always talked about should not be bothered with it, or? - forbid the use of automatic weapons. Forbid that they are open carried if someone is not a policemen. Fine people then that have illegal weapons. Give incentitives to people that get rid of their weapons.
I fully understand that somebody in rural US where it takes the police 30 minutes to come to a place wants or maybe even needs a gun. I even understand people that like to hunt. Behind my house there is the local shooting club - I hear a lot gunshots every weekend and know that some people like the shots.
The responsible gunowner should not have any problems about that there is rules.
Will that change much - probably not as I think that some of the problems might run deeper in society. In difference to societies in North Europe where there is the idea, that there should be nobody left behind because that helps society and makes the country a better (and more secure) place to live a lot of Americans seem to think different and there is more "I" and less "We". But there for sure will be less casualities - and that is a start.
There are barely any automatic guns. There are lot of reason to have multiple guns and what problem are you solving limiting to three guns?
I really don't think so especially in the short run. Unfortunately some of the areas with the most strict gun control regulations have the highest rates of gun violence, like Chicago for instance. Prohibition did nothing to stop millions of Americans accessing alcohol throughout the 13 years of its enforcement although some still believe it was a moderate success at the least (its not like guys like Capone reported their production of illicit alcohol to the government).
Im not saying its exactly the same thing but I don't see even the long arm of the law impacting the distribution of illegal firearms into the country from the outside, let alone confiscating the 270 million guns already in this country. That would be a colossal undertaking. Will they go door to door? It would probably make the ATF even more corrupt than it already is considering the naughty business they get up to with the Cartels. Its all sounds very negative but that's the truth of it
Today you can buy an AR15 for $450, and .223 is under 30 cents a round. If the only supply was illegally via the black market the cost of an AR15 would probably be $5,000 and ammo would be at least $2 a round. You would also have to know shady people to buy the illegal guns, and there would be no where to shoot them legally. That would mean practically every mass shooter we have had the last twenty years would never have had access to guns.
That's not a certainty and you know it. It is speculated that 253k guns are illegally smuggled into the country every year and I can only see that number rising with a gun ban don't you think? I think you're underestimating a lot of people and how far they are willing to go to get their hands on the things they love. They will dig deeper in their pockets and who will stop them? That doesn't answer the question of consfiscating the 270M guns already in the country. As for no where to shoot, surely you know they're many remote areas in the boonies where good ol boys can shoot all day without a soul hearing them. I don't see the practicality of a total gun ban in America anytime soon but I feel the country is drifting in the right direction. Future generations won't be as gun crazy, I hope.
This is not a thing. Weapons are bought legally in the US and smuggled south for the drug cartels.
Up to 83% (and at least 70%) of illegal guns in Mexico were legally bought in the USA.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cking-battle-us-mexico-border-hampered-report
Ban all semi-auto weapons. Give a strict background check for all other guns. Oh and charge $50 a bullet.
The ATF themselves supply a lot of those Cartels. Inevitably with a gun ban the tables will turn very quickly the other direction. It would present a major boom for international crime syndicates. I don't see Americans giving up their guns either. How will the 270M guns be confiscated? Will the government offer to buy them?
Guns can't be grown on plantations or cooked up in makeshift labs in the jungle... The tables might turn, but isn't a wall going to be put up anyways (not that I want it, just saying)? I don't have the perfect solution, but not doing anything because the overall problem is very complicated can't be part of any solution.
For a start it would be desirable not to add another 100M guns + as will happen in the next decade if the laws stay the same.
Practically all the mass shooters had limited incomes and used cheap weapons like the Ruger 556. There is no way what so ever these people would have been able to get AR15 type weapons on the black market. Not only would weapons like that be VERY hard to source illegally the cost would be ridiculously prohibitive.
And who is smuggling guns into the country? Smugglers need good margins to make it worth their while. Hard to sell guns at a premium in a country where you can get AR15s for just over $400 new. There is a massive flow of firearms south over the border though.
What will happen to the 270M guns?
They are going to be smuggled to Mexico in the long term.
They will slowly be removed from circulation. Very few people have more guns that I do. Personally I have no problem handing them in to be destroyed if that is the law.
This is a pipedream
Slowly removed from circulation? How will that be implemented? You may be willing to let go of your guns but you can't speak for millions of other gun owners. A lot of them actually feel naked without them. The only way to fight the gun problem is to change attitudes towards them. The gun culture in America is the larger problem but like I said before, I think many people in this country are slowly moving in the right direction over the issue of gun control. A total gun ban may be feasible in future generations.
Well 50% of the guns are owned by 3% of the population. A lot of those folks will be sports shooters and gun enthusiasts like me. If they are not legal and there are no range to shoot at a lot of people will give them up. Plus if they are illegal most people wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of the law.
It's already happening... no dreaming involved. I linked the evidence, you chose to ignore it (while making false claims). It was meant to be a facetious response to your ridiculous claim that 270 million guns in the country somehow mean nothing should be attempted to address this issue.
Maybe the US government can buy guns at US retail and then sell them to the cartels.
Im not saying nothing should be attempted, im saying banning them completely will not work. Do you live in the US?
I wouldn’t mind if a system were set up for shooting enthusiasts where you could still own certain guns you’ve spent money on, which have since been banned from sale, but you have to keep them at a range.
My AR would be kept at the range, but my hunting longarms would stay with me, etc.