Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job

No wonder, I wanted to check the ShedEnd site today to see how the online fanbase reacts (one could see yesterday's game as a glimpse of what's coming in the bright future or one could get even more disillusioned because if Potter can't even win the games where they actually play good what then) but that site is borderline unusable, not talking about mobile version too which is an abomination to the eye.

Also most of the Chelsea posters here are quite levelheaded and proper football fans imho. But since I "support no-one in particular" I may not be the best advocate here. :D
 
Dancfc said:
Fair enough on West Ham but I was fairly sure we have aside from that started dominating or atleast 'winning' on the advanced metrics again ever since the Fulham away game and beyond.
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Fulham away (2-1 result, xG 0.71 - 2.40)
Palace home (1-0 result, xG 2.13 - 0.84)
Liverpool away (0-0 result, xG 1.30 - 1.84)
Fulham home (0-0, xG 1.41 - 0.49)
West Ham away (1-1, xG 1.08 - 0.90)
Dortmund away (1-0, xG 1.28 - 2.05)

Figures from understat.com for the league games and some other site for the CL match.

So yeah apart from the West Ham game we have 'won' the xG in all of the last six games despite only getting an actual result in one of them. In the West Ham game we scored two very narrowly disallowed offside goals which for obvious reasons aren't included in the xG numbers but can still be considered decent plays that were just a tad unlucky.

Overall for this period of six matches our xG has been 10.7 for us and 5.7 for the opponents. To have actually scored just three goals is a criminal level of underperformance in front of goal from our lot. Things can only get better if chance creation stays the same or even improves.
 
Rnd898 said:
Fulham away (2-1 result, xG 0.71 - 2.40)
Palace home (1-0 result, xG 2.13 - 0.84)
Liverpool away (0-0 result, xG 1.30 - 1.84)
Fulham home (0-0, xG 1.41 - 0.49)
West Ham away (1-1, xG 1.08 - 0.90)
Dortmund away (1-0, xG 1.28 - 2.05)

Figures from understat.com for the league games and some other site for the CL match.

So yeah apart from the West Ham game we have 'won' the xG in all of the last six games despite only getting an actual result in one of them. In the West Ham game we scored two very narrowly disallowed offside goals which for obvious reasons aren't included in the xG numbers but can still be considered decent plays that were just a tad unlucky.

Overall for this period of six matches our xG has been 10.7 for us and 5.7 for the opponents. To have actually scored just three goals is a criminal level of underperformance in front of goal from our lot. Things can only get better if chance creation stays the same or even improves.
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Yeah United have scored quadruple the goals we have in the last 6 games with a lesser xG. My hope is that it’s a sign of the goals eventually flowing, but the concern is this is identical to the problems Potter’s Brighton had. They started to rectify that early this season so that’s something to hang on to but it’s a super small sample size. Overall I feel encouraged by what I’ve seen in recent weeks.

 
Andre Kagawa said:
We have a lot of Chelsea oppo fans!
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I dunno why but they're generally a lot more bearable than the resident City, Liverpool, Arse fans.

There seems to be an element of gallows humour in their posting and general demeanour which makes them more personable.
 
WeePat said:
Yeah United have scored quadruple the goals we have in the last 6 games with a lesser xG. My hope is that it’s a sign of the goals eventually flowing, but the concern is this is identical to the problems Potter’s Brighton had. They started to rectify that early this season so that’s something to hang on to but it’s a super small sample size. Overall I feel encouraged by what I’ve seen in recent weeks.

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They need their own Benni McCarthy
 
The Corinthian said:
I dunno why but they're generally a lot more bearable than the resident City, Liverpool, Arse fans.

There seems to be an element of gallows humour in their posting and general demeanour which makes them more personable.
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Agreed 100%. I get the same vibe from Spurs fans whenever I lurk their forums. But obviously we havn't had much luck with those (Glaston :lol:).
 
He just needs a few more players...give him some more money to spend Boehly you tight bastard ;)
 
WeePat said:
Yeah United have scored quadruple the goals we have in the last 6 games with a lesser xG. My hope is that it’s a sign of the goals eventually flowing, but the concern is this is identical to the problems Potter’s Brighton had. They started to rectify that early this season so that’s something to hang on to but it’s a super small sample size. Overall I feel encouraged by what I’ve seen in recent weeks.

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Yeah, the last games have started to look like good old Brighton from the last couple of seasons, as in plenty of opportunities created for very little actual end product. My hope is with better players at his disposal Potter will eventually find the problem easier to solve.

But right now the most important thing is to just build on these performances and have the team start showing signs of finally clicking on a more consistent and longer term basis. As long as Potter can do that the lack of goals won't bother me too much in the short term but assuming he survives into next season the team will have to start doing much better on the goalscoring front right from the very start and there can be zero excuses for failing to do it.
 
Rnd898 said:
Fulham away (2-1 result, xG 0.71 - 2.40)
Palace home (1-0 result, xG 2.13 - 0.84)
Liverpool away (0-0 result, xG 1.30 - 1.84)
Fulham home (0-0, xG 1.41 - 0.49)
West Ham away (1-1, xG 1.08 - 0.90)
Dortmund away (1-0, xG 1.28 - 2.05)

Figures from understat.com for the league games and some other site for the CL match.

So yeah apart from the West Ham game we have 'won' the xG in all of the last six games despite only getting an actual result in one of them. In the West Ham game we scored two very narrowly disallowed offside goals which for obvious reasons aren't included in the xG numbers but can still be considered decent plays that were just a tad unlucky.

Overall for this period of six matches our xG has been 10.7 for us and 5.7 for the opponents. To have actually scored just three goals is a criminal level of underperformance in front of goal from our lot. Things can only get better if chance creation stays the same or even improves.
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I think Osihmen will be your main target in the summer. Boehly will have no issue splashing 100m again to get him in.

Just on the xG stuff, I think in Potter's early days at Brighton it was a very similar story. Lots of chances, but they just weren't going in. Not sure how he turned it around as they didn't exactly go big for a striker at Brighton, but he figured it out and got them scoring.

You have to think Chelsea will be a force with a top CF, but a lot of clubs need a CF and if you guys don't have CL football it will be interesting to see who you end up signing as the market is scarce and you could say that Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Madrid and Bayern will probably all be looking to bring someone in.
 
WeePat said:
Yeah United have scored quadruple the goals we have in the last 6 games with a lesser xG. My hope is that it’s a sign of the goals eventually flowing, but the concern is this is identical to the problems Potter’s Brighton had. They started to rectify that early this season so that’s something to hang on to but it’s a super small sample size. Overall I feel encouraged by what I’ve seen in recent weeks.

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Such a small sample size. Across the season Chelsea are 23G (26.2 xG), United are 38G (34.8 xG). Yeah you'll mean revert at some point but that's the nature of the beast.

Ultimately 26xG is 14th in the table.
 
eire-red said:
I think Osihmen will be your main target in the summer. Boehly will have no issue splashing 100m again to get him in.

Just on the xG stuff, I think in Potter's early days at Brighton it was a very similar story. Lots of chances, but they just weren't going in. Not sure how he turned it around as they didn't exactly go big for a striker at Brighton, but he figured it out and got them scoring.

You have to think Chelsea will be a force with a top CF, but a lot of clubs need a CF and if you guys don't have CL football it will be interesting to see who you end up signing as the market is scarce and you could say that Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Madrid and Bayern will probably all be looking to bring someone in.
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I fully agree, I’ve said it multiple times and have been shot down by a few times even by Chelsea posters. We need a striker more than any other position and preferably one that can lead the team. A Drogba or Costa would be perfect in this side.

With regards to XG, I’ve also said it time and again, as a stand alone stat it’s a load of shit. What matters is actual goals and we had 3, not good enough.
 
Teja said:
Such a small sample size. Across the season Chelsea are 23G (26.2 xG), United are 38G (34.8 xG). Yeah you'll mean revert at some point but that's the nature of the beast.

Ultimately 26xG is 14th in the table.
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Yeah for sure I just meant over the last 6 games and that I’m hoping it’s a sign of things to come. I wasn’t trying to suggest anything beyond the fact that performances have improved of late and the stats match the eye test.
 
SirReginald said:
I fully agree, I’ve said it multiple times and have been shot down by a few times even by Chelsea posters. We need a striker more than any other position and preferably one that can lead the team. A Drogba or Costa would be perfect in this side.

With regards to XG, I’ve also said it time and again, as a stand alone stat it’s a load of shit. What matters is actual goals and we had 3, not good enough.
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I think Potter will need a couple seasons to get it right, but I'm just not sure he'll get the time to be honest.

I tended towards Poch over EtH over the summer for the United job, and I've realised I was wrong because EtH came from a team where he was expected to dominate domestically at Ajax. Completely different task at United, but I think it has helped him that he already had that mindset that he needed to win every domestic competition, despite it being the Dutch league of course.

My point being, even if Chelsea do sign a CF, I think Potter will still need time to fully come to terms with what it requires to manage a club like Chelsea.

The massive spending has only put more pressure on him for instant success in many people's eyes. He needs a proper chance.
 
SirReginald said:
I fully agree, I’ve said it multiple times and have been shot down by a few times even by Chelsea posters. We need a striker more than any other position and preferably one that can lead the team. A Drogba or Costa would be perfect in this side.

With regards to XG, I’ve also said it time and again, as a stand alone stat it’s a load of shit. What matters is actual goals and we had 3, not good enough.
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Yeah but xG doesn’t really do anything apart from show you a pattern over a period of time. Of course only goals matter in the strictest sense but xG can give you some extra context that just goals for and against can’t give you. It’s only a load of shit if you think it means something other than what it actually means.
 
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Also, we’ve been here before. At the end of 20-21 season the dominant narrative then was also that Chelsea just needed a striker and when we signed Lukaku he was billed as the missing piece. I was concerned then, as I am concerned now, that people think just getting the latest big name striker who puts up good numbers in a different team to plug him into this team is some kind of magical fix to the problem.
 
Teja said:
Such a small sample size. Across the season Chelsea are 23G (26.2 xG), United are 38G (34.8 xG). Yeah you'll mean revert at some point but that's the nature of the beast.

Ultimately 26xG is 14th in the table.
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Yeah the sample size is small but I'm sure it was deliberately chosen to only represent the period of games since our first January signings started coming in and some important players started coming back from injury as well. And still half of the games were without Felix, Enzo, James and Chilwell playing.

All along me, @WeePat and some others have been saying things can only get better once we have some key additions from the newcomers and injury returnees available for selection and despite it not yet showing up on the score board the performances have definitely gotten a little better as of late and there has been a noticeable improvement in the xG metrics as well even if it's only for a handful of games as of now. Only time will tell whether this 'improvement' will continue for the foreseeable or if we fall back into having bad performances again even with better players available. I have lots of faith in the former but it's by no means a sure thing.
 
WeePat said:
Yeah for sure I just meant over the last 6 games and that I’m hoping it’s a sign of things to come. I wasn’t trying to suggest anything beyond the fact that performances have improved of late and the stats match the eye test.
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Rnd898 said:
Yeah the sample size is small but I'm sure it was deliberately chosen to only represent the period of games since our first January signings started coming in and some important players started coming back from injury as well. And still half of the games were without Felix, Enzo, James and Chilwell playing.

All along me, @WeePat and some others have been saying things can only get better once we have some key additions from the newcomers and injury returnees available for selection and despite it not yet showing up on the score board the performances have definitely gotten a little better as of late and there has been a noticeable improvement in the xG metrics as well even if it's only for a handful of games as of now. Only time will tell whether this 'improvement' will continue for the foreseeable or if we fall back into having bad performances again even with better players available. I have lots of faith in the former but it's by no means a sure thing.
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Fair enough, I think you convinced me to take a punt on Felix in my FPL team.

Any other supporting metrics you saw? (e.g., xT, shots in box etc. improve?)
 
eire-red said:
Just on the xG stuff, I think in Potter's early days at Brighton it was a very similar story. Lots of chances, but they just weren't going in. Not sure how he turned it around as they didn't exactly go big for a striker at Brighton, but he figured it out and got them scoring.
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He never really fixed that at Brighton.

19/20 - xG 47.42, scored 39
20/21 - xG 53.82, scored 40
21/22 - xG 49.57, scored 42
22/23 - xG 11.26 , scored 11

So far at Chelsea he's xG 20.86, scored 16.
(All the above from understat).

He had similar problems with Swansea in the Championship. In 18/19 their xG was 72.0, scoring 65. (FBref).
 
So what people seem to be saying is that, having spent over £300M in January, Chelsea are starting to look a bit better.

I mean, if any team spent £300M in January, they'd start to look a bit better. It's not exactly rocket science.

United spent over £200M in the summer and are looking fecking amazing, because we got the right manager in and the recruitment spot on.

Potter is therefore a bit shit, so long may he stay at Chelsea
 
Sassy Colin said:
So what people seem to be saying is that, having spent over £300M in January, Chelsea are starting to look a bit better.

I mean, if any team spent £300M in January, they'd start to look a bit better. It's not exactly rocket science.

United spent over £200M in the summer and are looking fecking amazing, because we got the right manager in and the recruitment spot on.

Potter is therefore a bit shit, so long may he stay at Chelsea
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Did you though? Half of that went on a player that’s really dividing opinion and would likely be dropped if Sancho fixes his head. You then proceed to get the Aldi Peter Crouch Weghorst in because you used up your budget. I’m not sure that’s spot on recruitment. Your definitely Worlds apart from last year but that has almost nothing to do with your recruitment.
 
SirReginald said:
Did you though?
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Absolutely! Casemiro, Eriksen & Martinez have been absolute revelations. Malacia has been a brilliant squad addition that adds great cover for Shaw and even allow Shaw to in turn cover Martinez.
Antony might need more time but that’s one player and our new carthorse CF is there because the club decided to sell.

Let’s not pretend United got magically miles better, we got better because the recruitment in the Summer was superb.
 
Sassy Colin said:
So what people seem to be saying is that, having spent over £300M in January, Chelsea are starting to look a bit better.

I mean, if any team spent £300M in January, they'd start to look a bit better. It's not exactly rocket science.

United spent over £200M in the summer and are looking fecking amazing, because we got the right manager in and the recruitment spot on.

Potter is therefore a bit shit, so long may he stay at Chelsea
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From the start of the season till the World Cup break, your league record was 8-2-4 with 20 goals scored and 20 goals conceded. You definitely still got better results than we have under GP but it's not like you looked 'fecking amazing' from the start and the performances were often scrappy, as shown by the goal difference of feck all.

Once players like Casemiro, Eriksen and Lisandro started to click you've looked great but to suggest it was just as good right away at the start of the season is revisionist.
 
Sassy Colin said:
So what people seem to be saying is that, having spent over £300M in January, Chelsea are starting to look a bit better.

I mean, if any team spent £300M in January, they'd start to look a bit better. It's not exactly rocket science.

United spent over £200M in the summer and are looking fecking amazing, because we got the right manager in and the recruitment spot on.

Potter is therefore a bit shit, so long may he stay at Chelsea
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You forgot all the money they spent in the summer. Over €600m spent and they look considerably worse.
 
Rnd898 said:
From the start of the season till the World Cup break, your league record was 8-2-4 with 20 goals scored and 20 goals conceded. You definitely still got better results than we have under GP but it's not like you looked 'fecking amazing' from the start and the performances were often scrappy, as shown by the goal difference of feck all.

Once players like Casemiro, Eriksen and Lisandro started to click you've looked great but to suggest it was just as good right away at the start of the season is revisionist.
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When did I say we looked fecking amazing right away? :confused: :wenger:

Just to remind you:

Paul the Wolf said:
You forgot all the money they spent in the summer. Over €600m spent and they look considerably worse.
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Disgusting first half. Can have no complaints if he doesn’t see out the season. We’re getting outplayed at home and losing to the worst team in the league.
 
SirReginald said:
Did you though? Half of that went on a player that’s really dividing opinion and would likely be dropped if Sancho fixes his head. You then proceed to get the Aldi Peter Crouch Weghorst in because you used up your budget. I’m not sure that’s spot on recruitment. Your definitely Worlds apart from last year but that has almost nothing to do with your recruitment.
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What a stupid post :lol:
 
WeePat said:
Disgusting first half. Can have no complaints if he doesn’t see out the season. We’re getting outplayed at home and losing to the worst team in the league.
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What’s the point in doing it now? You’ve already tanked the season and the next manager has a bigger problem than Potter if Potter did have input in who was brought in (as Chelsea fans kept telling us)
 
It’s extraordinary how bad they are given a £600m outlay in six months.
 
cyberman said:
What’s the point in doing it now? You’ve already tanked the season and the next manager has a bigger problem than Potter if Potter did have input in who was brought in (as Chelsea fans kept telling us)
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Personally do not want him sacked but I also know it’s a results business and it will be 4 wins in 21 if we don’t win today. It seems inevitable if this sort of form goes on.
 
Want him to do a bit better so they keep him for next season. They're going to sack him too quickly at this rate. At the end of the day all it takes for a football club with big spending ability to be competent is a good manager (for the level). Potter was a good manager for Brighton (though they've replaced him with a better manager), but it's a different beast managing a big club. Chelsea will be dangerous next season if they hire someone like Luis Enrique. If not, nothing to worry about.
 
WeePat said:
Personally do not want him sacked but I also know it’s a results business and it will be 4 wins in 21 if we don’t win today. It seems inevitable if this sort of form goes on.
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Reckon if you don't win I'll or at least draw then I'm knocked out of last man standing..... I'll have to text Todd and tell him to bin Potter.
 
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