Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job

adexkola said:
Back to Potter:

Millions of pounds richer. Will walk back into any club below the top 6. With a repeat of his heroics in Brighton, or simply a good job, he'll get another shot eventually.
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I agree with you about Tuchel. They never really looked great in the league (apart from a tight defence early on) and the football wasn’t anything to write home about. Without the results and possible personality clashes and other issues, they were justified in letting him go.

Potter though, I don’t agree. He will be absolutely gutted. This was the big shot. It is hard to think of other coaches who messed up so badly in their first stint at a top side and made it back to the top table. He will be devastated, the money was his anyway.

With Potter, there will be renewed analysis of the issues he had at Brighton rather than just their strengths. They are doing better under a new coach after selling players. His goalscoring issues continued with new players at a new club. He will be under the microscope now.

If he goes to Leicester, for example, and there really is no money, they don’t score goals and he doesn’t get backed from the board. What happens then?

His next job is absolutely crucial and I would be wary at Tottenham and at Leicester, that the same issues with goalscoring and the perceived lack of authority at Chelsea, could rear their heads again.

Both those sides need to get their next appointments spot on, are they going to risk it with Potter after that performance?

I think Palace will be the team that want him and I think that’s a better bet for him. Lower expectations, some exciting young players, and the chance to build his reputation without the pressure of instant results.
 
No wonder managers would queue up for the Chelsea job as it is a win win situation.
Either the manager is successful or he gets sacked very quickly with an absolute monster pay day.
 
crossy1686 said:
Name one manager who went from managing a mid table/bottom half club, to managing a top 4 side that didn't end in disaster. There's a very obvious step in between there.
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Conte, Pep, Zidane, Poch, Luis Enrique and I'm sure there are plenty.

Add Arteta too.

And what's the level between top 4 and midtable, now that there are 7 strong teams in PL.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Pep and Enrique both came through barca. Poch took spurs to top 4, they were not a midtable.
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Pep was Barca Manager, Luis Enrique managed Celta and Roma before Barca job, Poch moved from Southampton to Spurs and did great job.

They are the proper examples for what poster was asking. Manager who never had highest level experience but took over top 4 club and did great job.
 
roonster09 said:
Pep was Barca Manager, Luis Enrique managed Celta and Roma before Barca job, Poch moved from Southampton to Spurs and did great job.

They are the proper examples for what poster was asking. Manager who never had highest level experience but took over top 4 club and did great job.
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Enrique coached Barca reserves just like Pep. I know what you meant but I also think those experiences were unique, but maybe that's just me.

Poch is how I think a managers path should go. Spurs is a top 6/8 club and he overachieved with them, particularly in Europe. I think that poster meant Potter moved just a bit too soon, and he doesn't have the gravitas or the prestige of some ex players.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Enrique coached Barca reserves just like Pep. I know what you meant but I also think those experiences were unique, but maybe that's just me.

Poch is how I think a managers path should go. Spurs is a top 6/8 club and he overachieved with them, particularly in Europe. I think that poster meant Potter moved just a bit too soon, and he doesn't have the gravitas or the prestige of some ex players.
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Potter actually followed the path obsessed by caf geniuses, started from bottom and was successful at every level. Worked his way up and did excellent job at Brighton. Now caf geniuses or let's say career counsellors added one more step, like manage a club between top 4 and midtable.

Not all managerial appointment works out, it didn't work out for Potter and working exceptionally well for Arteta. People should calm down with their "My guide for managerial path for greatness" thing. There is no such thing.
 
adexkola said:


If he said this, Jesus :lol:

Did this rile fans up? I'm still recovering from the beatdown I received on here a few weeks ago...
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Sounds like something a lot of people on here would say to defend / attack one of our own players...
 
roonster09 said:
Did what? Go and check their career path.
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They started managing the clubs youth teams and was promoted within to manage the first team for the most part. That's a story as old as time, that's how most managers start out.

Pochettino went to Tottenham from Southampton, instead of straight to PSG.
Enrique went to Roma before Barcelona.
Conte went to Atlanta before Juventus.

Arteta was incredibly lucky not to be fired at least twice in his Arsenal stint but he's managed to turn it around after proving he's a good coach at least.

Potter hasn't done any of that, in fact, he was booed off by his own (spoiled) fans at Brighton because they struggled for goals, something he was never able to address. Every week there was talk of "he's taken Brighton as far as he can", "they need a quality forward to go to the next level but they can't afford one", and yet now they've got a decent manager in (and lost some of their best players) they're playing even better and scoring for fun because he knows how to break a team down, something Potter couldn't get right at Chelsea either, with better players.
 
crossy1686 said:
They started managing the clubs youth teams and was promoted within to manage the first team for the most part. That's a story as old as time, that's how most managers start out.

Pochettino went to Tottenham from Southampton, instead of straight to PSG.
Enrique went to Roma before Barcelona.
Conte went to Atlanta before Juventus.

Arteta was incredibly lucky not to be fired at least twice in his Arsenal stint but he's managed to turn it around after proving he's a good coach at least.

Potter hasn't done any of that, in fact, he was booed off by his own (spoiled) fans at Brighton because they struggled for goals, something he was never able to address. Every week there was talk of "he's taken Brighton as far as he can", "they need a quality forward to go to the next level but they can't afford one", and yet now they've got a decent manager in (and lost some of their best players) they're playing even better and scoring for fun because he knows how to break a team down, something Potter couldn't get right at Chelsea either, with better players.
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So going from b team to first team is fine but moving from midtable to top 4 team is not :lol:

Luis Enrique, Conte didn't move from B team to senior team, also what exactly is top 4 club. If you accept Arteta example then Spurs were at similar level or better when Poch took over.

Atalanta were not top 4 club or top 6 club when Conte was there, he was there for 4 months and the club was midtable, lower level team.

Conte moved to Juve from Serie B club.

Luis Enrique moved to Barca from Celta Vigo, the gap between Celta and Barca is much more and multiple times higher than Brighton and Chelsea.

None of th se managers followed the career path that you mentioned, not even one and not even close.
 
roonster09 said:
So going from b team to first team is fine but moving from midtable to top 4 team is not :lol:

Luis Enrique, Conte didn't move from B team to senior team, also what exactly is top 4 club. If you accept Arteta example then Spurs were at similar level or better when Poch took over.

Atalanta were not top 4 club or top 6 club when Conte was there, he was there for 4 months and the club was midtable, lower level team.

Conte moved to Juve from Serie B club.

Luis Enrique moved to Barca from Celta Vigo, the gap between Celta and Barca is much more and multiple times higher than Brighton and Chelsea.

None of th se managers followed the career path that you mentioned, not even one and not even close.
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You're right, Potter was more than ready for this position, Brighton and Chelsea are practically the same club anyway, in fact he was doing a brilliant job and has been unfairly sacked. His experience was beyond his years, the nouse, the way he handled the press, and had his team crafting chance after chance were envious to all the league. His whole persona screamed "I'm a winner, gaze upon my magnificent beard and weep", coupled with a charisma that would have made Jose blush. The way he complemented every team that battered Chelsea was pure mind games also, only a true alpha would have the balls to say "they were better than us" or "I thought it was a positive performance" after losing 2-0 at home without creating a shot on target.

I just can't see where it all went wrong for him personally. Someone who never put a foot wrong, with more than enough experience to manage at this top, top level. It's a sad day when seasoned professionals, with multiple trophies and deep cup runs are turfed out of jobs. The good news for Potter is that Real Madrid, Barcelona, City and Liverpool have all been waiting in the wings for this opportunity, I'm expecting mass firings this week while teams scramble to sign him up. I bet Tuchel is bricking it also, just his luck to be replaced twice by Potter in one season.

I'll leave you with a quote: "You think it's expensive to hire a professional? Wait until you hire an amatuer..."
 
Be scary if they get nagelsmann. That guy will make them challenge next season with the squad they’ve got.
 
Brighton perspective here. Enormous amount of schadenfreude from most, truthfully myself included.

Potter leaving was understandable from his perspective. A huge step up in status, massive salary, chance to work with some genuinely elite players and potentially win trophies. Most Brighton fans, understanding Potter’s limitations, found the winning trophies aspect very unlikely and knew Chelsea fans and board would have to be very patient with Potter.

Albion fans at the time took it very badly for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the timing was a nightmare for us a handful of games into the season - and just when things were finally starting to click. Potter had some very rough spells with us where we simply couldn’t score/win and the supporters (in the main) remained patient. The moment he finally achieved a level of consistent good results to match performances, he was off like a shot to the first big club to show interest.

Secondly, he took pretty much the entire coaching staff with him. Having a big entourage/team is normal, but it’s less normal to take key staff who were here long before the manager joined. Bruno, for example, is a club legend, former captain, with a literal mural of his likeness in the heart of town. Ben Roberts, considered in the industry as one of the most talented goalkeeping coaches in the business was poached too. These weren’t Potter’s guys, it left a very bad taste.

Along with Chelsea’s poaching of Paul Winstanley (our transfer guru), the signing of Cucurella (who refused to play or train unless he was sold) it has made Brighton fans certainly not big admirers of Chelsea’s model. The model seeming to be “What would Brighton do?”.

Thirdly, Potter made some snarky comments and was rather thin skinned during his time here. When not sucking through his teeth, bigging up every single opposition team to parodic levels or saying “it is what it is”, he was known to make little barbed comments to/about the fans. For example, he infamously said that Brighton fans “need a history lesson”. This was in response to a 0-0 draw at home to Leeds, where some fans showed frustration at failing to score. Incidentally, it was our worst going scoring and points run in our top flight history, so I suspect it was Graham who didn’t know his history on this occasion. A couple more minor slights while being Chelsea manager weren’t missed by Brighton fans either.

The strangest thing about this is that is has happened identically to how most fans predicted. He was never going to get three years just to reach the level the club was already at, but doing his way. This was one of the most predictable managerial failures in PL history. Wrong manager for the wrong club at the wrong time.
 
JPRouve said:
Since last summer I have been baffled by two things. The purchases don't seem to make any sense and why so many players accepted to join Chelsea when it made no Football sense. It's not entirely linked to Potter because he wasn't around for the majority of it but I think that it played a big role in his demise.
It think that any manager would have struggled unless they had the courage to make tough decisions and isolate a number of players in favor of a smaller and more sensible group.
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For me it's been about the profile of players they've stocked. Too many of them are so similar
 
crossy1686 said:
You're right, Potter was more than ready for this position, Brighton and Chelsea are practically the same club anyway, in fact he was doing a brilliant job and has been unfairly sacked. His experience was beyond his years, the nouse, the way he handled the press, and had his team crafting chance after chance were envious to all the league. His whole persona screamed "I'm a winner, gaze upon my magnificent beard and weep", coupled with a charisma that would have made Jose blush. The way he complemented every team that battered Chelsea was pure mind games also, only a true alpha would have the balls to say "they were better than us" or "I thought it was a positive performance" after losing 2-0 at home without creating a shot on target.

I just can't see where it all went wrong for him personally. Someone who never put a foot wrong, with more than enough experience to manage at this top, top level. It's a sad day when seasoned professionals, with multiple trophies and deep cup runs are turfed out of jobs. The good news for Potter is that Real Madrid, Barcelona, City and Liverpool have all been waiting in the wings for this opportunity, I'm expecting mass firings this week while teams scramble to sign him up. I bet Tuchel is bricking it also, just his luck to be replaced twice by Potter in one season.

I'll leave you with a quote: "You think it's expensive to hire a professional? Wait until you hire an amatuer..."
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Instead of so much effort you could have just accepted that you made a dumb point and dig deeper hole with every post.
 
roonster09 said:
Instead of so much effort you could have just accepted that you made a dumb point and dig deeper hole with every post.
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I enjoyed the effort, woke up with a mad fever and have nothing better to do at 5am. I thought we were just posting bollocks for a bit so I leaned into it fully.

My point stands, he wasn't experienced enough for this role and that's all it comes down to really. There was no rush to take this position, it was a bad career move and one he wasn't ready for.
 
crossy1686 said:
I enjoyed the effort, woke up with a mad fever and have nothing better to do at 5am. I thought we were just posting bollocks for a bit so I leaned into it fully.

My point stands, he wasn't experienced enough for this role and that's all it comes down to really. There was no rush to take this position, it was a bad career move and one he wasn't ready for.
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Maybe you thought like that while posting but I wasn't. Now it answers why your posts were like that.

Good to know at least there is a genuine reasons for you "posting bollocks"

On the other point, it didn't work out. Not sure if more years at Brighton would have made him ready. Some managers take bigger roles better than other, few managers hit the ground running and few takes bit of time. All I'm saying is " managers should follow xyz career path" is just nonsense.
 
roonster09 said:
Maybe you thought like that while posting but I wasn't. Now it answers why your posts were like that.

Good to know at least there is a genuine reasons for you "posting bollocks"

On the other point, it didn't work out. Not sure if more years at Brighton would have made him ready. Some managers take bigger roles better than other, few managers hit the ground running and few takes bit of time. All I'm saying is " managers should follow xyz career path" is just nonsense.
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And I never said that, I said Potter specifically wasn't ready for this role and he should have taken a job at Tottenham or similar first before moving into a role at a team like Chelsea.

I've seen nothing from him at Brighton to suggest he was ready for this kind of managerial position. More years there wouldn't have helped him because he didn't know how to kick on from where they were, he needed to go somewhere with slightly more expectation so he could learn what it's like to be in a semi expectant environment. Not go from Brighton beach to Hell's kitchen overnight.

Anyway, I reckon he'll land on his feet at Spurs now, his spiritual home, unless they go for Pochettino...
 
crossy1686 said:
You mean like he did at Bayern? I wouldn't worry about him one bit.
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He wasn’t sacked for his performances at Bayern. Was unbeaten in CL and 1 point behind top. He was sacked because something obviously happened behind the scenes. Had a bust up with Mane I heard.
 
crossy1686 said:
I enjoyed the effort, woke up with a mad fever and have nothing better to do at 5am. I thought we were just posting bollocks for a bit so I leaned into it fully.

My point stands, he wasn't experienced enough for this role and that's all it comes down to really. There was no rush to take this position, it was a bad career move and one he wasn't ready for.
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I dont think experience has anything to do with it. He was a bad fit from the start. Its clear he thrived at Brighton because it was a club tailored to his style. I have the same feeling about Thomas Frank. I think he is a brilliant manager for that kind of setup, but not so sure he would work in a club where instant results without much longterm vision is required.
Potter never seemed like the type of character that is needed in the job that is Chelsea.
 
DJ_21 said:
He wasn’t sacked for his performances at Bayern. Was unbeaten in CL and 1 point behind top. He was sacked because something obviously happened behind the scenes. Had a bust up with Mane I heard.
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You don't sack a manager who might win you a CL and league double because he fell out with Mane.
 
Lyng said:
I dont think experience has anything to do with it. He was a bad fit from the start. Its clear he thrived at Brighton because it was a club tailored to his style. I have the same feeling about Thomas Frank. I think he is a brilliant manager for that kind of setup, but not so sure he would work in a club where instant results without much longterm vision is required.
Potter never seemed like the type of character that is needed in the job that is Chelsea.
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He didn't thrive at Brighton, Brighton are thriving without him! They have a very clear structure there, for sure, but again, you can't expect to know how to handle the levels of expectations they have at Chelsea from just managing Brighton to mid table, his press conferences pretty much confirm that he was out of his depth.
 
crossy1686 said:
You don't sack a manager who might win you a CL and league double because he fell out with Mane.
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True, but you might sack him if he the board dont like him.
They sacked Hansi Flick because he fell out with Salihamidzic
 
crossy1686 said:
You don't sack a manager who might win you a CL and league double because he fell out with Mane.
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And we obviously didn’t. We weren’t satisfied with the performances in the league and cup. Doesn’t mean we had to fire him, but we had enough reason to. He had a worse ppg record in the league than Kovac, for example.
 
Lyng said:
True, but you might sack him if he the board dont like him.
They sacked Hansi Flick because he fell out with Salihamidzic
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There was obviously other reasons, one stated was that he went skiing while the rest of the lads who didn't go to international duty were training. I think it's just another case of being totally unaware of the expectations of managing an elite club, if you act small time, you get fired, maybe he could get away with that shit at Leipzig but Bayern expect more from their managers.
 
crossy1686 said:
He didn't thrive at Brighton, Brighton are thriving without him! They have a very clear structure there, for sure, but again, you can't expect to know how to handle the levels of expectations they have at Chelsea from just managing Brighton to mid table, his press conferences pretty much confirm that he was out of his depth.
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He did well at Brighton. But yes De Zerbi is better. Has nothing to do with experience. Potter has a level. No amount of years is going to change that. Look at Moyes.
 
Lyng said:
True, but you might sack him if he the board dont like him.
They sacked Hansi Flick because he fell out with Salihamidzic
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Flick wasn’t sacked. He refused to fulfill his contract because he wanted the job at the DFB. After he declared his desire to leave, we negotiated a termination of the contract with him.
 
Lyng said:
He did well at Brighton. But yes De Zerbi is better. Has nothing to do with experience. Potter has a level. No amount of years is going to change that. Look at Moyes.
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So you're suggesting that experience doesn't make you a better manager? There's some innate "talent" or "ceiling" to one's ability to handle situations and expectations?

Let me ask you this, do you think Potter would have done better at Chelsea if he had spent some years building a side at a team like Tottenham, getting them into the CL on a regular basis?
 
crossy1686 said:
There was obviously other reasons, one stated was that he went skiing while the rest of the lads who didn't go to international duty were training. I think it's just another case of being totally unaware of the expectations of managing an elite club, if you act small time, you get fired, maybe he could get away with that shit at Leipzig but Bayern expect more from their managers.
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But again, that has nothing to do with experience. Its about about your managerial skills and whether your character fits the club or not. I think the best example is Carlo Ancelotti. He does well in clubs with big players but was doing nothing at Everton.
 
crossy1686 said:
So you're suggesting that experience doesn't make you a better manager? There's some innate "talent" or "ceiling" to one's ability to handle situations and expectations?

Let me ask you this, do you think Potter would have done better at Chelsea if he had spent some years building a side at a team like Tottenham, getting them into the CL on a regular basis?
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Of course it does. But there is absolutely a ceiling to managers. I am saying that regardless of how many years he would manager he would not be a good fit for Chelsea.
 
HTG said:
Flick wasn’t sacked. He refused to fulfill his contract because he wanted the job at the DFB. After he declared his desire to leave, we negotiated a termination of the contract with him.
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True he wasnt exactly sacked but its pretty clear the main reason he left was because of his falling out with Salihamidzic.
 
roonster09 said:
.All I'm saying is " managers should follow xyz career path" is just nonsense.
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crossy1686 said:
And I never said that, I said Potter specifically wasn't ready for this role and he should have taken a job at Tottenham or similar first before moving into a role at a team like Chelsea.
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Are you sure you didn't say that?

crossy1686 said:
Because managing in Sweden and managing Chelsea are different beasts. How are you supposed to handle the expectation of Chelsea when you've never done anything remotely near that? It's the same for other managers, we see it every season.
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crossy1686 said:
Name one manager who went from managing a mid table/bottom half club, to managing a top 4 side that didn't end in disaster. There's a very obvious step in between there.
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Lyng said:
But again, that has nothing to do with experience. Its about about your managerial skills and whether your character fits the club or not. I think the best example is Carlo Ancelotti. He does well in clubs with big players but was doing nothing at Everton.
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You name dropped the most experienced manager in the game to prove a point that experience doesn't matter?

Why do you think he is able to adapt to most clubs he goes to? Because he does that cool thing with his eyebrows? Come on.
 
crossy1686 said:
You name dropped the most experienced manager in the game to prove a point that experience doesn't matter?

Why do you think he is able to adapt to most clubs he goes to? Because he does that cool thing with his eyebrows? Come on.
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Why didnt he work out at Everton?
 
Lyng said:
Of course it does. But there is absolutely a ceiling to managers. I am saying that regardless of how many years he would manager he would not be a good fit for Chelsea.
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There's a ceiling to managers who don't learn from their mistakes, the same for everyone.
 
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