Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017

RedSky said:
My experience on the whole with the construction industry was mainly positive. There were a few examples of contractors leaning on sub contractors to cut corners, but we'd tell the contractor to feck off and start quoting the Fire Act at them. But that was having a boss that knew his shit and gave a damn. The Sub Contractors i'm always suspicious of are the ones that can quote an unrealistically low quote just to ensure they get the work. You shudder to think where these cowboys are cutting corners.

We had a good working relationship with a Contractor so were lucky in that regard.
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Yeah sure, good guys & bad guys everywhere. I find myself so angry I can barely form a coherent sentence let alone be fair & reasonable to everyone all the time, I'm afraid.

I'm very much taken with this bolded bit, however. And I would again accuse the HA/ALMO of not actually caring, either way. Report the work as done in any kind of way, is fine for them - you can see how / why it happens but it doesn't make it right. Nor is it all of the individual workers I don't suppose. A high % of the frontline staff are actually very good & understanding. Anyone above that (usually faceless / unavailable) I just think are complete 110% lying shits, I'm afraid.
 
Oh, and Barwell won't answer any questions about the Fire Regs issue he apparently sat on for years. Don't suppose that's a surprise.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
It is a shameful incident and I don't know how the politics can be avoided. If the cladding was responsible then how on earth was it allowed to be added to a building it then compromised and by doing so destroyed it and killed so many people?

If politicising means holding to account politicians and people making these decisions then let's get on with it because I'm tired of the pretence that the outcome is the same no matter who is in charge and no matter what the decisions they make or there outcome.
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It is baffling, but surely it's more of a council or building regulatory body issue, than a government one. He did drag his socialist dogma into the debate though.

WackyWengerWorld said:
If he was 'politicising this shamelessly' he'd be calling this the Tory slaughter of the British underclass, which is true. Instead he's looking for a solution to the people's plight, albeit a very socialist one.
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A very socialist one, stealing other people's property.

Wibble said:
THE DM would find a way to blame it on a refugee.
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Sadly true.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
They are just shameless.
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It's only an allegation at this stage tbf, albeit a horrible one which is being refuted. Let's berate someone when they've actually been found guilty.
 
Good Gifts are selling packages of bathroom and bedroom stuff and children's toys and books. Nice touch.
 
Smores said:
Not sure what point you're making? Whether residents want disruption or not is irrelevant when the council has a duty of care, putting it to residents when you know they'll reject it isn't a way out.

It just paints a picture of them cutting corners at every turn but this is what happens when budgets become tight.
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The point is it's not a legal requirement to install sprinklers, so it's a perfectly valid question to put to the residents and for them to reject. It's not evidence of greedy rich man treading on the poor.
 
Resident's opinions are irrelevant to these arseholes. Unless it suits, it's suiting that prick Paget-Brown for the resident opinion which suits him to be relevant just about now. How incredibly convenient. And it's probably his first time.

I'd lock him up just for being stupid enough to say so.
 
Said to missus public anger may spoil over to riots on this. There's already a lot of discontent
 
esmufc07 said:
If it descends into riots they lose all sympathy.
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Erm who does? You can still have sympathy for them and not subsequent actions you know.

My comment was mainly because group anger easily escalates beyond intention
 
11101 said:
The point is it's not a legal requirement to install sprinklers, so it's a perfectly valid question to put to the residents and for them to reject. It's not evidence of greedy rich man treading on the poor.
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Ordinarily, people don't get a choice when it comes to improvements being implemented...because of safety regulations. Curiously enough, offering residents a choice in this instance just happened to potentially facilitate cost-cutting; quelle effin' surprise.
 
esmufc07 said:
If it descends into riots they lose all sympathy.
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as with the riots last time around...it wasn't the Duggan family rioting.

I'd think those who lost loved ones will be too busy trying to get some information, any information...to go around rioting.

Stealing basmati rice isn't going to be a priority for them.

2011 riots :lol:
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Neutral said:
as with the riots last time around...it wasn't the Duggan family rioting.

I'd think those who lost loved ones will be too busy trying to get some information, any information...to go around rioting.

Stealing basmati rice isn't going to be a priority for them.

2011 riots :lol:
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Bit of a false equivalency here.
 
Neutral said:
as with the riots last time around...it wasn't the Duggan family rioting.

I'd think those who lost loved ones will be too busy trying to get some information, any information...to go around rioting.

Stealing basmati rice isn't going to be a priority for them.

2011 riots :lol:
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The valid anger goes beyond immediate family though, its friends, communities, other tower blocks.

Must admit when those riots happened i immaturely enjoyed the feck you to the establishment, certainly don't have that opinion anymore.

Police need to be careful in their handling of this. A few knobheads can spark everything but at the same time people need answers
 
You can understand their fury but some of these people need to tone their rhetoric down. Some calling the police and firefighters murderers for not letting them go in to the building to rescue people
 
SteveJ said:
Ordinarily, people don't get a choice when it comes to improvements being implemented...because of safety regulations. Curiously enough, offering residents a choice in this instance just happened to potentially facilitate cost-cutting; quelle effin' surprise.
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Decent Homes Scheme again..

We should have been offered choices but weren't. They just wanted to turn up and do what they wanted to do.

What you say is right however, Steve.

The feckers are incredible, one rule, one minute, different rule used the next time. None of the rules ever seem to apply to them, though.
 
Its funny, she was dismissed as a coke head yesterday but Lilly Allen was warning everyone about this.

Its Friday, people are getting off work for the weekend and the weather looks like it will hold up. Things could get really ugly.
 
MannyB said:
Its funny, she was dismissed as a coke head yesterday but Lilly Allen was warning everyone about this.

Its Friday, people are getting off work for the weekend and the weather looks like it will hold up. Things could get really ugly.
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What do you mean?

She was claiming it was some sort of cover up/conspiracy with the amount of people who died. She was ridiculed because she was blatantly lying.

The number of dead keeps increasing as they identify the dead and locate the bodies. There is no cover up.
 
MannyB said:
Its funny, she was dismissed as a coke head yesterday but Lilly Allen was warning everyone about this.

Its Friday, people are getting off work for the weekend and the weather looks like it will hold up. Things could get really ugly.
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Could be a long hot summer.
 
Fergies Gum said:
What do you mean?

She was claiming it was some sort of cover up/conspiracy with the amount of people who died. She was ridiculed because she was blatantly lying.
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No she never said conspiracy. She said people want answers starting with a potential death toll.

She said its calm now but when the anger kicks in there could be riots.
 
Fergies Gum said:
The number of dead keeps increasing as they identify the dead and locate the bodies. There is no cover up.
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Yep. They can't give a definitive number until the bodies are found and it'll take a while as the building itself is now hazardous, and the bodies that are in there will be unidentifiable or hard to find. It was only today that the remnants of the fire was extinguished.
 
Fergies Gum said:
What do you mean?

She was claiming it was some sort of cover up/conspiracy with the amount of people who died. She was ridiculed because she was blatantly lying.

The number of dead keeps increasing as they identify the dead and locate the bodies. There is no cover up.
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You don't usually only have reporting on confirmed, an expectation gets set. Think that was her point, not that its a cover up.

Its basically a lack of communication from anyone other than the emergency services, who quite rightly only do confirmed. Mainly because no one wants to take ownership. Khan and the Tory goverment have not handled this well.
 
MannyB said:
No she never said conspiracy. She said people want answers starting with a potential death toll.

She said its calm now but when the anger kicks in there could be riots.
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She may be right about the riots part, but everyone knows there is a chance that could happen when tensions are high.

She was implying it was a conspiracy. She accused the media of covering up and downplaying the death toll.

A lot of the media are reporting on the official death toll which is the decent thing to do.
 
Smores said:
You don't usually only have reporting on confirmed, an expectation gets set. Think that was her point, not that its a cover up.

Its basically a lack of communication from anyone other than the emergency services, who quite rightly only do confirmed. Mainly because no one wants to take ownership. Khan and the Tory goverment have not handled this well.
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Yeah, you would usually expect something like 'the confirmed number of dead is X, but could potentially rise as high as X, as the police recover more bodies'.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Yeah, you would usually expect something like 'the confirmed number of dead is X, but could potentially rise as high as X, as the police recover more bodies'.
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But they would be reckless if they started reporting on inflated numbers

At first there were rumours of 300+ dead, then 200+ and Lily Allen saying 150.

You can imagine the predicament the media would be in if they reported that 250+ could have died and it ended up being at less than 100. They would be accused of sensationalising and trying to hype up the incident.
 
May has now visited a support centre to meet victims, but some people now complaining that she should have gone outside to talk to people

Some people just cant be pleased regardless of what she does.

 
Fergies Gum said:
May has now visited a support centre to meet victims, but some people now complaining that she should have gone outside to talk to people

There is just no pleasing people

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Problem for her is that she didn't do it straight away. No matter what she did next was going to rectify that, rightly or wrongly.
 
Fergies Gum said:
But they would be reckless if they started reporting on inflated numbers

At first there were rumours of 300+ dead, then 200+ and Lily Allen saying 150.

You can imagine the predicament the media would be in if they reported that 250+ could have died and it ended up being at less than 100. They would be accused of sensationalising and trying to hype up the incident.
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They do that all the fecking time and its not about throwing around rumoured inflated figures. Im not sure how it would be 'reckless' given they're not identifying anyone.

It is not in anyway unusual for the media to say "x confirmed dead but hundreds unaccounted for". The point is the media could only report confirmed because of an odd lack of information coming out.

The residents know the numbers huge, they're pissed off that no one is coming out and saying it. Not hard to understand their anger.
 
I don't see why the council can't report on exactly who lived there and how many tenants they believe lived there. It wouldn't be sensationalism at all.
 
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