How is the cladding even permitted to be sold at all given Dubai and Melbourne before??
Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
I can see that they'd have to be very careful but they're used a lot for forest fires to drop large quantities of wáter from a height. Also for rescuing anyone who might have climbed onto the roof to seek safety.
Steve I doubt local residents read that shit rag, maybe part of angry at Khan was just simply because he was there but also he has been mayor for over a year now, that's not to say he could of stopped what happened(If anything a huge amount of the blame lies with the former mayor Boris Johnston)but what is clear is that people have been voicing their worries that the tower was a death trap for a very long time and clearly no one was listened.
Not an easy watch.
There was an Essex firefighters on LBC last night, and he was doubtful as to there possible usefulness once the blaze reached he interior (which it did all too quickly sadly). Now if people had reached the roof without succumbing to smoke inhalation, possibly they';d have called in a SAR chopper from the RAF, however the London Fire Brigade don't have them.
Could a zip line be used on roof of these buildings? There must be a suitable escape plan they could use for extreme circumstances.
150 people is a really incredible number of people.
Words can't express how awful this is.
Words can't express how awful this is.
Not really. She'd have been criticised whatever she'd done and whatever she'd said. Better to get on and sort things which I'm sure she will.
Criticism for the sake of it is the new norm and it's so tiresome.
Tragic situation, full investigation needed. Buildings that are at risk, need to be addressed ASAP. There is a lot of anger, but this whole thing about wealth being brought into the argument, is hard to listen to after 10m was spent on refurbishments that would have been funded by the tax payer
Regulations are thin or someone has made a cock up, but this is not down to people who are less well off being specifically marginalised, stigmatised or discriminated against that the argument is drifting towards. Council housing is a gift, especially in one of the most expensive areas in the world, and given the amount of homeless people in London. Stigmatising would be relocating all housing association residents to a less desirable place in the country so businesses or investors can put up shiney new million pound flats or office blocks
Regulations are thin or someone has made a cock up, but this is not down to people who are less well off being specifically marginalised, stigmatised or discriminated against that the argument is drifting towards. Council housing is a gift, especially in one of the most expensive areas in the world, and given the amount of homeless people in London. Stigmatising would be relocating all housing association residents to a less desirable place in the country so businesses or investors can put up shiney new million pound flats or office blocks
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Saw that on twitter and wasn't sure about sharing. The beeb getting a lot of shit for grief porn. Kind of agree tbh. Is anything to be gained from filming someone in such agony? He obviously consented but he's also clearly in no fit state to think anything through.
I understand that point of view. Personally, I think it's important some times to document grief to make us all feel together, and to get everyone behind the calls to hold those responsible to account. Obviously, it's also worthwhile to have recorded witness accounts while the memory is still fresh before the inquiry starts.
I really feel like by watching this constant news coverage I/we are only perpetuating this kind of perverse journalism so I feel a tad hypocritical at times but it was really weird watching journalists interview people who mentioned people jumping out of the building and then the journalist awkwardly skirting around the question of what exactly happened to those people when they hit the ground. Like come on is that really necessary. That's when they become like cockroaches to me.
Agree with everything shes saying
Where are we getting these forest fire helicopters from at short notice?
People couldnt get down the stairs so how would they get up?
Thought that this morning when they were interviewing kids that had lost friends etc. It just seemed off.
Really? She is talking rubbish. Credible news channels shouldn't speculate on death tolls IMO. Do you really think there is a conspiracy at play?
Naturally there'd be criticisms either way but the fact she made a 'private' appearance is fairly poor form; if she couldn't be arsed speaking to anyone involved in an open and transparent manner then she shouldn't have bothered at all. Had she spoken to them then, aye, it's quite possible she'd have been panned...but then that's part of what her job entails, and she should've been able to take it on the chin.
The cladding is probably to blame for the fire spreading so quickly, but no sprinklers, no alarms... and from what residents have said no correct evacuation instructions or escape routes... in modern day that's a disgrace.
I think a lot of different companies, agency's and departments will take huge blame for this, and hopefully lead to huge reforms.
It's a difficult one. As others have said it's important to document the cases of those involved because it does add a sense of authenticity and legitimacy to the whole thing, but they do begin to feel like vultures at times. Been a number of interviews where it's clear someone's said what they wanted to say and the interviewer keeps on prodding them for more.
I didn't say we should use forest fire helicopters. I said, in answer to a post, the the downdraught they create doesn't impede their being used for forest fires. The police in a city the size of London will have 'copters for crowd and traffic control. Is it beyond imagination that a helicopter might come in handy for an emergency involving a high rise building ?
You think she would have been criticised no matter what so it doesn't matter what she does or how she does it?
I'd also be interested why her utter incompetence since becoming leader makes you confident about her sorting this out?
This is the first event where I have *ever*, *ever*, not seen the media speculating on the death toll.
The Manchester bombing. You think they had gone through and identified every single child and parent who had been blown to pieces before they released the 20+ figure? Like feck had they.
Every other incident starts with "100's are feared to have died after a *something something something*"
The fact is that 100's of people are likely to have died. Now I get that there is a difference between "confirmed dead" and "likely to have died", but it took the media a long long time to realise just how many families have been burned alive. For a while it seemed like they were treating it like the local bakery had burnt down.
I'm not saying there is some crazy conspiracy going on here. Probably, it's just so horrendous that they are doing everything by the book. Maybe the media have different rules for reporting events in the UK too, because they certainly don't mind speculating how many people have died due to a landslide or earthquake.
But you know It's weird. Hundreds have died. But the media won't say it.
Hundreds have died.
Say it
Yeah, it's tricky. Pros and cons to it. That footage is raw as feck. Watching someone in so much emotional pain just feels invasive. But, like you say, if it gets a response in terms of donations and support then that's a positive.
The top idea sounds a decent solution.
Well if the fire was in the middle you would go to the top and use the zip. If you lived below you'd go down?
They had bodies in Manchester in the immediate aftermath, granted some where in too many piece to be identified but they haven't been able to search the block properly as far as I'm aware, they were sending dogs in initially?
All of the coverage has said the death toll is expected to rise from the start.
But why can't you say it's going to be over 100? Is there a rule against it?
Presumably they're just being very careful, and don't want to come across as vague. The fact they've not properly gone through the building yet means they'll have no idea how many are in there: some people will have been out, some may have had extra visitors/people staying etc. 100+ can mean anything over that really, and they perhaps just feel it's better to remain on the side of caution. But I do agree it's taken a while for the full scale and likely toll of this tragedy to really take effect, though.
Here's cracking bit of writing about this by an Irish journo who usually writes about football. Coincidentally, he was one of the guys I used to play footy with on the pitch right beside the tower.
Take the Lilly Allen shit to some sort of relevant thread yeah?
My only question to those who will know a lot more than I do.
Is there any reason the building *needed* to have cladding like this? Is there some sort of law come in to make old big buildings more energy efficient?
Why did it have £10 million spent on it?
Is there any reason the building *needed* to have cladding like this? Is there some sort of law come in to make old big buildings more energy efficient?
Why did it have £10 million spent on it?
How long before someone posts "Ah, but in the real world.." ?
http://www.ukgbc.org/resources/key-topics/new-build-and-retrofit/retrofit-domestic-buildings
Some details on there. Not sure of the specific legislation for this building though.
It would have cost around £200k to retrofit sprinklers according to newsnight.
The Times saying it would have cost £5k extra to have the fire resistant cladding installed. £22 v £24.
But people above the fire this week couldnt use the stairs at all because of the smoke.
Some of tomorrow's front pages:
The Times saying 50+ deaths, Mirror saying 100+
Christ.
Daily Fail blaming "Green targets"
Christ.
Daily Fail blaming "Green targets"
Woman on newsnight calling for an inquest rather than inquiry, as an inquest would give victims families the right to be involved and to ask question. Totally agree with her.