Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

VAR - Love or Hate?

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Love is a strong word but it works so I can’t understand why people are moaning about it.

My one big issue at the moment is the rules behind VAR. The new handball rule is ridiculous and needs changing. That Wolves disallowed goal was ridiculous for simply brushing an air.

Similarly the Sterling being offside didn’t look offside to me, the line they drew was in line with his arm which he can’t score with so it was wrongly called offside in my opinion. When it’s tight like that I just feel the attacker should get the benefit.
 
Bring on the cheerleaders, that’ll be next. The authorities are trying their best to destroy our game.
I can hear the chants now, “The VAR is a wxxnker the VAR is a wxxnker”.
“Whose the bastard in the VAR, whose the bastard in the VAR”?
 
Patience said:
See Man City's last-gasp goal against Spurs in the CL last season... GOAL - wild celebration - 30 seconds later utter despair because it's disallowed.
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You're contradicting yourself here - everyone went nuts while VAR was already in play, no one gave a flying feck though. That was in the semis so everyone was already "used to" it being present in the Champions League.

Let's just agree to disagree. I really feel for you if you're not going to be able to enjoy goals anymore. 95th minute, last minute winner against Liverpool by Rashford at Old Trafford, and you'll sit on your hands because it might get disallowed? Poor you.
 
RK said:
Totally agree.

Normally at the stadium you'd be able to have a quick glance at the ref and lino while celebrating like mad. Now you have to hold back.

The best thing about football is celebrating a goal. VAR is somewhat taking that away from us.

Last night I watched from home. I still celebrated properly because I'm not used to VAR yet, but each time I remembered earlier and earlier that it could be ruled out, and we'd be left feeling like mugs, empty and dead inside :nervous:... Was it a penalty? Did Martial wrestle Azpilicueta? Was Rashy offside? Was Zouma fouled?

When we have one ruled out, I expect more people will understand where we're coming from.
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95% of the stadium had no problem celebrating the goal, nor did those at home it seems.

So you celebrate it once, and then you celebrate it again. When one is ruled out by a correct VAR referral, then I expect a large proportion of fans to swear, accept the decision and move on. The only ones to find issue with it are the ones already stoically rejecting VAR.
 
Patience said:
I was in the south stand yesterday - between the players' families and the directors boxes - and I didn't celebrate Rashford's brilliant second goal because I was convinced when Pogba played that clip over the top that Rashy was half-a-yard offside.

This is why I HATE VAR.

You can't live in the moment. You have to just put your fingernail in your mouth after a close-run goal like that is scored and then just wait... and wait..and wait while the ref sticks his finger in his ear, has a conversation with some guy in a truck and then finally points his hand to the half-way line to signal goal is allowed. Then, instead of celebrating like a hyper monkey, jumping up and down and hugging the bloke next to you, you just clench your fist and sit down.

VAR ruins fan enjoyment of the game.. we can't even celebrate goals because we know there is a guy in a truck somewhere looking back it it on replays before the referee can allow the goal. feck that.
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RK said:
Totally agree.

Normally at the stadium you'd be able to have a quick glance at the ref and lino while celebrating like mad. Now you have to hold back.

The best thing about football is celebrating a goal. VAR is somewhat taking that away from us.

Last night I watched from home. I still celebrated properly because I'm not used to VAR yet, but each time I remembered earlier and earlier that it could be ruled out, and we'd be left feeling like mugs, empty and dead inside :nervous:... Was it a penalty? Did Martial wrestle Azpilicueta? Was Rashy offside? Was Zouma fouled?

When we have one ruled out, I expect more people will understand where we're coming from.
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100% this.

I’d love to hear a survey from matchgoing fans about VAR. I suspect there would be a hell of a lot fewer cheerleaders for it than we’re seeing in the caf.
 
montpelier said:
Whereas youse FOR VAR lot are like a bizarre religious cult that believes VAR will MAGICALLY make EVERYTHING better.

And everyone knew cassettes were crap. So that isn't an argument even by the formidably low standards most of us are using here, as positions become even more entrenched, :D.
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And they have a really condescending attitude about it too.
 
It can do the offsides though. It has to be a line drawn somewhere or other. Wherever you draw it, there are going to be close calls.

It won't be perfect but seems more objective than just having a guess.

So, I don't really get that criticism, tbh. It looks messy & faffy but how else do you do it?

I like the offsides being right, if they can help interpreting the rule too, it'll be great, :).
 
As long as it's used for clear and obvious errors I'm fine with it. It shouldn't be used to looking for errors using a microscope. That Sterling offside wasn't a clear nor obvious error imo. And as the poster above says it seems it was with his arm anyway.
 
RobinLFC said:
You're contradicting yourself here - everyone went nuts while VAR was already in play, no one gave a flying feck though. That was in the semis so everyone was already "used to" it being present in the Champions League.

Let's just agree to disagree. I really feel for you if you're not going to be able to enjoy goals anymore.
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My God, you're not very bright.

VAR is at the beginning stages.

People who aren't very bright to its useage - a bit like you - will inevitably start delaying their live reaction to 'close-run' goals.

It hasn't happened yet.... but it will, once people get used to it. Three or four more instances like the Man City/Spurs example will help seep this train of thought into the mindsets of fans.

Fans will not be jumping up and down, hugging their mates, waving their scarfs, if they think -in the back of their head - that there's a chance the goal is going to be disallowed 30-seconds later. This is just obvious. We just haven't got used to it yet. But we will. We all will. At some point our consciousness will kick in and we will all be aware that the goal hasn't yet been awarded... and as a result the celebrations will be somewhat diluted. How does that not make sense to you? It's as clear as day.

You know when a close offside goal is scored and just as you are about to celebrate, you throw your eyes over to the far linesman to make sure he isn't standing still with his flag up.... Well, now you won't be doing that anymore. You will be waiting and watching the referee with his finger in his ear for about 30 or 40 (sometimes longer) seconds. How does that not make sense to you that celebrations will be diluted because of VAR? Of course they will. For intelligent fans anyway.
 
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Sir Red Devil said:
Well if officials are going to count every millimeter to decide whether the play was offside or not then please bring up the technology that's capable to fix the exact moment (down to milliseconds precise) the passer is releasing the ball. Otherwise its not fair and VAR was brought to make the game more fair in the first place. At the moment the best scenario would be to change the offside rule, so unless the attacker is not fully ahead of the defender then it's not an offside.
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People are also saying it’s undoubtedly the correct decision to disallow Jesus’s goal yesterday because Sterling’s shoulder is a mm offside without explaining how we know it’s offside when the camera used to make the decision isn’t even in line with the players.
 
Champagne Football said:
VAR is brilliant as you no longer have to hear the fans of the losing club whinge all week, about how they were absolutely robbed.
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Hahahaha, yeah, right. Remember the Scousers whinging for months after their game at the Etihad, even though it was the completely non-subjective goalline technology that ruled their "goal" out?

Orwellians said:
I love VAR but want changes. If a penalty is missed, why re-take it? The goalie was off his line? Yellow card. A player encroached? Yellow card. Neither action has impacted on the weak shot from the spot.
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The goalkeeper being off his line certainly has an impact on the penalty itself - it changes the angles the goalkeeper covers, makes his job easier.

Encroaching can ensure a player gets there first to clear (or score from) the potential rebound. Again, there's a good reason it's not allowed.
 
Josep Dowling said:
Love is a strong word but it works so I can’t understand why people are moaning about it.

My one big issue at the moment is the rules behind VAR. The new handball rule is ridiculous and needs changing. That Wolves disallowed goal was ridiculous for simply brushing an air.

Similarly the Sterling being offside didn’t look offside to me, the line they drew was in line with his arm which he can’t score with so it was wrongly called offside in my opinion. When it’s tight like that I just feel the attacker should get the benefit.
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It was his shoulder that was deemed offside, which you can score with.
 
If you're going to have VAR you have to change the rules of football. The rules were written and evolved so that a referee could fairly police a game - that's no longer the case.
 
acnumber9 said:
People are also saying it’s undoubtedly the correct decision to disallow Jesus’s goal yesterday because Sterling’s shoulder is a mm offside without explaining how we know it’s offside when the camera used to make the decision isn’t even in line with the players.
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The offside is determined by 3d imaging using multiple cameras. There is no one camera used to make the decision.
 
Broad Street Bullies said:
As long as it's used for clear and obvious errors I'm fine with it. It shouldn't be used to looking for errors using a microscope. That Sterling offside wasn't a clear nor obvious error imo. And as the poster above says it seems it was with his arm anyway.
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I'll put in a ''maybe not'' agreement here I think. Just because my post sits next to yours. Maybe a a special VAR allowance to the attacker is a way to do it, after all. I don't know.
 
sullydnl said:
The offside is determined by 3d imaging using multiple cameras. There is no one camera used to make the decision.
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How? They find the best angle to use from the camera and use it to draw the line from anything I’ve seen in. The best angle is rarely going to be in line with the defender.
 
VAR isn't perfect, but I can tell you from experience in Italy that it did more good, than harm.

For one it drastically decreased paranoia against top teams that 'always get favours from the ref'.

The other thing to note is that it doesn't fragment the game that much, so no need to worry about footballing experience being similar to American hand-egg.
 
RK said:
Totally agree.

Normally at the stadium you'd be able to have a quick glance at the ref and lino while celebrating like mad. Now you have to hold back.

The best thing about football is celebrating a goal. VAR is somewhat taking that away from us.

Last night I watched from home. I still celebrated properly because I'm not used to VAR yet, but each time I remembered earlier and earlier that it could be ruled out, and we'd be left feeling like mugs, empty and dead inside :nervous:... Was it a penalty? Did Martial wrestle Azpilicueta? Was Rashy offside? Was Zouma fouled?

When we have one ruled out, I expect more people will understand where we're coming from.
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But imagine no VAR and the ref had wrongly called an offside.

We would have been denied a legitimate goal, which imo would create an even bigger uproar (especially if it would have cost us points)
 
My main issue is with the offside calls. It feels wrong to me to have the Sterling type ones overturned. That said, I don’t have a great alternative - it would have to be moving to something akin to cricket where they have an umpires call for close ones.

Handballs are also currently laughable but that’s due to the bizarre changes in the rules, rather than anything to do with VAR.
 
Patience said:
I am telling you that it will only take one or two instances of fans celebrating like lunatics, then being burnt 30-seconds later when the referee disallows it, for them to be hesitant of celebrating goals like Rashford's yesterday.
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We've had VAR for two years in Italy, so far the situation you describe is entirely in your head


See Man City's last-gasp goal against Spurs in the CL last season... GOAL - wild celebration - 30 seconds later utter despair because it's disallowed.
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Lost in all the "VAR is a witch, burn it at the stake!" pearl clutching, was the fact that that goal had been disallowed on the pitch by the linesman. VAR merely confirmed the on the pitch call. VAR didn't change anything about that play and how it went
 
Patience said:
My God, you're not very bright.

VAR is at the beginning stages.

People who aren't very bright to its useage - a bit like you - will inevitably start delaying their live reaction to 'close-run' goals.
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First of all, you could really do without the "intelligence" references. Second of all, VAR has been implemented in Belgium for over two years and the behaviour of match-going fans, myself included, hasn't changed at all.

But yeah, I just have to "get used to it", don't I? Feck off :lol:
 
Siorac said:
Hahahaha, yeah, right. Remember the Scousers whinging for months after their game at the Etihad, even though it was the completely non-subjective goalline technology that ruled their "goal" out?
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No?
 
I'm going to stop celebrating victories until the end of the season, when I know for sure the win won't be overturned due to some technical mistake or player that's been caught pissing hot. And even then you can't be too sure. To be on the safe side, I'm just going to celebrate title wins a year or two later.
 
RobinLFC said:
What the actual feck :lol:
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Indeed. Technology won't stop people whining about refereeing. Hell, look at our PSG game last season. That VAR call proved controversial, to say the least.

Overall I'm in favour of VAR after initially being against it but it's not going to eliminate subjectivity, and needs refinement in its application.
 
Broad Street Bullies said:
As long as it's used for clear and obvious errors I'm fine with it. It shouldn't be used to looking for errors using a microscope. That Sterling offside wasn't a clear nor obvious error imo. And as the poster above says it seems it was with his arm anyway.
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I could support the use of VAR if was applied judiciously like you say for clear and obvious errors.
 
Patience said:
Fans will not be jumping up and down, hugging their mates, waving their scarfs, if they think -in the back of their head - that there's a chance the goal is going to be disallowed 30-seconds later. This is just obvious. We just haven't got used to it yet. But we will. We all will. At some point our consciousness will kick in and we will all be aware that the goal hasn't yet been awarded... and as a result the celebrations will be somewhat diluted. How does that not make sense to you? It's as clear as day.
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Except this hasn’t happened in rugby, a sport notorious for reviewing a huge amount of scoring plays.

Also knock off the digs at people’s intelligence
 
i love how (some of) the anti VAR people on here are already experts on it and already predicting fans behaviour years in advance based on one round, while at the same time ignoring the views of those who have literally experienced VAR for multiple seasons in thier own leagues. :wenger:
 
Would be fun to se statistics about refs overruled by VAR.
Maybe this should be a part of statistics from every match.

VAR will sooner or later result in similar rules used in NFL, where each coach is allowed two opportunities per game to make a coach's challenge.
 
stepic said:
i love how (some of) the anti VAR people on here are already experts on it and already predicting fans behaviour years in advance based on one round, while at the same time ignoring the views of those who have literally experienced VAR for multiple seasons in thier own leagues. :wenger:
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Just goes to show you can't account for thick foreign fans to do what's right for this great game that was invented in England.....We can tell not after one round, but after one decision. C'mon Europe catch up!
 
The strangest one at the United game yesterday was i think Tammy Abraham had fouled someone and just an obvious booking.

All of a sudden the screen said checking red card offence. But play had started before the decision was obviously a no.

Now did the ref call the check? As he'd initially let play go on, not deeming the foul that major to even stop for!
 
stepic said:
i love how (some of) the anti VAR people on here are already experts on it and already predicting fans behaviour years in advance based on one round, while at the same time ignoring the views of those who have literally experienced VAR for multiple seasons in thier own leagues. :wenger:
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It's pathetic. "I'm a match going fan at Old Trafford, so what the feck do you know, keyboard warrior?" :rolleyes:
 
ivaldo said:
Let's just agree to disagree. I really feel for you if you're not going to be able to enjoy goals anymore. 95th minute, last minute winner against Liverpool by Rashford at Old Trafford, and you'll sit on your hands because it might get disallowed? Poor you.
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Well, this has already happened. Man City had an injury-time Champions League knockout stage winner ruled out by VAR. Can you really imagine that their supporters enjoyed this 'goal'?

I'm not against VAR, but I don't see how anyone can disagree with the assertion that it changes the relationship between supporters and the game. I'm not a United fan, but when Rashford scored his second goal yesterday, I thought it was an excellent goal, and then I instantly reflected that it might not be a goal at all. You just don't know, there's no way of knowing.

It's not even like cricket where you generally have a fairly good idea of whether a wicket is LBW, caught, etc, at least while watching on TV. You just have no idea whether a goal is a goal or not, particularly with offsides. If they're going to give decisions as marginal as the Sterling one then supporters will never again know whether any goal that is remotely close to being offside is legitimate or not.

Obviously this is going to change the nature of attending the games. You're either not going to celebrate goals until they're awarded by VAR, and lose the intensity of the moment, or many, many celebrations are going to turn out to have been premature and pointless. Either way, it's going to leave a bit of a sour taste for partisan fans in the ground, even though it will result in more correct decisions.

I would still like to see a challenge system, as implemented in cricket, tennis and American football. This then puts the onus back on the managers. They're always moaning about the number of terrible decisions, well if you're that confident then you can challenge them at the time. And if you've used up your challenges then you have nothing to complain about, and you only have yourself to blame.
 
wub1234 said:
Well, this has already happened. Man City had an injury-time Champions League knockout stage winner ruled out by VAR. Can you really imagine that their supporters enjoyed this 'goal'?

I'm not against VAR, but I don't see how anyone can disagree with the assertion that it changes the relationship between supporters and the game. I'm not a United fan, but when Rashford scored his second goal yesterday, I thought it was an excellent goal, and then I instantly reflected that it might not be a goal at all. You just don't know, there's no way of knowing.

It's not even like cricket where you generally have a fairly good idea of whether a wicket is LBW, caught, etc, at least while watching on TV. You just have no idea whether a goal is a goal or not, particularly with offsides. If they're going to give decisions as marginal as the Sterling one then supporters will never again know whether any goal that is remotely close to being offside is legitimate or not.

Obviously this is going to change the nature of attending the games. You're either not going to celebrate goals until they're awarded by VAR, and lose the intensity of the moment, or many, many celebrations are going to turn out to have been premature and pointless. Either way, it's going to leave a bit of a sour taste for partisan fans in the ground, even though it will result in more correct decisions.

I would still like to see a challenge system, as implemented in cricket, tennis and American football. This then puts the onus back on the managers. They're always moaning about the number of terrible decisions, well if you're that confident then you can challenge them at the time. And if you've used up your challenges then you have nothing to complain about, and you only have yourself to blame.
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Just going to reply to you since you quoted my post but it says Ivaldo for one reason or another.

First bolded part: I imagine they were delighted until it got ruled out, and afterwards they were disappointed but could understand it because it was the right call. VAR does not stop people from celebrating goals in the moment, you just have to accept that in some cases it will (99% of the times correctly) be ruled out. Is that so hard? If anything the agony of going from pure joy to despair or vice versa is something that I like and adds to the drama (e.g. I remember a Mane goal last year which was initially ruled out but later on given, think it was the 0-1 at Porto).

Second bolded part: I'm in a 20k seater stadium once or twice a month, in a competition which has implemented VAR over two years ago. I can vouch that it is not the case. It's also not "many, many celebrations" that get overturned.
 
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