This pretty much sums it up for me.
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
The NRA has as much interest in protecting kids as NAMBLA.
You wish they'd spend it on free (or cheap) and proper education instead
I genuinely wonder if anyone thought for a single second "Why is it that this school-protection that we're proposing is needed?" when writing that speech. The answer is probably "no-one" though.
How can anybody think that the answer to anything is to have people carrying guns around children. Complete feckwits. On top of the obvious it will just desensitise the next generation even earlier.
Thanks for that NRA,well worth waiting for.
I honestly think this will help with Gun control legislation.
now everyone can see the only thiong the NRA cares about is selling more guns.
now everyone can see the only thiong the NRA cares about is selling more guns.
The obvious flaw in the NRA's plan is - what happens if the armed guard gets shot dead by the shooter?
all teachers should be armed....
Give every kid a gun. Clearly the only way. Level the playing field.
What could possibly go wrong.
The thing is, I can imagine a bunch of them believing this.
What could possibly go wrong.
The thing is, I can imagine a bunch of them believing this.
The even more obvious one is what happens when the armed guard IS the next shooter.
America calls itself 'the greatest society on earth'.
Who the feck wants wants their children to be educated in such a climate of fear where teachers are required to carry guns so they can kill maniac gunmen should they come calling.
This is civilisation?
I was sarcastic...but you do have idiots on teh right who have said such things.
the NRA as an organisation needs to be eliminated.
that should be the long term goal of all decent people.
Which is exactly what would happen if every school had an armed security guard. Also; need a gun to carry out the shooting? Knife the security guard and take his. Oh wait, NRA's plan is flawless - or should I say; bulletproof.
Just saw this tweet, which pretty much sums up NRA's statement:
USA is becoming a laughing-stock across the entire globe because of their attitude towards guns. The fact that the NRA prides themselves on their "children-education-programmes" (mentioned quite a few times in the videos posted above) says it all really.
Canadian, thanks.
Australia, Japan and England are surrounded by water and harder to smuggle guns, but then we can't compare any of the countries above when rape and assaults are even higher than in US (with the exception of Japan and Australia). The Japanese shouldn't be used as an example anyway. But going back to the school issue I believe they should have an armed police officer in every school. they just need to stop sending money to countries like Egypt and get out from Iraq and Afghanistan, close any base from foreign countries and they will have loads of money to pay for the police officers.
I know that you were being sarc. I was just making a general point.
Pennsylvania shooting leaves four dead while NRA rejects gun control
Three men and one woman dead, three state troopers injured in incident concurrent with controversial NRA press conference:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/21/shooting-pennsylvania-four-dead-prosecutor
Three men and one woman dead, three state troopers injured in incident concurrent with controversial NRA press conference:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/21/shooting-pennsylvania-four-dead-prosecutor
If the guard is inside the office he will know a guy is coming with a gun and the fact a mass murder wannabe knows that school as a police office I bet you he will look for another school.
How would this 2nd ammendment work in practice? If, say, Obama outlawed assault weapons, and all the Billy Joe Bob's were really offended by it. So much so, that they got in their pick up trucks with their cousin-wives, and headed for Washington to "take out the commie mooslim"... would they be within their rights to do that too? Or how does this ammendment work?
Not picking on your post in particular, Wowi, but the armed guard-police officer component is only one aspect of the NRAs proposal and they seemed to indicate that aspect would be voluntarily decided by the school districts involved.
The security planning element is one that stands out but is unsurprisingly being ignored in the press. Some fair points were made. How many schools have doors that anyone can waltz into? People send their kids to school everyday in buildings that have less security than your average workplace (mine is keycard access only and visitors must sign in). Personal information is under better protection than children at school.
Where the NRA failed with its speech is deflecting the blame to cultural aspects like games and films (although Hollywood plays a large role in the glorification of firearms, something they won't admit). The speech called for a database of mentally ill people but did not mention if being in this database would prevent a person from possessing firearms (maybe this means they'd fail a background check?). They missed the target on a lot of things but increasing security at schools is a bulls eye shot that will be largely ignored in the media.
The US needs to do a lot of things to limit access to firearms. Frankly, that's a very big job. Closing the gun show loophole, restricting access to select fire weapons and creating national standards for licencing individuals & the storage of unattended firearms will take much time (people seem to forget the lengthy nature of democratic process). The NRAs security shield proposal (armed guards aside) is help that can happen right away and it's a shame that is being ignored due to the usual NRA hysteria.
or he will simply be the first victim
The rest of the world watches those films too. And they play the same video games too.
Deflecting blame to Video games and holloywood is lame.
Rathional people know its not real. I personally enjoy the high body count action movies. yet I would not want to own a real gun. Would like to own a fake western revolver..but my wife said no.
Most of these perople had mental issues and should never have had access to a gun. An armed guard at a school is totally missing the point.
The New York law proposed by the Cuomo sounds reasonable.
Total and complete ban on all semi automatic and assualt rifles. Magazine clips of no more than 7.
Rathional people know its not real. I personally enjoy the high body count action movies. yet I would not want to own a real gun. Would like to own a fake western revolver..but my wife said no.
Most of these perople had mental issues and should never have had access to a gun. An armed guard at a school is totally missing the point.
The New York law proposed by the Cuomo sounds reasonable.
Total and complete ban on all semi automatic and assualt rifles. Magazine clips of no more than 7.
Why do would you need all that security at a school in Canada?
Personally we thought that it was a sad day when they put bigger fences around our local secondary school due to kids vandalising the place.
The elementary schools I've seen in the US have decent security atm. No armed guards but most other doors, besides the front door are locked.
The bigger question is cinemas, malls, offices, etc..
Would the NRA have armed volunteers there too?
What about churches?
The bigger question is cinemas, malls, offices, etc..
Would the NRA have armed volunteers there too?
What about churches?
Sorry, did I say something different?
Blaming this stuff was an argument that was settled in the early 90s when parents of suicidal teens tried to blame heavy metal music for their deaths. It was a pretty landmark court decision. They should know better.
Stop thinking about the armed guards, that's also missing the point.
The point is security at schools is lacking, there are more ways to increase it than simply armed guards or police officers. It's sad that people can't see this. It's an opportunity to engage in open dialogue with the NRA, once you start talking it's possible to change their opinion on who should have access to firearms, who should not and maybe even what type of firearms.A ban on semi-autos is unreasonable, with the exception of full auto or burst fire, the action is irrelevant. With a little practice you can fire a bolt action, pump action or lever action rifle with virtually the same speed as a semi-auto. Limiting magazine capacity is reasonable because it's feasible, they are easily pinned but what do you do about the thousands of high capacity magazines out there already? The best path is limiting access to firearms through licencing but as that goes against the very raison d'etre of the NRA they'll never support it. Tough for them, I guess. I'd be impressed to see Obama attempt something like that, it's not like he can go for another term anyway.
There are schools in Toronto that have armed police officers there every day.
Granted they are high schools but if the school board wants it, they can have it imo.
That'd only really work if the guard was sitting in a room that's completely locked up and no-one is let in. You honestly believe it would be hard to get close to a guard? Guards would go decades without ever experiencing a shooting on their school - do you think they'd be on high alert at all times?
You are of course right on the last part, which proves that putting a guard at your school won't solve the problem. It'll just be someone else's problem.
Yeah, I know the guard was just a part of their proposed solution, but as they kept repeating it it seemed to be a pretty major part of it in their eyes. As you say, they did indeed say it would be something schools could sign up for if interested and it shouldn't be forced. But once again, it's their proposed solution and it's pretty clear to me what they believe would work. Quite honestly, I stopped listening when they started throwing around all the usual buzzwords but from what I gathered, they want every kindergarten to have pentagon-like security.
Of course the security at a school is shit. It's a school! We have as poor security in Denmark, but we've never had a school shooting. The reason your workplace has more security is most likely because your company don't want random people to wander around and potentially gather information they shouldn't have. I don't really think it has much to do with keeping you safe from gun-nuts. Most companies have some sort of security in Denmark at least (keycard or whatever) and that's certainly not to keep out guns.
What kind of locks? I still reckon there's room for improvement; mag locks, key cards, ID badges, front door attendants who buzz visitors in as well as signing them in with temporary ID badges.
Like I said most offices have security systems that are far better than any school I've ever seen. As for the other places, attendance there is voluntary so I'd say the situation is a bit different, although their answer to your question would undoubtedly be yes.
Do anyone want their kids to grow up in a place where they'd be required to carry keycards to school?
No, sorry. I read it as it was you who claimed that games and films glorify guns!
Oh you couldn't trust kids with that. Staff only. People can be there to let kids in when they show up for class.
The kind of door that has a push bar on the inside so you can get out easily but you can't open it from the outside.
Doesn't work well for schools with lots of trailers as they're spread out all over the place. Presumably an armed guard would patrol the grounds, right?
And the odds of him being in the right place at the right time would be slim.
It may have been after Columbine, but we had student resource officers in middle and high school. There may have been one in elementary school, but I can't remember. They're just police officers who work at the schools and basically help when students are out of control or fighting. If kids fight, he comes in and cuffs them and might take them to the police station or wherever. They also provide security for the buildings and generally keep an eye out for anything strange.
I'm not sure why all schools don't have them. I live in a very poor part of the state and all middle/high schools have SRO's. I'm not sure that the elementary schools do, but it would be helpful to have them there just for general purposes. They'll monitoring the lunchroom, playgrounds, etc mostly for students creating problems. Occasionally they'll stop kids for selling/bringing drugs/cigarettes/alcohol to school.
A few weeks ago, one guy brought in a kid who had brought two airsoft guns that weren't capped with orange tips and looked exactly like real handguns. One of them even had the same weight and feel of a handgun. The SRO brought him to the police office, confiscated the guns, etc. I'm not sure if he was charged but he was likely expelled.
SRO's aren't anti-crazy guards. They're just security and make sense in most cases.
I'm not sure why all schools don't have them. I live in a very poor part of the state and all middle/high schools have SRO's. I'm not sure that the elementary schools do, but it would be helpful to have them there just for general purposes. They'll monitoring the lunchroom, playgrounds, etc mostly for students creating problems. Occasionally they'll stop kids for selling/bringing drugs/cigarettes/alcohol to school.
A few weeks ago, one guy brought in a kid who had brought two airsoft guns that weren't capped with orange tips and looked exactly like real handguns. One of them even had the same weight and feel of a handgun. The SRO brought him to the police office, confiscated the guns, etc. I'm not sure if he was charged but he was likely expelled.
SRO's aren't anti-crazy guards. They're just security and make sense in most cases.
Throw out the school security diversion enough and everyone will forget about the gun issue, that's how this will all end.
It was so obvious that nothing would change.
There seems to be a lot of talk about these school incidents in particular, but isn't there enough single shooting incidents that would justify the need for gun control? Being armed won't prevent them in any way.