Because he probably didn't want to be there, the players weren't good enough and they had the most random squad ever. It did work out for a while, then Rodriguez went rogue and the mone dried up.
Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
And why did Moyes not work out at United? Plenty of years of experience....
Not at the top level! Again, to make myself clear, if you don't have experience managing at the top level you do not know how to manage expectation and it will ultimately cost you your job. You're confusing old = experience.
You can use the "hasn't worked his way up" argument on a lot of managers, especially the ones that were big name players and walked into pretty cushy gigs, like Lampard and Gerrard who you've mentioned.
Using that argument against a bloke who took a team from the 4th tier of Swedish football to the Europa League knockouts is absolutely laughable.
What you are asking for is basically impossible. If you dont have experience at top level you wont know how to do it, but given that you have to get the job to get experience in the first place that is never going to work out, according to your theory.
Pep is probably the best manager in the world at the moment and he went straight to one of the biggest jobs in world football and was a huge success.
I was referring specifically to him jumping from Brighton to Chelsea.
No it isn't! You simply move to bigger club that doesn't have the expectations Chelsea has, ala a Tottenham of this world. Then you push yourself and learn on the job to handle expectation or more difficult circumstances and then you become ready for a job like Chelsea.
He didn't help himself by taking the whole Brighton back room (also with no experience at this level) with him. He was the most experienced head in the room, you know you're in trouble when that's the case.
Yes Pep again, the similarities between Pep and Potter are paralleled.
Apparently managing B teams before getting big jobs is fine, that means they have good experience and that's the normal process. Working their way up proving at every level doesn't count unless they manage at Spurs or equivalent club.
But examples of Conte doesn't work because of some reasons, same with Arteta.
Why is that so? Because English coaches never worked anywhere but England? They're lack of foreign languages? Tuchel is fluent in German, French, English and studying Spanish. He just recently said it's very important for players to talk in their mother tongue sometimes.
He'd already turned Brighton into one of the best teams in the league outside the top 6. Where else could have been the next step for him? He'd earned his go at a bigger side and anything less than a top 6 club would have been a sideways move at best.
Now, his choice of specific club is a different issue. Chelsea was an awful fit for him and he would have been a lot better off waiting for a chance at a more patient club who would let him build a side. Basically any of the other big sides would have been a better choice, but it's understandable why you'd back yourself and take the chance, and I don't think you can really say he hadn't earned a shot at that level.
At team that was regular top 6 maybe? With ambitions of being top 4? Brighton to Tottenham is not a sideways move by any stretch.
Which top 4 side do you think he would have succeed at then if Chelsea was the wrong appointment? What have you seen that makes you think he'd be great at Liverpool, City, Arsenal or United?
It's wild that you think these managers all had the same experiences before managing a big team, but sure, Potter would have smashed it at Arsenal given the same job as Arteta.
Not sure if that's wild or you being clueless on every manager is.
Also good to see you ducked out replying to other post.
With all due respect, you are just all over the place. You made so random points that you don't even remember and now you are saying you didn't make any of them.
Would be nice to get a list of specific teams that are okay as stepping stones
It's a complicated flow diagram tbf
I thought it was generally agreed on here that it was De Zerbi who took them to the next step? He led them to 9th placed finish last year and while they looked coordinated, had problems scoring. They were nothing like the free flowing attack you're seeing now. He did well yes, but feels like we're overrating him a wee bit by rewriting history...
Brighton were nowhere the team they are now, Potter took them multiple steps higher that what it was before Potter. Some of the performance under him vs big clubs was fantastic and I'm not even talking about results. They outplayed big clubs like they are nothing, even against Liverpool at their peak.
You forgot the controversies about Abramovich and the fire sale of the club which surely had an impact on the team as well
Sure, I'm clueless for suggesting a manager who just got sacked with the joint worst point per game ratio after 20 games lacked experience at managing a top club.I didn't see your other post otherwise I would have replied. We're discussing Potter specifically here but my point extends to managers like Lampard or even Gerrard who were not ready for the moves they took but took them anyway because all they could think about was their CV and managing at the very top.
My point has been consistent, if it's not making sense it because you keep bringing Pep and Conte into the discussion for some reason like it proves something?
It's very simple, I don't know how it's difficult to understand. Take jobs that don't put you out of your depth.It's a complicated flow diagram tbf
I'll help you out a bit. If you manage a team like Brighton or West Ham or Brentford, you probably shouldn't take a top 4 job because you're not ready for it yet, unless you've made your current team a top 4 mainstay over the last few years. Apologies if that was confusing for some of you.Would be nice to get a list of specific teams that are okay as stepping stones
I didn't see your other post otherwise I would have replied. We're discussing Potter specifically here but my point extends to managers like Lampard or even Gerrard who were not ready for the moves they took but took them anyway because all they could think about was their CV and managing at the very top.
My point has been consistent, if it's not making sense it because you keep bringing Pep and Conte into the discussion for some reason like it proves something?
Ffs you literally asked name me one manager who was successful moving from midtable amd now you saying it's about Potter, Gerrard and whatever.
Take your time, go through the list and see their career path and then you will understand how wrong your point was. Going by your logic, all these managers shouldn't have taken those big jobs.
You're applying it to random leagues though where the step up isn't as difficult or the top team has such a grip on the league you'd have to be a moron to lose it. In those environments you can actually learn on the job, you can't in the PL where it's more competitive, we've seen that with most of our managers.
lesser pressure and spurs doesn't have much ambition.
Yeah totally, Nathan Jones was a great appointment, so was Moyes, and Ole, Lampard, Rodgers (Liverpool) and so on, the PL is littered with managers who stepped up beyond their experience and failed when they could have done things differently.It's not confusing, it's a dumb point
List of teams accepted as stepping stones:Would be nice to get a list of specific teams that are okay as stepping stones
1. Tottenham
2. Spurs
There's too small a sample size from this season to say. They'd only played six games, but when Potter left for Chelsea, they were actually sitting 4th, so they could already have been on their way to kicking on from last season.
There's no telling if they'd have kept that up and had much the same season as they've had if he'd have stayed, but their success this season has definitely been with the squad he built.
Bloody hell mate, if moving goalposts to make a point was a competition you would be in the final
Formally Arsenal, Tottenham, maybe Leicester? Soon to be Chelsea so there's always that, maybe they should rehire him and give him more time?
Funniest thing is that if they get Nagelsmann, I don't think he's gonna work out either...imagine 3 managerial changes within the space of 12 months, and neither of them is gonna work out. Probably wasn't necessary in the first place to sack Tuchel. The pressure on Boehly will be astronomical.
He always had a great relationship with his players. Problems only were with the higher ups.
Dortmund was a special case after the bomb attack on their bus. The management decided against Tuchel's and the teams will to play the match the next day and they got eliminated. That's when something broke between him and the board.
PSG was the new sporting director he didn't get along. After all Leonardo didn't outlast Tuchel for long and got replaced also.
Chelsea. Well it was Boehly. Enough said i believe.
This is a surprise. I was sure he will stay till the summer.
Well... the positive aspect for him is that he made a lot of money for a few months work!
Well... the positive aspect for him is that he made a lot of money for a few months work!
Yeah, I wouldn't touch the Chelsea job with a bargepole if I was Nagelsmann. The last thing you need after being (arguably) prematurely sacked is to rock up at Stamford Bridge. He'd basically be defining himself as AVB mk II unless he works absolute miracles there.
So not Arsenal as they are top of the league, Leicester, second from bottom, are a stepping stone between Brighton, who are sixth and the top 6?? and Chelsea who you say he needed a stepping stone before he managed.
So the list stands, only Spurs are acceptable.
Very few are in line for a £50m payout.
No, there are many great managers who moved from a club like Brighton or West Ham to better things. You probably can't find them due to all their success though.
If we're going to be short term about this and take things as this season is the only season thats ever mattered regarding club size, ambition and expectation then I've got nothing sensible left to say.
I'm not sure he would succeed either way. Obviously, managers have a lot of confidence in their own abilities (as they should), but I don't see him achieving much at Chelsea with so many of the world's very best managers already leading the other top PL teams.
Potter went from Brighton to Chelsea this season, should he have said no because he hadn't managed Spurs, Arsenal or the mighty Leicester?
There is no linear path for managers to follow. When Potter first went to Chelsea, the general consensus wasn't that he'd fail because he hadn't been at Spurs as a stepping stone, but that he might struggle because Boehly didn't know what the feck he was doing and Chelsea are a bit of a circus. It reflected badly on Potter's critical faculties because he knowingly signed up to it, but I don't remember his lack of experience at a stepping stone club being cited as a reason for him possibly failing.