You can question how good of a fit Tuchel is for the long-term and also maybe his personality (although he looked quite settled/happy at Chelsea), but in terms of tactics and coaching he is definitely elite.
Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
You can question how good of a fit Tuchel is for the long-term and also maybe his personality (although he looked quite settled/happy at Chelsea), but in terms of tactics and coaching he is definitely elite.
I don’t see any characteristics of top-manager( in the bigger pounds/stages) from this man especially in terms of mentality part. He definitely lacks winning-mentality.
Maybe time will tell everything and it is up to him. At least, I see some of his potential during Brighton’s days. But in this situation, I would say he does his job poorly.
Maybe time will tell everything and it is up to him. At least, I see some of his potential during Brighton’s days. But in this situation, I would say he does his job poorly.
Last edited:
Thought Potter did well at Brighton on relatively little resources. Scoring was a problem for them regularly but at the same time they played some good stuff. Wouldn't say I'm the absolute biggest fan of xG but it's a stat I definitely pay quite a lot of attention to. Their numbers were always decent and we all know how wasteful Welbeck could be at times. Then there's Maupay, far from clinical as Everton fans are now seeing too.
Thng is with Chelsea, they're actually struggling to create that much. Werner was wasteful for a couple of years but they got rid of him before Potter came in. Havertz isn't as bad, but isn't exactly a top marksman either. They did add Sterling whose finishing isn't the best at times too.
Still, the fact is that while some Chelsea players aren't the best finishers in the world they're only on 28 expected goals so far this season (10th best in the league) while Brighton are on 34 . Not even creating that many chances anymore and he hasn't been able to fix it. Whether it's wastefulness at Brighton or lack of creativity at Chelsea it's beginning to look like he's a manger who can't get his teams scoring a lot of goals.
Thng is with Chelsea, they're actually struggling to create that much. Werner was wasteful for a couple of years but they got rid of him before Potter came in. Havertz isn't as bad, but isn't exactly a top marksman either. They did add Sterling whose finishing isn't the best at times too.
Still, the fact is that while some Chelsea players aren't the best finishers in the world they're only on 28 expected goals so far this season (10th best in the league) while Brighton are on 34 . Not even creating that many chances anymore and he hasn't been able to fix it. Whether it's wastefulness at Brighton or lack of creativity at Chelsea it's beginning to look like he's a manger who can't get his teams scoring a lot of goals.
Last edited:
They lost their POTS and PPOTS in Cucurella and one of their most important players in Bissouma before the season began. Trossard has only been out of the squad for two games. He was on the bench for one of them. The facts are quite simple so far in that De Zerbi only has one more win than Potter despite playing 7 more games than him with Brighton so to state they are much better so far is a bit false.
The fact that De Zerbi has 5 wins in 13 and can go 5th if he wins those two games in hand says a lot more about the standard of the league than it does about De Zerbi to me despite De Zerbi apparently being so magnificent. Up until now he's been alright with some great moments.
Last edited:
Ole comparisons are going too far! Brighton at least played quality football. At no point in Ole's reign did we play quality football, maybe when he first took over and took the shackles off Mourinho's extensive organisation it looked reasonably functional for a bit. The rest of the time we were just a less effective Hodgson era Crystal Palace with much better players.
I agree in interviews Potter is looking pretty out of his depth in a Moyes/Ole sort of manner though and making the same sort of unforgivable soundbites for an elite club. I think he is a top level coach/ tactician but that doesn't matter much if you don't have the gravitas to withstand the pressure cooker of intense scrutiny that comes with managing a massive club.
I did think he had great potential as a manager so it's disappointing to see him wilt and looking quite so uncomfortable in his pressers etc. He might come good who knows. His Brighton team went through big patches where they would draw every game for about 10 in a row. They did create a shed load of chances though they just had danny welbeck up front.
I agree in interviews Potter is looking pretty out of his depth in a Moyes/Ole sort of manner though and making the same sort of unforgivable soundbites for an elite club. I think he is a top level coach/ tactician but that doesn't matter much if you don't have the gravitas to withstand the pressure cooker of intense scrutiny that comes with managing a massive club.
I did think he had great potential as a manager so it's disappointing to see him wilt and looking quite so uncomfortable in his pressers etc. He might come good who knows. His Brighton team went through big patches where they would draw every game for about 10 in a row. They did create a shed load of chances though they just had danny welbeck up front.
This guy is an absolute fraud. The most overrated manager/head coach in the world.
There's a manager there but Chelsea just isn't a good fit for him, you can tell already it's not going to work out. With the money Boehly is throwing around he's not going to 'trust the process' and give Potter 2-3 years to sort this out, he wants Chelsea to be winning games now. One more loss and Potter is done I think.
Well he certainly wasn't doing anything special since he almost got sacked, but I definitely saw more of a clear tactical approach than this current Chelsea squad, I didn't see any idea on the pitch when I watched Chelsea for the last 7-8 games.
And I'm not trying to make him out as some godlike manager all this time, just saying that it pays off to trust a manager's philosophy and not keep this endless cycle going and he's a good example. They (Arsenal) play teams off the pitch and he does play a big part in that. He got a lot of stick so I'll give him the praise as well.
I think Potter is able to do well, and should be given time to try and do so, but I can't help but be confused when I watch them play. I would be concerned if this was our team. It actually almost feels like watching us under Van Gaal.
Why have his fanboys stopped fighting me?
Fair weather fanboys.
Fair weather fanboys.
Wrong. Runnarsson, Pablo Mari, Aaron trusty, Cedric, Sambi lokonga, Matt Ryan, Nuno Tavares all signed under Arteta with little to no success.
They're still here. Sigh.
He's alright. Nowhere near Klopp and even further behind Pep.
You mean that's a thing?? You mean like the Rangnites??
If anything, arteta has shown that patience is what's required. Shite for 2-3 seasons and then it all came together.
Potters a decent coach. He will just need time.
What ever has been said about potter -- after half a season was thrown at arteta after 18 months. And yet....
Potters a decent coach. He will just need time.
What ever has been said about potter -- after half a season was thrown at arteta after 18 months. And yet....
I wouldn't have him at United, so in my mind that means he isn't elite.
Sure. Doesn't change the fact that he's one of the 5 best managers in the world. Regardless of where you rank him and more to the point, it's indisputable that he's miles better than Potter.
Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel is okay, Tierney, Zinchenko, Tomiyasu, Partey, Odegaard, Gabriel Jesus. Those are players they paid for and are the core of the team. The players you mentioned never started nor had the expectation to be key starters. The fact that they didn't have to spend big on 2 of their 3 forwards in Martinelli and Saka has done wonders for them, allowing to pay for White, Zinchenko, Gabriel Jesus.
He inherited a rubbish squad and clearly decided that we would be a low block sitting team, launching balls to Auba to solo win games. It wasn't pretty but the plan was very clear to see and a place holder until he could buy younger and better players. Potter doesn't seem to be involved in choosing half of this squad. He will be given until the end of the season and sacked if there is no clear sign of progress or European football.
Maybe your mind isn't elite?
Graham, just leave!
"This was a step for us!". Wow!
Potter looks shite, sure. He's at an absolute circus of a club though, so that doesn't help. Tuchel did relatively well, but he's just another one of those managers that is a pain in the arse and has to be turfed out.
It is.
True story. I'm only interested in elite or potentially elite managers at United.
So Tuchel despite achieving more and being 4 years younger has less potential than Ten Hag, presumably?
Potentially, yes. Ten Hag is on an upward trajectory and his ceiling is relatively unknown. I think we've seen Tuchel's level and while it is good/very good, it is some way short of the very best.
Watching it in action, it doesn't strike me as.
Very odd argument. Tuchel won the CL and got Chelsea to every single cup final we participated in save the second CL (where we were desperately unlucky against the eventual winners), has demonstrated his ability to manage superstars at PSG and was unlucky to not do a league / CL double there, and has demonstrated his ability to win silverware in a situation where the budgets & odds were completely stacked against him at Dortmund.
If Ten Hag goes on to achieve half of that it'd be impressive - and again, Tuchel is 4 years younger. How much more does he need to do to be considered one of the very best?
How so? You think Tuchel is something special?
Considering the fact he is English, which isn’t a good start off point. Potter is actually a pretty good manager and has done well at previous clubs. Especially Brighton
I can’t blame him for taking the Chelsea job. Most in his situation would do the same. But it was blindingly obviously he would fail miserably. He replaced a bonafide world class manager. One which he isn’t even remotely on the same level as.
it was an hilarious turn of events and even the most fair weather fan saw how ridiculous it all was.
delighted how it turned out and Chelsea deserve all the bad luck that comes their way.
I can’t blame him for taking the Chelsea job. Most in his situation would do the same. But it was blindingly obviously he would fail miserably. He replaced a bonafide world class manager. One which he isn’t even remotely on the same level as.
it was an hilarious turn of events and even the most fair weather fan saw how ridiculous it all was.
delighted how it turned out and Chelsea deserve all the bad luck that comes their way.
Agreed that Tuchel massively overachieved to win the Champions League with you guys. At the same time though, Di Matteo did the same. You could say that you were desperately unlucky against Madrid, but you were very fortunate to be in the tie at all after the first leg. Getting to cup finals is all well and good, but he didn’t come close to winning the Premier League and began this season badly, whilst doing his usual trick of falling out with people. PSG winning the league isn't an achievement and even Avram Grant and Pochettino got to a Champions League final. No idea what he accomplished with Dortmund.
For Tuchel to be considered as one of the best, he needs to return to England and start winning a few titles. Only my opinion of course.
Potter is hiding the whole team under his cloak of invisibility.
I’m really glad we have Ten Hag, and not this guy. A United manager would be slaughtered for not getting results after this level of investment.
Also, he just seems incredibly dull. He looks dull, he sounds dull, he acts dull. Moyes 2.0.
Also, he just seems incredibly dull. He looks dull, he sounds dull, he acts dull. Moyes 2.0.
Overachieved? We were by far the most dominant side in the knockout portion of that CL tournament. Di Matteo fluking it was completely different - especially because that team with Terry / Lampard / Drogba / Cech more or less managed itself. Equating those two accomplishments is ridiculous. Also PSG for all they've spent have only ever made one CL final - and that was under Tuchel. Them winning the league isn't a given either - see the CVs of Unai Emery and Mauricio Pochettino.
Even taking your qualifications to be elite at face value, what makes you think Tuchel has less potential than EtH? Is it purely the allure of the unknown? Because that's pretty shortsighted and I'd have to agree with @Hansi Fick's assessment of your brain if that's the case.
We’re also probably basing our idea of his charisma from watching him speak English so always going to be a bit more cautious/simple with a 2nd language.
Potter is just very Southgate-esque in his mannerisms for me.
Yeah, of course he overachieved. You wouldn't have had Chelsea as favourites to win the Champions League at the start of that season, or against Madrid and City for that matter. Obviously I was being facetious regarding Di Matteo, but it's still a cup competition and strange things ocassionally happen. PSG winning the league should be a given. Them underachieving in Europe is a failing of those previous managers.
As for Tuchel's potential, I just feel that we have seen what he has to offer. Ultimately he's a good/very good manager, but short of the very best and doesn't seem to be capable of leading a club long term. I'm not categorically stating that ten Hag has greater potential than Tuchel, I'm merely saying that we are yet to see him level out. The future will tell us whether he can win a title or two with us and break the mould.
They don't have an football identity, it's easy to see. It's quite easy to blame him, personally I think they should already be playing better, but it isn't easy arriving at a club like this with the season already going, without a pre season and having a new owner who is making the days I played Football Manager (8 years ago) a reasonable and sensitive owner/manager.
Some of the stuff they are doing doesn't make sense even from a football point of view, I let other guys to discuss from a financial point of view. But he has to be judged having a pre season to work this and some of the other players who will come.
By the way I saw some comparisons related with his Brighton and De Zerbi, even if it's true Potter started the season with more wins and De Zerbi has more defeats I don't know anyone who feels this Brighton team under Potter played better football, getting points is one thing playing well is another, but that's always difficult to measure.
Some of the stuff they are doing doesn't make sense even from a football point of view, I let other guys to discuss from a financial point of view. But he has to be judged having a pre season to work this and some of the other players who will come.
By the way I saw some comparisons related with his Brighton and De Zerbi, even if it's true Potter started the season with more wins and De Zerbi has more defeats I don't know anyone who feels this Brighton team under Potter played better football, getting points is one thing playing well is another, but that's always difficult to measure.
I don’t think he’s comparable to Moyes. There appears no structure. You don’t even get the feeling he has a say.
Typically, that’s what you get when you join as head coach. Ten Hag and Klopp are both first team managers. Guardiola is possibly the only head coach in the world that gets a say and that’s in part because he is friends with his bosses and his record which frankly demands it.
Seems odd that Chelsea would sack Tuchel, who is a better first team coach, for not being involved more in the other areas of the game, and then hire Potter and prevent him from doing that. Is he even picking the first 11? Mudryk selection yesterday despite a cold seems bizzare that no serious manager would do.
Last edited: