Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job

crossy1686 said:
By taking your current club up to places it's never been and raising expectations or moving to a club that will give you more time and experience and managing more difficult expectations.
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The first one doesn't correspond to managing a top club and won't count as relevant experience. What are the examples for the second one where you are managing a club with title aspirations in the PL and would be kept in the job regardless of the number of games you lose?
 
Moby said:
The first one doesn't correspond to managing a top club and won't count as relevant experience. What are the examples for the second one where you are managing a club with title aspirations in the PL and would be kept in the job regardless of the number of games you lose?
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Managers sometimes take smaller teams into cup finals and surprisingly win, they generally get a move off the back of it to a bigger club, or like Pochettino, they manage to upset the league and finish in the top 4 on a regular basis.

And I never said the part in bold. I said where there is more expectation to win than at a club such as Brighton but there isn't an expectation to win the league. So that would be a top 6 side who want to be a top 4 side, for example.
 
crossy1686 said:
I have rules? Okay then...
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Yes, if you read your own posts.
  • Potter should have said no as he did not have the experience to manage at Chelsea (this doesn't count in any other league other than the premiership).
  • To progress correctly, he should have gone to a "stepping stone" club in between Brighton and Chelsea
  • The only club that works for that according to you is Spurs.
  • This doesn't count if he has already taken a small team beyond their limits or won cups (but taking a team in Sweden from div 4 into Europe and winning the main domestic knockout cup does not count)
  • Success at Brighton doesn't count as that was it was down to the chairman taking over at the same time (actually a decade earlier)
Your rules are quite clear.
 
The Boy said:
Yes, if you read your own posts.
  • Potter should have said no as he did not have the experience to manage at Chelsea (this doesn't count in any other league other than the premiership).
  • To progress correctly, he should have gone to a "stepping stone" club in between Brighton and Chelsea
  • The only club that works for that according to you is Spurs.
  • This doesn't count if he has already taken a small team beyond their limits or won cups (but taking a team in Sweden from div 4 into Europe and winning the main domestic knockout cup does not count)
  • Success at Brighton doesn't count as that was it was down to the chairman taking over at the same time (actually a decade earlier)
Your rules are quite clear.
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Sure then, if they're my rules for Potter then they're my rules for Potter.

Except, silly for me thinking the PL is not the same as Serie A. I can see now, it's clearly the same league.
He should have gained some more experience somewhere else, maybe even stayed at Brighton and kicked on with them if he could. Learned more under less pressure than Chelsea.
If we're talking about today, then yes, Spurs currently meet that criteria, it might be someone else within the next couple of seasons.
He did great with Östersund, hence the reason he got a move to England, no problems there. But if you're suggesting it's the same thing then I have nothing to say.
What success at Brighton exactly? What are we quantifying as success?
 
crossy1686 said:
And I never said the part in bold
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Here?

crossy1686 said:
He should have said no because he has no experience at managing at that level with the expectations of those clubs
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Which are "those" clubs which are similar to the expectations he had at Chelsea? Managing a top 6 getting into top 4 isn't the season expectations at Chelsea so how is he going to get experience of managing a club who wants to win the PL without managing a club that wants to win the PL?
 
Moby said:
Here?



Which are "those" clubs which are similar to the expectations he had at Chelsea? Managing a top 6 getting into top 4 isn't the season expectations at Chelsea so how is he going to get experience of managing a club who wants to win the PL without managing a club that wants to win the PL?
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The expectation isn't to win a league, it's to win as many games as possible. He's never been had that expectation before now.
 
crossy1686 said:
You don't sack a manager who might win you a CL and league double because he fell out with Mane.
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Was obviously more to it than that. Squad harmony is everything. Mourinho gets sacked time and time again. As does conte for falling out with people.
 
Real Name said:
What's the argument about here? Cant keep track.
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I said that managers like Potter (managers in England who speedrun their careers and try to get a top 4 job as fast as possible) should gain more experience at a top 6 team before moving to a top 4 team in order to better handle the expectation that those clubs in the top 4 have, from the board, to the players, to the fans.

Then people started saying stuff like "yeah but Conte! Pep! Fergie 40 years ago!" like it's all the same thing. Now the argument has got lost somewhere because new people keep coming in and jumping on one line of a long conversation.
 
crossy1686 said:
I said that managers like Potter (managers in England who speedrun their careers and try to get a top 4 job as fast as possible) should gain more experience at a top 6 team before moving to a top 4 team in order to better handle the expectation that those clubs in the top 4 have, from the board, to the players, to the fans.

Then people started saying stuff like "yeah but Conte! Pep! Fergie 40 years ago!" like it's all the same thing. Now the argument has got lost somewhere because new people keep coming in and jumping on one line of a long conversation.
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He did really good at Brighton, caught the eye of football world, hell he was mentioned a lot as our manager too and when Chelsea came calling he grabbed it.
Although I think it was a bad decision career wise, he's sort of damaged goods now.
 
crossy1686 said:
The expectation isn't to win a league, it's to win as many games as possible. He's never been had that expectation before now.
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Yeah which is why he took the job to understand and learn how to manage such expectations which is literally the only way to get the experience you have been talking about. He's not gonna learn that by managing a club with different expectations as to what you have at a top club.
 
crossy1686 said:
No, it's about managers who try and speed run their careers and end up managing top 4 within a few years of managing at the top level without having the experience. You could even say the Lampard one was worth the gamble, he's played at that level and knows what's expected but he didn't know how to handle it, same for his stint at Everton, he's never been in a relegation fight, what does he know about managing that situation?

Anyway, I'm done repeating myself.
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Do you think Potter's first job is Brighton? He had one of the longer career to reach the level he did.
 
roonster09 said:
Conte moved from Serie B club to Juventus, how is it not same? It's even bigger gap than Brighton - Chelsea :lol:
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Conte spent the bulk of his professional playing career at Juventus. He probably knew the club pretty well. It's not really comparable.
 
Does this mean that when Chelsea take whoever is next they will be paying for 4 managers? Lampard, Tuchel, Potter and then the new one? Could they still be paying for Sarri too? How long was his contract?
 
Moby said:
Yeah which is why he took the job to understand and learn how to manage such expectations which is literally the only way to get the experience you have been talking about. He's not gonna learn that by managing a club with different expectations as to what you have at a top club.
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Are you suggesting Potter should have been given time to learn how to manage the former Champions League holders because that's the only way he could?
 
Lyng said:
Conte is at Spurs now though. Surely there is timetravel involved....
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Jose did same thing too. They know they should have Spurs in their CV.


The Boy said:
The weird thing is that Potter actually had far more experience and success than Lampard, the two are not comparable. Lots of people seem to think Potter just appeared out of thin air at Brighton and forget he took a team from div 4 to div 1 and into Europe in Sweden and won a cup. He has a great track record.

That it didn't work out at Chelsea is far more to do with the ownership and an appalling run of injuries than his lack of experience at Tottenham!
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Exactly, it's not like Potter was unknown either. When he was at Swansea there was lot of discussion about him. His track record was discussed a lot.

It's weird that people act as if he is speed tracking his career when he had possibly the longest journey to reach this level.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Conte spent the bulk of his professional playing career at Juventus. He probably knew the club pretty well. It's not really comparable.
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And that helped his managerial career by?

So B team, ex player, wonder what all will pop up now.
 
crossy1686 said:
Careful now, from what I've been told it's exactly the same thing. Totally the same as Potter's situation and totally the same kind of league with zero monopoly.
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Seriously how clueless one can be :lol:

Go and check Juventus position before Conte took over.
 
whitbyviking said:
Does this mean that when Chelsea take whoever is next they will be paying for 4 managers? Lampard, Tuchel, Potter and then the new one? Could they still be paying for Sarri too? How long was his contract?
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I think when Lampard took the Everton job, Chelsea no longer needed to pay him the wages. Unless is different on the UK.
 
roonster09 said:
And that helped his managerial career by?

So B team, ex player, wonder what all will pop up now.
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By having experience and first-hand knowledge of the type of institution he was supposed to be managing. The same institution, even.
 
Should never have got the job in the first place, let's be honest.
 
The Boy said:
Yes, if you read your own posts.
  • Potter should have said no as he did not have the experience to manage at Chelsea (this doesn't count in any other league other than the premiership).
  • To progress correctly, he should have gone to a "stepping stone" club in between Brighton and Chelsea
  • The only club that works for that according to you is Spurs.
  • This doesn't count if he has already taken a small team beyond their limits or won cups (but taking a team in Sweden from div 4 into Europe and winning the main domestic knockout cup does not count)
  • Success at Brighton doesn't count as that was it was down to the chairman taking over at the same time (actually a decade earlier)
Your rules are quite clear.
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There are few more. Managing club's B team or reserve team means a lot. Being ex player means you are qualified for the job.
 
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