Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job

TheMagicFoolBus said:
Them winning the league isn't a given either - see the CVs of Unai Emery and Mauricio Pochettino.
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fecking hell, and Tuchel himself who managed half of that fecking season man, picking up less points per game than Poch. :lol:

Poch won it easily in a season he wasn’t picking up the shit mid-season from Tuchel. Outrageously unfair to use Poch as a an example to put the man at least half at fault for that league loss on a pedestal.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Very odd argument. Tuchel won the CL and got Chelsea to every single cup final we participated in save the second CL (where we were desperately unlucky against the eventual winners), has demonstrated his ability to manage superstars at PSG and was unlucky to not do a league / CL double there, and has demonstrated his ability to win silverware in a situation where the budgets & odds were completely stacked against him at Dortmund.

If Ten Hag goes on to achieve half of that it'd be impressive - and again, Tuchel is 4 years younger. How much more does he need to do to be considered one of the very best?
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Tuchel won the league with PSG because that’s what managers do there, he then had a mare and was sacked.
He won the champions league with Chelsea di matteo style and was flunking in the league, and got sacked.
 
I feel sorry for Potter, he's a likeable bloke and the job he did at Brighton was brilliant. It's just a shame he's come in to a complete circus. He'll get the boot probably next season and hopefully find himself at a club he can actually have a say at.
 
Watching the game last night, I was reminded of the way we played under Ole, basically no shape and hoping for some individual brilliance to win the game.

Its amazing how United and Chelsea have gone in complete opposite directions in such a short space of time.

United now focus on improved playing systems and then isolating certain positions that need addressing and buying appropriately.

I feel for Potter, Im sure he wants to do the above but its virtually impossible when the club just go out and buy a shed load of players and the manager somehow has to fit everyone in and improve results.

Last night they just looked like a team of individuals with no shape, they can write off this season for sure.
 
mikeyt said:
I feel sorry for Potter, he's a likeable bloke and the job he did at Brighton was brilliant. It's just a shame he's come in to a complete circus. He'll get the boot probably next season and hopefully find himself at a club he can actually have a say at.
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I don't, he knew the mess he was walking in to, should of stayed at Brighton.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Tuchel won the league with PSG because that’s what managers do there, he then had a mare and was sacked.
He won the champions league with Chelsea di matteo style and was flunking in the league, and got sacked.
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There's no shame in the fact that Tuchel is a good/very good manager. Odd that Chelsea fans think that he's something he's not.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
fecking hell, and Tuchel himself who managed half of that fecking season man, picking up less points per game than Poch. :lol:

Poch won it easily in a season he wasn’t picking up the shit mid-season from Tuchel. Outrageously unfair to use Poch as a an example to put the man at least half at fault for that league loss on a pedestal.
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The season started the day after PSG's CL final in Lisbon. With half the squad still on vacation, they suffered a Covid outbreak that probably cost them more points.

Pochettino also failed in the French Cup that year, something that never happened to Tuchel. Emery, however, is a different story. He is the only manager in the QSI era to have failed to win the league in a season in which he coached PSG from start to finish.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Overachieved? We were by far the most dominant side in the knockout portion of that CL tournament. Di Matteo fluking it was completely different - especially because that team with Terry / Lampard / Drogba / Cech more or less managed itself. Equating those two accomplishments is ridiculous. Also PSG for all they've spent have only ever made one CL final - and that was under Tuchel. Them winning the league isn't a given either - see the CVs of Unai Emery and Mauricio Pochettino.

Even taking your qualifications to be elite at face value, what makes you think Tuchel has less potential than EtH? Is it purely the allure of the unknown? Because that's pretty shortsighted and I'd have to agree with @Hansi Fick's assessment of your brain if that's the case.
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Whilst I dont agree with him that Tuchel isn't a great coach, you could argue outside of the CL win with Chelsea where they had a very favourable draw, ETH run to the semis with where they should of really reached the final is as impressive in my opinion as what he did with PSG.
 
Baneofthegame said:
Whilst I dont agree with him that Tuchel isn't a great coach, you could argue outside of the CL win with Chelsea where they had a very favourable draw, ETH run to the semis with where they should of really reached the final is as impressive in my opinion as what he did with PSG.
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Very favourable draw? Atletico, Real Madrid and then Man City? GTFO!
 
Sassy Colin said:
I read that, of the 8 players they signed in January, only 3 are registered for the CL squad :lol:

Auba wasn't included in the squad either and he fecked off to Milan for the weekend.

What a dump of a club.
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I assume most are cup-tied though? There's a limit I think on the amount of players a club can register having played in the CL for another team. Might have made that up though.
 
Baneofthegame said:
Whilst I dont agree with him that Tuchel isn't a great coach, you could argue outside of the CL win with Chelsea where they had a very favourable draw, ETH run to the semis with where they should of really reached the final is as impressive in my opinion as what he did with PSG.
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:lol:. And lost to spurs. For that alone he should be sacked thousand times.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
He won the champions league with Chelsea di matteo style and was flunking in the league, and got sacked.
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Am really struggling with how exactly he won it 'di matteo' style. If you go on the basis of some once-in-a-lifetime occurrence, it is obviously bullshit because he was in CL final the year before and then almost reached CL semi-final the year after he won. He also got to QF with Dortmund.

If we look at that exact year in isolation as some kind of fluke, they deserved to win every tie and a final. City in the final had 1 shot on target and fewer shots overall (7-8). Bayern in that famous CL final against Chelsea had multiple great chances along with 35 shots overall. So, in what manner he won it 'di matteo' style? Am genuinely struggling to understand.

I understand some question marks about him regarding his personality, long-term, recruitment etc... and for example, he also wouldn't be my choice for United because he is first and foremost coach while the current United setup requires a much more 'hands-on' approach for which ten Hag seems like a perfect choice.
Still, there is no need to go from one extreme to another. Most of that Chelsea team with which Tuchel won the CL and Super Cup, got top 4, and went to 3 other cup finals people here wouldn't touch with a barge pole. I mean, it had Havertz - Werner - Mount front three.
 
Rajiztar said:
:lol:. And lost to spurs. For that alone he should be sacked thousand times.
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Yeah, taking that young Ajax side past previous finalists Real and Juventus while playing brilliant football and then missing out on the CL final because the team conceded in pretty much last second of the game should have got him a sack. :rolleyes:
 
Woodzy said:
I assume most are cup-tied though? There's a limit I think on the amount of players a club can register having played in the CL for another team. Might have made that up though.
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There's no such thing as cup tied anymore, but the UEFA rules allow for adding only three new players for the knockout stages of European competitions granted there's room in the squad list. For us that was Felix, Mudryk and Enzo who all played in the CL group stages for their previous clubs. To make room for them Auba was left out, Jorginho was removed after being sold anyway and one remaining spot was already free.

Badiashile, Madueke and the two youngsters D. Fofana and Andrey Santos missed out, though the latter doesn't even have his work permit yet and I doubt he's going to be around the first team this season anyway.

The last of the 8 new signings Malo Gusto hasn't even joined yet, and will only arrive in the summer so no wonder he's not been registered. :lol:
 
Jim Beam said:
Am really struggling with how exactly he won it 'di matteo' style. If you go on the basis of some once-in-a-lifetime occurrence, it is obviously bullshit because he was in CL final the year before and then almost reached CL semi-final the year after he won. He also got to QF with Dortmund.

If we look at that exact year in isolation as some kind of fluke, they deserved to win every tie and a final. City in the final had 1 shot on target and fewer shots overall (7-8). Bayern in that famous CL final against Chelsea had multiple great chances along with 35 shots overall. So, in what manner he won it 'di matteo' style? Am genuinely struggling to understand.

I understand some question marks about him regarding his personality, long-term, recruitment etc... and for example, he also wouldn't be my choice for United because he is first and foremost coach while the current United setup requires a much more 'hands-on' approach for which ten Hag seems like a perfect choice.
Still, there is no need to go from one extreme to another. Most of that Chelsea team with which Tuchel won the CL and Super Cup, got top 4, and went to 3 other cup finals people here wouldn't touch with a barge pole. I mean, it had Havertz - Werner - Mount front three.
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Anyone claiming we flukes our 2nd trophy is either a half wit or green with envy. We played some fantastic football that year and outplayed the best teams in Europe. Defensively we were the best side in Europe, for chances created we were up there and the scary thing is.. if that front 3 knew how to score we would have likely been top of that too. We missed soooo many sitters.
 
Pintu said:
The season started the day after PSG's CL final in Lisbon. With half the squad still on vacation, they suffered a Covid outbreak that probably cost them more points.

Pochettino also failed in the French Cup that year, something that never happened to Tuchel.
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There’s excuses for everything, Poch still picked up more points per game than him that season, both managed half a season each, both are at fault. Poch did it despite not knowing the squad, & despite them being alien to his methods, he also, like Tuchel, took over a side with no pre-season that was “fatigued”.

Just seems ridiculously unfair to cite Poch’s half season as a reason to paint Tuchel in a good light.
 
Jim Beam said:
Am really struggling with how exactly he won it 'di matteo' style. If you go on the basis of some once-in-a-lifetime occurrence, it is obviously bullshit because he was in CL final the year before and then almost reached CL semi-final the year after he won. He also got to QF with Dortmund.

If we look at that exact year in isolation as some kind of fluke, they deserved to win every tie and a final. City in the final had 1 shot on target and fewer shots overall (7-8). Bayern in that famous CL final against Chelsea had multiple great chances along with 35 shots overall. So, in what manner he won it 'di matteo' style? Am genuinely struggling to understand.

I understand some question marks about him regarding his personality, long-term, recruitment etc... and for example, he also wouldn't be my choice for United because he is first and foremost coach while the current United setup requires a much more 'hands-on' approach for which ten Hag seems like a perfect choice.
Still, there is no need to go from one extreme to another. Most of that Chelsea team with which Tuchel won the CL and Super Cup, got top 4, and went to 3 other cup finals people here wouldn't touch with a barge pole. I mean, it had Havertz - Werner - Mount front three.
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Yeah I totally get what you’re saying and I said it more tongue in cheek as he won the champions league but was it the following year their league form was dreadful.
He’s a good manager no doubt but maybe more a cup game manager with good/great one game tactics than having the longevity and consistency to do well in a league.
 
Baneofthegame said:
Guess City should of sacked Guardiola as well then!
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Of course. At least ten Haag didn't have the luxury to spend much money equal to pep. But pep it's sackable offence. Whatever way you look into it.Losing to spurs in qf deserved sacking consider his overall team quality and the money spent.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
fecking hell, and Tuchel himself who managed half of that fecking season man, picking up less points per game than Poch. :lol:

Poch won it easily in a season he wasn’t picking up the shit mid-season from Tuchel. Outrageously unfair to use Poch as a an example to put the man at least half at fault for that league loss on a pedestal.
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That's ridiculous. PSG got completely screwed over by the delayed CL tournament - they had no pre-season and had to rest most of their players initially, and then they all came back from their breaks with COVID.

Also look up which sides Poch dropped points to that year - he did a far worse job despite much better circumstances.
 
Baneofthegame said:
Whilst I dont agree with him that Tuchel isn't a great coach, you could argue outside of the CL win with Chelsea where they had a very favourable draw, ETH run to the semis with where they should of really reached the final is as impressive in my opinion as what he did with PSG.
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Sure. And then Tuchel won it the next year. And has previous runs with Dortmund and his second one with Chelsea was also excellent.

I'm not trying to argue that Ten Hag is a poor manager or anything - far from it. I find it a bit ridiculous that anyone would say he has more potential upside than Tuchel who has consistently accomplished more in a variety of different settings and is 4 years younger.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
That's ridiculous. PSG got completely screwed over by the delayed CL tournament - they had no pre-season and had to rest most of their players initially, and then they all came back from their breaks with COVID.

Also look up which sides Poch dropped points to that year - he did a far worse job despite much better circumstances.
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Better circumstances? fecking hell, did he not also inherit a squad that had been run into the ground then?
Regardless of that it’s never ever better to take over a squad mid-season compared to having coached them for 2 fecking years. It’s quite frankly ridiculous to even argue such nonsense. Both are at at the very least equally at fault for that league loss. The guy taking over mid season, inheriting someone else’s team and taking more points per game aint fecking more at fault that’s for sure.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Better circumstances? fecking hell, did he not also inherit a squad that had been run into the ground then?
Regardless of that it’s never ever better to take over a squad mid-season compared to having coached them for 2 fecking years. It’s quite frankly ridiculous to even argue such nonsense. Both are at at the very least equally at fault for that league loss. The guy taking over mid season, inheriting someone else’s team and taking more points per game aint fecking more at fault that’s for sure.
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What? The squad Poch inherited was fine because the players were back playing again.

Tuchel's dropped points were as follows: lost away to Lens (finished 7th), home to Marseille (5th), away to Monaco (3rd), drew at home vs. Bordeaux (12th), lost home to Lyon (4th), and drew at Lille (1st).

Under Poch, PSG dropped these points: drew at St-Ettienne (11th), lost at Lorient (16th), home to Monaco (3rd), away to Nantes (18th), home to Lille (1st), and drew at Rennes (6th).

Poch blew that title with terrible results against terrible teams. And they didn't win the cup that year either.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
What? The squad Poch inherited was fine because the players were back playing again.

Tuchel's dropped points were as follows: lost away to Lens (finished 7th), home to Marseille (5th), away to Monaco (3rd), drew at home vs. Bordeaux (12th), lost home to Lyon (4th), and drew at Lille (1st).

Under Poch, PSG dropped these points: drew at St-Ettienne (11th), lost at Lorient (16th), home to Monaco (3rd), away to Nantes (18th), home to Lille (1st), and drew at Rennes (6th).

Poch blew that title with terrible results against terrible teams. And they didn't win the cup that year either.
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Under Poch they also picked up more points per game, so obviously their results against the better teams were better than eh? :lol:

List as many shit results as you like, if one manager collected more points per game, he either did better against the top teams, or did better against the lesser teams man. Either way, he did better.

And why are you ignoring the massive elephant in the room, the fact that Tuchel worked with those players for two years coaching his methods, whereas Poch was parachuted in mid-season. Since when has that ever been “more favourable circumstances”?

If you offered any manager in the world the opportunity to take over Paris Saint-Germain at the start of preseason and coach them for two years leading into a season; else be parachuted in mid-season, with them flailing around having just lost a manager many players liked… which “favourable circumstances do you think they would take”?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Under Poch they also picked up more points per game, so obviously their results against the better teams were better than eh? :lol:

List as many shit results as you like, if one manager collected more points per game, he either did better against the top teams, or did better against the lesser teams man. Either way, he did better.

And why are you ignoring the massive elephant in the room, the fact that Tuchel worked with those players for two years coaching his methods, whereas Poch was parachuted in mid-season. Since when has that ever been “more favourable circumstances”?

If you offered any manager in the world the opportunity to take over Paris Saint-Germain at the start of preseason and coach them for two years leading into a season; else be parachuted in mid-season, with them flailing around having just lost a manager many players liked… which “favourable circumstances do you think they would take”?
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Literally the whole point is that Tuchel didn't have a preseason. The CL final they played in was the day before the French league season began. Given those circumstances with all the best players going on holiday and coming back with COVID, yes, coming in midseason with the whole squad to choose from is far far more favourable, it's not even a debate.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Overachieved? We were by far the most dominant side in the knockout portion of that CL tournament. Di Matteo fluking it was completely different - especially because that team with Terry / Lampard / Drogba / Cech more or less managed itself. Equating those two accomplishments is ridiculous. Also PSG for all they've spent have only ever made one CL final - and that was under Tuchel. Them winning the league isn't a given either - see the CVs of Unai Emery and Mauricio Pochettino.

Even taking your qualifications to be elite at face value, what makes you think Tuchel has less potential than EtH? Is it purely the allure of the unknown? Because that's pretty shortsighted and I'd have to agree with @Hansi Fick's assessment of your brain if that's the case.
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They are called eyes.

Unless you are Simeone a dominant modern style of play is more sustainable than what Tuchel offers up. He will have good years, Jose will still have good years but Tuchel is not a coach to go all in on.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
They are called eyes.

Unless you are Simeone a dominant modern style of play is more sustainable than what Tuchel offers up. He will have good years, Jose will still have good years but Tuchel is not a coach to go all in on.
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A dominant modern style of play? You mean exactly what Tuchel does? He's very obviously from the Guardiola school - strict positional play, extreme focus on possession & counter-pressing and maintaining a 5/5 structure with all channels occupied.

Our underlying numbers under Tuchel were absolutely elite; the problem for him was the same as it's been for Chelsea ever since Diego Costa left - we have underperformed our xG every single season since then because we lack ruthlessness in front of goal.

You can't possibly think he's similar to Mourinho, you'd be hard pressed to find two managers more diametrically opposed from a tactical perspective.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Our underlying numbers under Tuchel were absolutely elite; the problem for him was the same as it's been for Chelsea ever since Diego Costa left - we have underperformed our xG every single season since then because we lack ruthlessness in front of goal.
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Chelsea
21/22: Goals= 76. xG= 70.7.
20/21: Goals= 58. xG= 62.4.
19/20: Goals=69. xG= 69.2.
18/19: Goals=63. xG= 58.6.

Source: FBREF.
 
jymufc20 said:
I don't, he knew the mess he was walking in to, should of stayed at Brighton.
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Meh no one would turn down a big job like that if you've never experienced it before. Of course he knew it was a bit of a circus but he also knew he'd have plenty of transfer money and some talented players to work with.

Thing is I'm not sure he has any say whatsoever on anything besides picking a squad on match day.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Well slap my ass and call me Sally, I stand corrected. Appreciate you pointing that out.

Point remains that we didn't struggle to create under Tuchel.
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In the second half of last season we definitely did.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
True. But given how tumultuous things were off the pitch I don't really hold that against him.
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It's gone onto this season though. We lack creativity especially when James is out.
Hopefully the likes of Felix and Enzo can help with this.
 
jakko said:
It's gone onto this season though. We lack creativity especially when James is out.
Hopefully the likes of Felix and Enzo can help with this.
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I don’t think we lack creativity. Same players were creating for fun 2 seasons ago. Problem lies in the players head. Half of them are beaten before they even walk onto the pitch. There’s a real difference in players with confidence and players with no confidence. I don’t think it’s all on Potter that we play too many safe passes, it’s great to keep possession in the oppositions half but it’s another thing to be able to use that possession positively and effect the game.
 
SirReginald said:
I don’t think we lack creativity. Same players were creating for fun 2 seasons ago. Problem lies in the players head. Half of them are beaten before they even walk onto the pitch. There’s a real difference in players with confidence and players with no confidence. I don’t think it’s all on Potter that we play too many safe passes, it’s great to keep possession in the oppositions half but it’s another thing to be able to use that possession positively and effect the game.
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Well.....for my part I always thought that part of it was the weak side of Tuchel's system, even at peak performance. Control like anyone else, but creativity not on par with the best rivals.
 
I'm worried he'll get booted. Desperately need them to pick up a couple of wins soon.
 
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