Graeme Sourness | Retires from “punditry”

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Any good pundit would have researched whether Kean had a buy back clause or not
Any good pundit would have gone into detail about the 'off the field' activities, and specified what activities

Instead it is lazy generalizations with no content or evidence, with zero attempt at research

 

[Rozay]

‘Racism’ is such a blunt term that is often used in life where it doesn’t properly fit. I don’t think Souness is ‘racist’ in that he has a hatred of black people. I DO think he’s from a school and era of many racial generalisations, which he probably reverts to subconsciously.

I think his assumptions of Moise Kean come from somewhere, somewhere he doesn’t necessarily or think is racist. I’m sure we all have certain racial stereotypes tbh, whatever our backgrounds.

 

[M Bison]

I don’t see how his comments could be construed as racist though? Definitely daft and baseless but don’t think he’s generalising or being racist unless there’s another clip I haven’t seen.

 

[saivet]

I don’t see how his comments could be construed as racist though? Definitely daft and baseless but don’t think he’s generalising or being racist unless there’s another clip I haven’t seen.

If you see enough of Souness you will see there is a trend with him.

 

[mav_9me]

‘Racism’ is such a blunt term that is often used in life where it doesn’t properly fit. I don’t think Souness is ‘racist’ in that he has a hatred of black people. I DO think he’s from a school and era of many racial generalisations, which he probably reverts to subconsciously.

I think his assumptions of Moise Kean come from somewhere, somewhere he doesn’t necessarily or think is racist. I’m sure we all have certain racial stereotypes tbh, whatever our backgrounds.

But racism is not just that. All these subconscious biases are also racism. That's what we are realizing more and have to as a society try to get better at.

BTW I agree we all have our stereotypes /biased but that's what we have to do, recognize and try to rise above them. Even more so when you have a voice and an audience which is where Sourness has consistently failed.

 

[BobbyManc]

I don’t see how his comments could be construed as racist though? Definitely daft and baseless but don’t think he’s generalising or being racist unless there’s another clip I haven’t seen.

His comments about Kean, in isolation, are not racist. His comments about Pogba, in isolation, are not racist. His decision to compare Kean to Adebayor, in isolation, is not racist. When you take all his comments together, and compare it with his attitude towards other players, a picture starts to emerge which it would be reasonable to assume that, conscious or otherwise, Souness has a bias against players of colour. His slip of the tongue when he said Pogba played for Africa at the World Cup exposed his warped mind-set. Interpreting this generously, I'd say that Souness is probably not racist in the sense that he's some clown who would ever espouse white supremacy or the inferiority of other races, but he has come from an era where stereotypes and prejudices were commonplace (and still are, although less prevalent/more widely rejected) and he's imbibed some of them, which remain embedded in his thought process to this day. I think that is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make based on his comments.

 

[kouroux]

His comments about Kean, in isolation, are not racist. His comments about Pogba, in isolation, are not racist. His decision to compare Kean to Adebayor, in isolation, is not racist. When you take all his comments together, and compare it with his attitude towards other players, a picture starts to emerge which it would be reasonable to assume that, conscious or otherwise, Souness has a bias against players of colour. His slip of the tongue when he said Pogba played for Africa at the World Cup exposed his warped mind-set. Interpreting this generously, I'd say that Souness is probably not racist in the sense that he's some clown who would ever espouse white supremacy or the inferiority of other races, but he has come from an era where stereotypes and prejudices were commonplace (and still are, although less prevalent/more widely rejected) and he's imbibed some of them, which remain embedded in his thought process to this day. I think that is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make based on his comments.

+100 There is something very suspect with Souness. At the very least he is very ill informed regarding Keane and at worst, well...

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Any good pundit would have researched whether Kean had a buy back clause or not
Any good pundit would have gone into detail about the 'off the field' activities, and specified what activities

Instead it is lazy generalizations with no content or evidence, with zero attempt at research

You are asking too much from Souness! Racism and research don't mix

 

[Stacks]

His comments about Kean, in isolation, are not racist. His comments about Pogba, in isolation, are not racist. His decision to compare Kean to Adebayor, in isolation, is not racist. When you take all his comments together, and compare it with his attitude towards other players, a picture starts to emerge which it would be reasonable to assume that, conscious or otherwise, Souness has a bias against players of colour. His slip of the tongue when he said Pogba played for Africa at the World Cup exposed his warped mind-set. Interpreting this generously, I'd say that Souness is probably not racist in the sense that he's some clown who would ever espouse white supremacy or the inferiority of other races, but he has come from an era where stereotypes and prejudices were commonplace (and still are, although less prevalent/more widely rejected) and he's imbibed some of them, which remain embedded in his thought process to this day. I think that is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make based on his comments.

He has commented on dozens if not hundreds black players in his time. A handful is enough to label someone racist

 

[Inigo Montoya]

His comments about Kean, in isolation, are not racist. His comments about Pogba, in isolation, are not racist. His decision to compare Kean to Adebayor, in isolation, is not racist. When you take all his comments together, and compare it with his attitude towards other players, a picture starts to emerge which it would be reasonable to assume that, conscious or otherwise, Souness has a bias against players of colour. His slip of the tongue when he said Pogba played for Africa at the World Cup exposed his warped mind-set. Interpreting this generously, I'd say that Souness is probably not racist in the sense that he's some clown who would ever espouse white supremacy or the inferiority of other races, but he has come from an era where stereotypes and prejudices were commonplace (and still are, although less prevalent/more widely rejected) and he's imbibed some of them, which remain embedded in his thought process to this day. I think that is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make based on his comments.

The second last sentence probably sums up his mindset.

About time they employed someone who looked past colour. I mean comparing Kean to Adebayor is lazy and smacks of someone searching for a comparison based on race not ability.It belongs in the 70s and 80s. I’m sure Big Ron would love it.

 

[BobbyManc]

He has commented on dozens if not hundreds black players in his time. A handful is enough to label someone racist

Yes, correct.

 

[thegregster]

Jesus Christ, from the reactions in here you'd swear he had a KKK costume on. There was nothing racist about that video. We've all been wondering why the hell Juve sold Kean too.

I don't follow Seria A and I know that 1) he had only a year left and 2) his agent is Raiola.

A quick Google search would have saved Souness from looking a bit silly.

 

[Stacks]

Yes, correct.

That's stupid. He hasn't said anything actually of any racist substance but because a handful of black players (out of countless he has run commentary on) he has talked about in ways you don't agree with makes him racist. What a world we live in. You lot love to throw around that word. I'm going to scream racism next time any one criticises me and a few of my mates because we are mostly Black and Asian, if that's all it takes

 

[BobbyManc]

That's stupid. He hasn't said anything actually of any racist substance but because a handful of black players (out of countless he has run commentary on) he has talked about in ways you don't agree with makes him racist. What a world we live in. You lot love to throw around that word. I'm going to scream racism next time any one criticises me and a few of my mates because we are mostly Black and Asian, if that's all it takes

It's stupid to label someone a racist unless they are racist in every single interaction or conversation they have involving a person of colour? ok then. No one is claiming that Souness is running around throwing the n-word about and banging on about the superiority of the Aryan race. What we are saying, and what we believe the evidence is clear to see, is that Souness's treatment towards some players of colour has been out of order and appears guilty of indulging in some archaic and offensive stereotypes.

He knows nothing about Kean, but decided to spout nonsense about his attitude and suggest that there was something amiss about him. Out of all the players he could have compared him to, he chose Adebayor. Funnily enough, when he was asked about Eriksen not playing at Spurs, he stated that he did not know the player and assumed that there were no problems with his attitude. He has an undeniable vendetta against Pogba and made a comment about him representing Africa at the World Cup. He got taken off air on Sky once for saying Salah was like Dalglish with a suntan. Racism is insidious and you're naive to think that it most commonly occurs in brazen acts such as using the n-word or outright referring to someone's skin colour. If you can't see any problem with the way Souness talks and acts at times, then I'd suggest you look a little closer and educate yourself.

 

[Stacks]

It's stupid to label someone a racist unless they are racist in every single interaction or conversation they have involving a person of colour? ok then. No one is claiming that Souness is running around throwing the n-word about and banging on about the superiority of the Aryan race. What we are saying, and what we believe the evidence is clear to see, is that Souness's treatment towards some players of colour has been out of order and appears guilty of indulging in some archaic and offensive stereotypes.

He knows nothing about Kean, but decided to spout nonsense about his attitude and suggest that there was something amiss about him. Out of all the players he could have compared him to, he chose Adebayor. Funnily enough, when he was asked about Eriksen not playing at Spurs, he stated that he did not know the player and assumed that there were no problems with his attitude. He has an undeniable vendetta against Pogba and made a comment about him representing Africa at the World Cup. He got taken off air on Sky once for saying Salah was like Dalglish with a suntan. Racism is insidious and you're naive to think that it most commonly occurs in brazen acts such as using the n-word or outright referring to someone's skin colour. If you can't see any problem with the way Souness talks and acts at times, then I'd suggest you look a little closer and educate yourself.

So if you think something negative about a black person or make a presupposition that meets a stereotype once or twice, that's enough to be a racist. What's Eriksen got to do with this? There could be a number if reasons why he thinks Eriksen would Not kick up a fuss outside of his race but you jump straight to racism. Mountain out of a molehill. Generation outrage at its fullest

 

[M Bison]

It's stupid to label someone a racist unless they are racist in every single interaction or conversation they have involving a person of colour? ok then. No one is claiming that Souness is running around throwing the n-word about and banging on about the superiority of the Aryan race. What we are saying, and what we believe the evidence is clear to see, is that Souness's treatment towards some players of colour has been out of order and appears guilty of indulging in some archaic and offensive stereotypes.

He knows nothing about Kean, but decided to spout nonsense about his attitude and suggest that there was something amiss about him. Out of all the players he could have compared him to, he chose Adebayor. Funnily enough, when he was asked about Eriksen not playing at Spurs, he stated that he did not know the player and assumed that there were no problems with his attitude. He has an undeniable vendetta against Pogba and made a comment about him representing Africa at the World Cup. He got taken off air on Sky once for saying Salah was like Dalglish with a suntan. Racism is insidious and you're naive to think that it most commonly occurs in brazen acts such as using the n-word or outright referring to someone's skin colour. If you can't see any problem with the way Souness talks and acts at times, then I'd suggest you look a little closer and educate yourself.

I think you may be exaggerating just a touch with that

 

[Mogget]

So if you think something negative about a black person or make a presupposition that meets a stereotype once or twice, that's enough to be a racist. What's Eriksen got to do with this? There could be a number if reasons why he thinks Eriksen would Not kick up a fuss outside of his race but you jump straight to racism. Mountain out of a molehill. Generation outrage at its fullest

I know you meant this to be an insult but you know what? I'd rather live in a generation where people are offended easily and you actually have to think about the words you use than a generation where it was ok to put up signs saying "no blacks" or where it was ok for people to go around paki bashing.

 

[Bestietom]

Souness is a dick head and Likes to hear himself more than anyone.

 

[Stacks]

I know you meant this to be an insult but you know what? I'd rather live in a generation where people are offended easily and you actually have to think about the words you use than a generation where it was ok to put up signs saying "no blacks" or where it was ok for people to go around paki bashing.

I would not like to live in a time where people racially abuse each other either. No one would. But let's not go overboard the other way

 

[SteveJ]

I know you meant this to be an insult but you know what? I'd rather live in a generation where people are offended easily and you actually have to think about the words you use than a generation where it was ok to put up signs saying "no blacks" or where it was ok for people to go around paki bashing.

*applauds*

 

[Adisa]

To some people, you aren't racist until you call someone the n word. @BobbyManc gave a solid explanation why his comments were dodgy. He hasn't got the slightest clue about Kean's situation then made a nonsensical deduction based on stereotype.

 

[Sylar]

Is it possible to not be racist but still have prejudiced thoughts regarding stereotypes?

Reason I ask, is because Suarez for example. I dont think hes racist despite the one interaction with Evra (but again, I dont know him, so maybe he is?)
Its hard to judge somebody without knowing them however assumptions can be made by what you see when patterns emerge.

Theres nothing to suggest Kean has troubles off the field>
However there is something to suggest Souness likes to make comments based on stereotypes based on a gather of information as BobbyManc suggested.

 

[SteveJ]

I think the main problem is that British pundits exist in a kind of echo chamber, and their discontent with everything from missing out on the PL gravy train to the 'follies' of younger generations of players only deepens their cynicism. They reinforce each other's views.

 

[dmode]

I am black and I think that we as black should no longer be receptive to that stuff... everyone's equal. Move on.

People do this intentionally to strike a message for their own reason or whatever... why should we be receptive to that kind of stupidity?

If you think you are stupid enough to be concerned, that's your problem.

 

[roonster09]

This is just pathetic. For a min lets forget theignorance, the logic he uses is downright stupid. Because Juventus sold him means alarm bell is going off in his head. We have few who use same logic, just because club wants to sign a player means he must be good and fans who watched him for years must be wrong. Likewise club wants to sell players means he isn't good enough, no matter what's the reason they are selling him.

 

[Gomes]

Don't remember anyone being called racist last year when people suggested that Bayern would not sell Boateng if there wasn't something wrong with him. Not the only example I can think of either.

 

[Pexbo]

Don't remember anyone being called racist last year when people suggested that Bayern would not sell Boateng if there wasn't something wrong with him. Not the only example I can think of either.

That’s not even comparable to the point of making you look desperate to whub on behalf of Souness.

Boateng was suspected to have an underlying injury issue that Bayern knew about. The suspicion was on Bayern, not Boateng.

 

[OL29]

https://www.joe.co.uk/amp/sport/moise-kean-souness-239142

Of course Souness would be rightly outraged rif anyone was to suggest that race played even an unknowing part in his comments about Kean. He'd refute such accusations as grossly unfair slurs upon his person. And yet it is absolutely fine for him to damage the reputation of a promising teenager for no apparent reason? Something is not quite right.

 

[Adcuth]

This is just pathetic. For a min lets forget theignorance, the logic he uses is downright stupid. Because Juventus sold him means alarm bell is going off in his head.

This. Chelsea sold De Bruyne at a young age. Did Souness also believe this about him?

 

[roonster09]

This. Chelsea sold De Bruyne at a young age. Did Souness also believe this about him?

Souness was too thick to even know a player called KdB was playing for Chelsea.

 

[BobbyManc]

So if you think something negative about a black person or make a presupposition that meets a stereotype once or twice, that's enough to be a racist. What's Eriksen got to do with this? There could be a number if reasons why he thinks Eriksen would Not kick up a fuss outside of his race but you jump straight to racism. Mountain out of a molehill. Generation outrage at its fullest

Haha, forgive me and others for having the temerity to be aggrieved at a perceived racial bias in a football pundit. Next time I believe someone to be guilty of indulging in racial stereotypes, I'll keep my mouth shut lest I be called a snowflake. It's almost like your argument becomes 'well, it was only a little bit racist, so what's the big deal?'.

You're just being wilfully ignorant at this stage. You're acting as if it's some kind of bizarre conspiracy that a 66 year old ex-British footballer is prone to resorting to racial stereotypes, consciously or otherwise I mean he'll have shared dressing rooms where racial banter would have gone unchallenged. There's a known punditry incident where Richard Keys called a Black Scottish player a 'Chocko Jocko' while sitting next to Souness. You think he wasn't exposed to worse language in everyday life? You think it's likely he didn't assimilate any of the stereotypes that abounded back then?

I'd much rather be part of 'Generation Outrage' than the archaic and reactionary generation which screams 'snowflake' when anyone dares to call out people for racist/misogynistic/homophobic behaviour. Read some history books and maybe you'll grasp the significance of language when it comes to things such as race.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Good posts by @BobbyManc , I agree totally.

 

[Giuliano Maiorana]

Dont know if anyone heard it this morning on Talksport, on the Jim White show, Troy Townsend ( anti racism campaigner ) and I believe Andros Townsend's dad? Was on and called out Souness for what he said about moise Kean. Quite a listen and got heated. If anyone is interested!

 

[Stacks]

Haha, forgive me and others for having the temerity to be aggrieved at a perceived racial bias in a football pundit. Next time I believe someone to be guilty of indulging in racial stereotypes, I'll keep my mouth shut lest I be called a snowflake. It's almost like your argument becomes 'well, it was only a little bit racist, so what's the big deal?'.

You're just being wilfully ignorant at this stage. You're acting as if it's some kind of bizarre conspiracy that a 66 year old ex-British footballer is prone to resorting to racial stereotypes, consciously or otherwise I mean he'll have shared dressing rooms where racial banter would have gone unchallenged. There's a known punditry incident where Richard Keys called a Black Scottish player a 'Chocko Jocko' while sitting next to Souness. You think he wasn't exposed to worse language in everyday life? You think it's likely he didn't assimilate any of the stereotypes that abounded back then?

I'd much rather be part of 'Generation Outrage' than the archaic and reactionary generation which screams 'snowflake' when anyone dares to call out people for racist/misogynistic/homophobic behaviour. Read some history books and maybe you'll grasp the significance of language when it comes to things such as race.

Perceived racial bias because he digs out Pogba (who has given plenty reason to be dug out) and was asking questions about Moise who happens to be black? So because they happen to be black it's because he must be a racist. Graham showed a Iack of knowledge and If you track Grahame commentary, if he feels something is up, he always uses attitude as he is from that era where attitude and heart rules talent.

Except he did object to it when Howard Gayle was being abused by a confirmed racist in Tommy Smith . In fact he was the only one who vocally did.

Howard received support from Graeme Souness the day he reacted to a barrel-load of racist provocation from Smith by waiting for him in the car park and threatening him with a baseball bat. (Graham was hoping the black man beats up said racist for being racist)

The black player receives support from a racist for dealing with a racist who is racially abusing him. Interesting. Souness was also accused of being a bigot because he sold a few Irish players in the noughties. #Patterns

The more people scream racism and bigotry at the drop of a hat, makes it less likely people will believe if someone like me actually experiences racism. This is a fad, amplified by social media. Were people calling him racist before he got a hard on for their beloved Pogba? Do you think he goes for Pogba because;
A) he cost 90 million
B) he is a black man
C) he is a high profile talented player in a struggling team
D) he is inconsistent with his immense talent
E) he (Souness) has a distorted expectation of what Pogba should be as a player

 

[Stacks]

Moise Kean DROPPED by Italy as a punishment for turning up late for a summer team meeting... as Roberto Mancini tells him 'you must always behave well' hours after Graeme Souness criticised Everton new boy https://t.co/Xr9oCJdT49

The irony

 

[BobbyManc]

Perceived racial bias because he digs out Pogba (who has given plenty reason to be dug out) and was asking questions about Moise who happens to be black? So because they happen to be black it's because he must be a racist. Graham showed a Iack of knowledge and If you track Grahame commentary, if he feels something is up, he always uses attitude as he is from that era where attitude and heart rules talent.

Except he did object to it when Howard Gayle was being abused by a confirmed racist in Tommy Smith . In fact he was the only one who vocally did.

Howard received support from Graeme Souness the day he reacted to a barrel-load of racist provocation from Smith by waiting for him in the car park and threatening him with a baseball bat. (Graham was hoping the black man beats up said racist for being racist)

The black player receives support from a racist for dealing with a racist who is racially abusing him. Interesting. Souness was also accused of being a bigot because he sold a few Irish players in the noughties. #Patterns

The more people scream racism and bigotry at the drop of a hat, makes it less likely people will believe if someone like me actually experiences racism. This is a fad, amplified by social media. Were people calling him racist before he got a hard on for their beloved Pogba? Do you think he goes for Pogba because;
A) he cost 90 million
B) he is a black man
C) he is a high profile talented player in a struggling team
D) he is inconsistent with his immense talent
E) he (Souness) has a distorted expectation of what Pogba should be as a player

Well done on continuing to spectacularly miss the point. No one is saying that he has criticised black players he is racist. I'm sure he has criticised lots of players in the past, plenty of whom will have been black, all without stirring any response. And Pogba has attracted a hell of a lot of criticism from pundits, and no one is accusing them of racism. It is the nature of his criticism of Pogba and Kean, comparison to Adebayor, slip of the tongue when he mentioned Africa, that is indicative of a man guilty of lapsing into offensive and outdated racial stereotypes when judging players.

I have no reason to suspect that Souness is not fundamentally a decent person. His only problem is that he comes from a different era and carries the baggage of that. The article that was linked addressing the criticism of Kean summed it up perfectly. It never claimed Souness was doing anything deliberately or maliciously. But if you can't see the problems with his comments, you need to stop being wilfully ignorant or educate yourself.

 

[Stacks]

Well done on continuing to spectacularly miss the point. No one is saying that he has criticised black players he is racist. I'm sure he has criticised lots of players in the past, plenty of whom will have been black, all without stirring any response. And Pogba has attracted a hell of a lot of criticism from pundits, and no one is accusing them of racism. It is the nature of his criticism of Pogba and Kean, comparison to Adebayor, slip of the tongue when he mentioned Africa, that is indicative of a man guilty of lapsing into offensive and outdated racial stereotypes when judging players.

I have no reason to suspect that Souness is not fundamentally a decent person. His only problem is that he comes from a different era and carries the baggage of that. The article that was linked addressing the criticism of Kean summed it up perfectly. It never claimed Souness was doing anything deliberately or maliciously. But if you can't see the problems with his comments, you need to stop being wilfully ignorant or educate yourself.

I already offered alternatives to why Pogba gets criticised the most by Souness. From day one he could not get past the exorbitant fee that his 'beloved' United paid for him

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/souness-pogba-everything-said-slams-13191434

Adebayor did actually have a shitty attitude which was confirmed by team mates. His point with Adebayor was valid. Sold at the top of his game and did actually have a bad attitude. The Kean stuff is being blown out of proportion and he has actually turned up late for Italy meetings and has Raiola as an agent, which could be a reason for his early departure from Juve and why he didn't sign a new contract. It's just easy to lay it on skin colour and ignore other factors

 

[Hughie77]

Sky need to boot him out, the guys just hanging around picking up his pay check,! The games moved on so much since he played, half of what he got up on the pitch is a yellow or red now!

Get a ex player who's played in the modern game, or ex manager from last few years. They got rid of keys and grey quick enough ?

 

[MonkeysMagic]

You've got to question Sky's thinking when idiotic former players like Souness, Merson and Nicholas are still fronting their programs and well past their sell-by date! There's no lack of intelligent, articulate and younger former players that can replace the deadwood (Alex Scott being prime example) but Sky seem to think the audience is made up of stuck-in-the-past, monosyllabic goons like their pundits!

 

[BobbyManc]

I already offered alternatives to why Pogba gets criticised the most by Souness. From day one he could not get past the exorbitant fee that his 'beloved' United paid for him

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/souness-pogba-everything-said-slams-13191434

Adebayor did actually have a shitty attitude which was confirmed by team mates. His point with Adebayor was valid. Sold at the top of his game and did actually have a bad attitude. The Kean stuff is being blown out of proportion and he has actually turned up late for Italy meetings and has Raiola as an agent, which could be a reason for his early departure from Juve and why he didn't sign a new contract. It's just easy to lay it on skin colour and ignore other factors

No it's not. The vast majority of pundits and journalists criticise black players in the same way that they would non-black players. Race is almost never brought up as an explanation for their criticism because it almost never is. There's a reason that Souness is attracting this attention about his comments and no other pundit or journalist is. I've took issue in the past with Yaya Toure being criticised for an apparent laziness (including by Souness), but I've never once accused people making those comments of falling back on racial stereotypes. It's simply because I've disagreed with that view and attributed their perception to other factors.

Your comments about Adebayor encapsulate it perfectly as it demonstrates that you are continuing to miss the point. No one is saying Souness's comments about Adebayor are racist. They were valid criticism, perfectly merited and reasonable. It is the comparison of Adebayor to Kean, apropos of nothing (Souness never referred to Kean being late or his agent and made it clear he was only speculating), that is problematic.