Equally wrong is the fact that Kensington, a borough of massively contrasting residential areas, is held up as being one of the richest in the world and that somehow this also means it shouldn't have happened. It's quite clear there are two Kensingtons and one of the differences is that one of them gains far more consideration and probably council monies for whatever than the other does. I have always found London odd in that you have areas in which you have both huge wealth and huge poverty living side by side.
Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017
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Equally wrong is the fact that Kensington, a borough of massively contrasting residential areas, is held up as being one of the richest in the world and that somehow this also means it shouldn't have happened. It's quite clear there are two Kensingtons and one of the differences is that one of them gains far more consideration and probably council monies for whatever than the other does. I have always found London odd in that you have areas in which you have both huge wealth and huge poverty living side by side.
Unsafe and old building, a shame.
Jippy defected to Labour.
Feck, that's so upsetting.
There are 'FM approved' cladding & insulation compounds which are not as combustible because the compound has been treated with mineral wool. However, ideally you use non combustible compound i.e. mineral wool such as Rockwool.
Holy shit, just came past it on the way into Westfield and it just looks an absolute state. Absolutely horrible to realise there's still so many poor people in there who couldn't get out.
The sprinkler argument is an interesting one because the sprinkler is on the inside and the cladding on the outside making the sprinkler some what redundant... the fact is that these type of tower blocks should have fire resistant cladding AND sprinklers. The construction industry in the U.K. needs to be regulated properly.
You forgot zip wires to help people escape..
Bullshit. In the Netherlands regulations are such that's it's illegal to use none fire resistant cladding in tower blocks and I'm pretty sure that'll be the case in most first World countries. In the U.K. the government doesn't want to regulate and the government treats it's citizens, who are less well off, with contempt.
This has affected me more than the recent terror attacks for some reason. I just can't imagine being at the top of a tower block, seeing what we all saw and knowing there's no way out. I can't think of a worse way to go. Those poor fecking people, man. It's just heartbreaking.
I read this in the Liverpool Echo, in relation to the refurbishment of tower blocks for social housing tenants. It should be the same standard all over the country, that's for sure.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...l-merseyside-high-rise-investigation-13190424
Sums it up nicely.
The more comes out on this the angrier everyone is getting it seems and its despicable May decided to use her campaign technique of staying away from the public as much as possible.
The interview from the Tory Councillor saying they didn't install sprinkles because residents didnt want disruption
The interview from the Tory Councillor saying they didn't install sprinkles because residents didnt want disruption
'No more red tape'.
Same. Think it comes down to the terror attacks at the end of the day are committed by fecked up people doing something crazy. Sure the government, authorities should ask questions of themselves, but there's only so much you can do.
What happened here, is clearly avoidable. Tragic, really. Makes me not only sad but angry that such things were allowed to happen
Everything I said was factual. Where did I speculate that all 'first world' countries use them?
I also said that corners had probably been cut and that UK building regs are probably at fault too (in another post).
This type of cladding has been used on expensive private residencies around the world.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ralian-buildings-is-like-the-asbestos-problem
My whole point is that there is still little information as who is to blame specifically. A possible fault with gas repairs work has also come to light.
They will try to shift the blame on to the victims somehow, they always do.The interview from the Tory Councillor saying they didn't install sprinkles because residents didnt want disruption
Why is that something you even put to residents? You dont ask if someone wants seat-belts in their car.
I just hope the victims' relatives aren't made to wait 27 years for justice.
The only possible explanation to why the fire spread so quickly and violently is the combustible cladding. The point is that in this day and age all constructors and regulators know full well what the dangers are of using combustible insulation materials in a high rise tower block. This tradegy was avoidable and never should have happened. It's a disgrace and this is the consequence of what happens when authorities take interests of industries over that of the general public.
It is political. It's social housing, subject to political decisions constantly, so is unavoidably political.
It would be remiss of him not to ask questions. The fact is that Kensington has been traditionally Tory with a Tory council, but he's right to ask questions regardless.
Why is that something you even put to residents? You dont ask if someone wants seat-belts in their car.
Disgusting! Making excuses for the consequences of the councils decisions. Furthermore, it's not even certain that the sprinkler would have been effective because the sprinkler is on the inside and the cladding on the outside. Unless the facade had been fitted with sprinkler heads of course.
Sprinkler or no sprinkler, combustible cladding should never be used on a high rise tower block, it's completely irresponsible!!!
Which is just nothing when you consider the cnutractors charged Kensington & Chelsea borough 10,000,000 for the recent refurb.
Feck knows what that covered but it should have covered sprinklers.
Who knows maybe it was all a big accident, but it certainly looks again like the lives of innocent people might have been put at risk for financial gain (going by the reports of concerns ignored, terrible fire safety advice, contradictory fire safety statements and the general callous neglect of expendable people). It's the same shit attitude I'm sure many of us have experienced with regards to housing at local, national and private level but this time the consequences were horrific.
As inappropriate as it is accurate:
As inappropriate as it is accurate:
So the were willing to invest in a sprinkler, but not in fire resistant cladding... yeah, right.
Why is that something you even put to residents? You dont ask if someone wants seat-belts in their car.
Sounds like utter BS and he knows the dead families won't be able to deny it
Why is that something you even put to residents? You dont ask if someone wants seat-belts in their car.
Putting aside whether or not sprinklers would have made much difference when the fire's initial fuel source was on the exterior.
Installing sprinklers would have meant massive disruption to all the households as they rip walls and ceilings apart, it's easy to see how a residents committee would vote against it.
There will undoubtedly be regulation changes after this but it's not some rich v poor thing. Building regs are the same for everybody.
In the article I posted earlier in the thread the Labour government in 1999 were warned about this exact thing happening and it seems that no one over the last 20 years has bothered to worry about that advice. It's a joke.
It was avoidable yes, all accidents are by definition but there is a whole lot of unpicking to do with many parties responsible for different aspects of what has gone wrong, it is a 'catelogue of errors' or a perfect storm.
If it is correct that Liverpool council impose stricter planning laws around cladding then it could well be the case of this largely falling on the toes of the local council. Then there is the argument if you want decentralised government or not.
Not sure what point you're making? Whether residents want disruption or not is irrelevant when the council has a duty of care, putting it to residents when you know they'll reject it isn't a way out.
It just paints a picture of them cutting corners at every turn but this is what happens when budgets become tight.
Indeed. So lets not turn this thread in to an excuse to bash the Tories, the Labour track record is equally as bad.
I work in the insurance industry and know all about mitigating risk. Most fires like the one in London are as result of a catelogue of errors and more than one thing going wrong, Murphy's law so to speak.
However, you do not use combustible cladding in a high rise building; it's totally irresponsible & inappropriate and everybody is fully aware of the risk!!!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...le-in-a-delayed-fire-safety-a7789266.html?amp
Absolutely disgusting!
Absolutely disgusting!
If he was 'politicising this shamelessly' he'd be calling this the Tory slaughter of the British underclass, which is true. Instead he's looking for a solution to the people's plight, albeit a very socialist one.
I don't think Blair's government will come out of this well when the investigation is finished, after all, he was also in on the style of "light touch" government. Some people just can't see that if profit is seen as the only legitimate motive and that shareholders' returns have priority, other things will go out of the window. That's why the market cannot solve everything.
May has utterly failed as the nation's leader on this. After becoming PM she spoke about being in touch with the ordinary person, of understanding the people at the bottom of the pile, of needing the common touch. All well and good Theresa but the common touch requires being near people, especially when leadership is needed.
May has utterly failed as the nation's leader on this. After becoming PM she spoke about being in touch with the ordinary person, of understanding the people at the bottom of the pile, of needing the common touch. All well and good Theresa but the common touch requires being near people, especially when leadership is needed.
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Regardless of party allegiance, as the nations leader she has been utterly useless.
how do you get around the sprinklers getting set off all the time problem?
when you have sprinklers
when you have sprinklers
Someone help me understand the numbers here.
Media are reporting 17 dead and 20 missing, however many media outlets are also reporting that the death toll could exceed 100 / 150.
If we only have c.20 missing at this stage, 3 days later, how are we deducing that there could still be so many more dead ?
Media are reporting 17 dead and 20 missing, however many media outlets are also reporting that the death toll could exceed 100 / 150.
If we only have c.20 missing at this stage, 3 days later, how are we deducing that there could still be so many more dead ?
Presumably because there were 120 flats, and as it was midnight mist would have been at home