Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
For a building of 20+ storeys? That is cheaper than i expected.
Are the two mutually exclusive?
I think so.
Yeah, sorry mate, my post was poorly expressed.
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Times reporting new details on the material
1)The fire resistant cladding cost just £2 more per metre than the flammable cladding this building had.
2)This type of cladding was banned in the US in buildings over 40 feet for fire safety reasons.
Complete disgrace and just makes your blood boil.
1)The fire resistant cladding cost just £2 more per metre than the flammable cladding this building had.
2)This type of cladding was banned in the US in buildings over 40 feet for fire safety reasons.
Complete disgrace and just makes your blood boil.
What in the genuine, absolute feck? Whoever made that decision should be facing heavy, heavy punishment.
Same here. I had a restaurant burn down last year that cost 1.75 million (canadian) to rebuild and there was a city bylaw that forced the owners to put in a sprinkler system to cover ~ 4000 square feet and it came to $ 75,000.
This gets even more disgraceful.
It says this particular cladding is for places like commercial buildings and not for tower blocks.
It says this particular cladding is for places like commercial buildings and not for tower blocks.
Probably far easier to install in retail space than in an old, 24 storey tower block. Interesting though.
Yeah, I find that £300k number really low but it's possible the UK has better prices (due to larger market and economy) than Montreal.
They mentioned on newsnight that prices have dropped drastically in recent times.
that's good to hear and hopefully it leads to government regulations for residential buildings above 6 storeys.
I hadnt appreciated until this week that the fire brigade cant reach fires at the top of buildings like this from outside of the building. All the more reason to make sprinklers mandatory. Shocking stuff.
Does anyone know where the figure might end? No-one wants to appear sensationalist and if the DM overreported the deaths, you'd all go beserk tbf.
Corbyn politicising this shamelessly.Some of tomorrow's front pages:
This happened all the time. Companies quote crazy low figures to get the contract then cut corners when possible.
Look at that bastard, comforting people and offering direction. What does he think he is, some sort of leader? I pray to Murdoch we can stop him.
You're right, not the time or the place and you clearly know feck all so no point discussing it with you either. My father, both grandfathers and all my uncles did full careers in the service and I grew up with their sense of humour and ways of coping, I've smelt the charred remains of human beings on the clothes of my own dad and witnessed him trying to clean a wellington boot that some unfortunate soul had bled out into whilst my old man cradled him in his arms trying to cut him out of a truck wreck and they cope, and even joke about the smell of bacon because it fecking does.
They probably did suffer mentally as a consequence though, but shielded you from it. It's still common for people to hide mental health problems and that was only more prevalent in the past.
One of the management from the fire department was on the news talking about the fire fighters involved getting professional help to deal with this.
Around 5% take the counselling when offered after these sort of major incidents but they're never the ones that were cut out for the service and do a full term. Seriously anyone that will put their neck on the line that often for people they have never met in such dangerous circumstances are a rare breed and they don't do counselling and would laugh in your face if you suggested it. The only thing that gets to the bastards is kids, when I was working on the orphanage refurb in Romania with a crew it was only when we interacted with the kids they broke down and then they could be wrecks, my old man was the same around bonfire night, we were 150% banned from even leaving the house for the whole 2 weeks around it and the simple explanation that he could drag any kid out of a fire by his ankles so long as he was sure it wasn't me was more than enough to rein in any desire I might have had to go out.
Scotland Yard launches criminal inquiry
'Police have opened a criminal investigation into the tower block fire that has killed at least 17 people. A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said: “We have appointed a senior investigating officer.”
Police have said they are not yet in a position to define how the investigation will be carried out and what, specifically, will be its focus. But they said they hope to release more details soon.'
(Guardian)
'Police have opened a criminal investigation into the tower block fire that has killed at least 17 people. A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said: “We have appointed a senior investigating officer.”
Police have said they are not yet in a position to define how the investigation will be carried out and what, specifically, will be its focus. But they said they hope to release more details soon.'
(Guardian)
It's not like London boroughs aren't going to have to consider more high-rise developments anyway, on account of the scarcity of land. We might want to borrow some idea from Singapore though, regarding environmental integration, or the vertical farming sector in the US.
Away from such strategic thinking - i wonder if the mayor/council could approach the likes of AirBnB for the use of its rentals on a temporary basis. Obviously, they are but a gateway for individuals, but the ready pool of properties is there. Wouldn't be terrible PR for them either.
The thing is, the tower was built 43 years ago - what I'd like to know is did the fire retardent cladding exist then? If so, was it commonly used at that time?
It was only just installed. This was from a refurbishment.
The cladding was only added last year.
If the building had been left in its original state, it looks like this would be a minor story.
THE DM would find a way to blame it on a refugee.
Alloy composite cladding with a mineral interior is fire resistant, the stuff in this fire and the Melbourne had a cheaper petrochemical interior which isn't. Not sure why (or even if) it is legal.
It is a shameful incident and I don't know how the politics can be avoided. If the cladding was responsible then how on earth was it allowed to be added to a building it then compromised and by doing so destroyed it and killed so many people?
If politicising means holding to account politicians and people making these decisions then let's get on with it because I'm tired of the pretence that the outcome is the same no matter who is in charge and no matter what the decisions they make or there outcome.
Spot on. Need to see some accountability for this and substantial changes made as a result.
I have no doubt this 'politicising a tragedy is wrong' is all but dead, on this one. People are livid.
Far be it from me to speak on behalf of Jip on this matter, however it was my interpretation that 'requisitioned if necessary' (from the wealthy) represented the controversial aspect. It plays into his election narrative some would argue.
Corbyn is trying to make his presence felt, yet for all practical purposes the leading Labour voice here is Sadiq Khan. Where the national leader might be useful, is making sure that other such tower blocks are inspected as soon as possible. And perhaps, after some investigation, Labour adopts a policy similar to the America's.
Most of the unbelieveable incredible-ness of this horrific event in covered is this Telegraph article quite well. Most parts of which this thread has talked about too.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...eath-toll-set-rise-amid-grim-search-grenfell/
Pick out your least favourite bits, there's plenty to go at.
edit - it's the live feed though - starting at the moment with this section down probably most interest
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...eath-toll-set-rise-amid-grim-search-grenfell/
Pick out your least favourite bits, there's plenty to go at.
edit - it's the live feed though - starting at the moment with this section down probably most interest
Why?
I don't want to be funny with you but of all the comments made about this and there have been several which made me angry but the one which made me sit up and want to spit at the TV was uttered by David Aaronovitch when he said on I think News night, that this shouldn't happen in the nation's Capital.
Yes, I agree it shouldn't but it has nothing to do with where the building is. We live in buildings above single storey even outside of London and the issue is a national one unless London has a different building code to the rest of England.
I think it comes back to how appalled people are that in one of the most well off parts of the world, people have died due to utterly inadequate funding of fire safety measures. It's the jarring thing where an amount of money that couldn't possibly buy a nearby private flat could potentially have saved a hundred people from dying.
This is an astonishingly stark image of inequality.
Far be it from me to speak for Jip, but I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. He may be a Tory, but he's one of the less evil ones. I'm not sure how that works, but I've been assured that it can occasionally happen.
His voting Labour helps.
and as for the practice of ''thermal cladding'' - I didn't know much so I did some research
I have never seen such an idea comprised of almost utter bollocks (just my opinion). If you want to tart your weather beaten house up while thinking you'll save £10 a week on heating bills, it might be the way to go. Personally I think there would be better, more sensible & basic options meself, but there we are. My evidence for having formed that somewhat livid opinion would revolve around...
1 - look at the fecking state of these youtube video - they're like something out of ''Carry On Knobhead - Your Guide to Shit Building Ideas''
2 - this is a more balanced view (ie not mine) of what it is & why you do it - also offering up that it's not the only way
http://www.superhomes.org.uk/resources/insulating-a-solid-wall/
3 - now we have the Government giving it the hard sell on the Green issue - with the grants & stuff (over-hyped for me),
https://www.gov.uk/government/case-...g-less-gas-thanks-to-external-wall-insulation
Make it verging on compulsory in the social housing sphere & away we go...
Surround the tall building with stuff that likes to burn
Out of date Fire Regulations, Government sat on their hands about a review of them
'Stay Put' seen as better than evacuation - so you don't need staircases, fire escapes, sprinklers, anything do you? Just flats with fire doors is good enough we reckon
Shoddy arrogant Housing Management attitudes, lax building work supervision inside, but you will have the work done, we won't look particularly closely because we don't care about you very much
a very warm night = open windows, (any fire can now progress vertically outside & laterally inside)
your man's fridge catches fire, or anything else in fact, anything at all
it's very quickly way too late to do anything about the accumulated errors
with approximately 450 people trapped in a burning building that is just going to carry on burning
I have never seen such an idea comprised of almost utter bollocks (just my opinion). If you want to tart your weather beaten house up while thinking you'll save £10 a week on heating bills, it might be the way to go. Personally I think there would be better, more sensible & basic options meself, but there we are. My evidence for having formed that somewhat livid opinion would revolve around...
1 - look at the fecking state of these youtube video - they're like something out of ''Carry On Knobhead - Your Guide to Shit Building Ideas''
2 - this is a more balanced view (ie not mine) of what it is & why you do it - also offering up that it's not the only way
http://www.superhomes.org.uk/resources/insulating-a-solid-wall/
3 - now we have the Government giving it the hard sell on the Green issue - with the grants & stuff (over-hyped for me),
https://www.gov.uk/government/case-...g-less-gas-thanks-to-external-wall-insulation
Make it verging on compulsory in the social housing sphere & away we go...
Surround the tall building with stuff that likes to burn
Out of date Fire Regulations, Government sat on their hands about a review of them
'Stay Put' seen as better than evacuation - so you don't need staircases, fire escapes, sprinklers, anything do you? Just flats with fire doors is good enough we reckon
Shoddy arrogant Housing Management attitudes, lax building work supervision inside, but you will have the work done, we won't look particularly closely because we don't care about you very much
a very warm night = open windows, (any fire can now progress vertically outside & laterally inside)
your man's fridge catches fire, or anything else in fact, anything at all
it's very quickly way too late to do anything about the accumulated errors
with approximately 450 people trapped in a burning building that is just going to carry on burning
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