From yesterday's match it's not not just when VAR is used, it's when it's not used as well. There's a lot of moments when you're kind of in limbo waiting to see if VAR's comes in, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
- Start date
Anyone with half a brain should know that the rules of the sport are going to change dramatically due to the use of VAR. It’s also true that half brained people will sit in front of their TVs and do as the shrinking herd does no matter how much the game changes.
VAR is the way to go, but I don’t think it will stay in the current format. I have to admit, I find it harder to celebrate goals when I know it’s potentially offside. I still think the guidelines aren’t great. Like yesterday when they checked VAR for Rashford when he was like 10 yards off, but couldn’t check the blatant foul on Pogba as he was outside the area. It’s just a bit clunky still.
Another particularly infuriating bit of VAR feckery was when they delayed the game to check a goal Rashford scored when he was clearly at least two yards offside.
The game was delayed while they checked the bleeding obvious, only for replays to highlight that the ref had missed an absolutely blatant foul on Pogba after he passed the ball to Rashford. Yet no freekick was awarded to us.
So we have VAR wasting everyone’s time checking a call that even the shittest linesman in the league would get right, while simultaneously ignoring an obvious piece of foul play.
I never thought I would agree that a challenge system would be better, but I would fully support it.
People aren’t acknowledging that there are relatively very few incorrect calls by the referees. To review everything and to change the flow and the emotion of the game, just to pick out a very small number of mistakes, seems too harsh.
If a coach thinks they got it wrong, challenge it. If not, the call on the field stands and we move on.
As a viewer, it’d be much more dramatic to see everyone’s eyes dart to the manager wondering if he’d challenge, than to see all of their eyes dart to a computer monitor.
What an utterly idiotic mental leap to make.
It’s a wonder this sport ever got so popular, what with the overwhelming amount of incorrect decisions. Gosh, how could the most valuable league in the world reside in England, where the most blatant missed call ever robbed them of a World Cup? I can’t believe you’ve all kept watching.
It's both. VAR will diminish the instant impact of a goal, and it will either (a) reduce the level of celebration, (b) result in some supporters celebrating less because they know that it could be ruled out, or (c) both.
I don't see how anyone can argue against this.
Some of these decisions are debatable. Sterling's offside may not have been offside, and if it was offside then it was so marginally offside that surely the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt. Fabregas' red card, mentioned earlier in the thread, is just plain incorrect. And even the Wolves goal, while it was the correct decision to the letter of the law, it was hardly a clear-cut, cast-iron handball.
VAR should be used to eliminate really poor decisions. Not to allow every single goal to be analysed, so that microscopic reasons can be found to disallow them.
I've already said that I was pro-VAR, but it's difficult to support it the way that it's being implemented now.
I watch lots of cricket and tennis, and replays have been implemented in these sports in a way that doesn't diminish from the sport, and which is in line with the spirit of the game. Firstly, I can't agree that the Sterling offside decision is in the spirit of the game. According to Andy Gray's analysis, it's arguably not even a correct decision. And, secondly, I do think VAR diminishes from the sport, particularly for game-going supporters, as it stands now. That has been confirmed by those who attended matches, but I don't see how anyone can argue against that anyway.
The positive of VAR is that it will stop really bad decisions (if they are related to a goal) from standing. That is unequivocally a good thing. But I don't believe it is beneficial to sit there analysing whether or not Raheem Sterling's arm is marginally offside when you slow some footage down to frame-by-frame, and in one frame he's onside, and in another frame he's 1cm offside, especially as the game-going fans can't see this, and it deprives them of the usual organic supporting experience.
Didn't think it was for freekicks.
If 95 per cent of the big decisions were ruled correctly by the average ref, there would not be a need for VAR. Whatever annoyance you are feeling in the day, is nothing compared to the one you are feeling when your team has been ripped off.
Plus the lower teams have long been complaining of a bias towards the top teams. VAR should help with that perception too.
Plus the lower teams have long been complaining of a bias towards the top teams. VAR should help with that perception too.
I wouldn't deny that it ruins the moment for others, I just think it's weird that it does. No power on earth was stopping me from punching the air when we scored, nor would 100 years of VAR stop a kid like James going mental when he scores on his debut.
Sports like rugby have a similar issue with trys and I've never not celebrated one because of it. You celebrate, wait to see what happens, celebrate again if need be.
I also wonder to what degree it will ruin celebrations for ye in the long run or if it's just something ye'll get used to. I can absolutely accept that the rythym of celebrating changes but actually ruining the moment? That seems rather precious.
Regarding the bold, no, that's not how offside works. You're either offside or you're not, you can't say "well he's only marginally offside so we'll let it slide".
The offsides are now called with as much precision as is humanly possible. I'm not sure one can reasonably ask for more than that. I can understand people not liking how rigid and unforgiving offsides are but that's the nature of the rule, it's built to be a yes/no decision.
Regarding the Wolves decision, it was absolutely clear cut. Under the new rules if a handball leads to a chance or goal it's an offence, even if it was accidental. Once you see it touch the hand/arm, it's an easy decision.
I haven't seen the Fabregas incident, mind.
They do. and there are loads of stats to prove that.
And they will still do. We keep hearing about these Henry handball and hand of god, yet how often such clear cut incidents have happened in the game and not caught by the refs.
Most fans/managers are unable to accept that their team lost on the day and the referee is a scapegoat for them. They only remember decisions that went for them, but can hardly remember something which went for them. Example, Everyone will blame that the drogba offside goal was the reason we lost the title in 2009/10, but its not that simple. Barley few can remember any dodgy pens we got during that season.
Look it up on YouTube, Lyon versus Monaco. It is a stinker.
But I accept the system will get most decisions technically correct. I just question what you are losing in order to deem Raheem Sterling one frame offside, although he was onside if you look at the previous frame, where the player is still touching the ball.
VAR should be there to prevent outright bad decisions. Certainly, there is a case for the Wolves-Leicester one. That is technically a handball, and it's fair enough for that to be pulled back.
I don't agree with ruling out goals for offside where in one frame the player is offside, and in the next frame they're onside.
I am a supporter of VAR, and I think it will enhance the game, but I don't agree with the way that it's implemented currently. I don't see any reason why there can't be a challenge system, as is operated in other sports. And, at the very least, fans in the stadium need to be shown footage.
The problem for me is that I can see few years down the line, where almost every other goal will be looked at and that's going to make it harder for me atleast to celebrate till the decision is made. I am basing this on the rugby stats..
So here's a report of the TMO usage in the rugby world cups.
RWC Tries TMO Ratio
2015 265 77 3.44
2011 262 56 4.68
2007 296 57 5.19
2003 332 36 9.22
The number of tries are decreasing. That's obvious with the TMO overturning, unfair tries. Secondly, you can see that the referral for tries are increasing exponentially. A call is made every 3.4 tries in a sport which averages 6 tries a game.
To me, if football moves in that direction, we are looking at most goals obviously VAR'd just "to be sure" there wasn't an infringement in the buildup.
VAR saved my marriage and cured my grand mother's gout, I'll have you know.Whereas youse FOR VAR lot are like a bizarre religious cult that believes VAR will MAGICALLY make EVERYTHING better.
And everyone knew cassettes were crap. So that isn't an argument even by the formidably low standards most of us are using here, as positions become even more entrenched,
Sorry. But a sport is not better off in the long run if its highlights will increasingly consist of video assisted refereeing decisions (off-pitch) and decreasingly consist of player highlights. It’s just not.
We’ll be diminishing the quality of these professionals by not picking at all of these insignificant details.
Sorry, but to continuously degrade a game into just being about VAR is wrong and inaccurate. Explain to me how VAR will REPLACE player highlights? These dramatic moments, these moments of jeopardy will not be a replacement in any shape or form, but will run alongside what we already see. You're going to need to qualify this before wanting people to buy into this dystopian future you seem all too eager to paint.
VAR is terrible now- Never mind the future when it’ll be looking into more calls inevitably
Brilliant response to the content of my post. It ain't but what do I care? If correct decisions upset you then so be it.
‘Correct’ decisions is ambiguous itself. Secondly if you want correct decisions all the time let’s stop the game constantly to check every little thing? Right?
The game is being ruined & changed beyond description for the sake of going from 95-98 % correct decisions.
It’s their refusal to acknowledge this point that’s so frustrating, never mind the cowardice that drives such a willingness to accept new technology for the sake of it.
I bet there isn’t. It’s a lazy and stupid connection.
It’s incredible how highly you think of your own opinion
How has VAR 'ruined' the game in any way?
Here comes the hyperbole train! Changed beyond description
. Let me give this a go: So correct decisions are a bad thing now if it slows the game down? Let's just remove the referee altogether and just decide after the game if goals should stand or not. Offsides stop play too often too, should we remove it completely? Perhaps we should remove goal kicks and throw-in's too. Am I doing it right? Here we go, the usual misinformation about VAR is rolled out. How often does VAR actually stop the game? On the rare occasions it does, it is because the ref is to award a penalty or send a player off. More often than not, we will see it allow play to continue. Instances like tight offside calls won't be made because it can be referred to VAR if a goal is scored, and play is allowed to continue. Don't let the truth get in the way though!
Here comes the hyperbole train! Changed beyond description
Here we go, the usual misinformation about VAR is rolled out. How often does VAR actually stop the game? On the rare occasions it does, it is because the ref is to award a penalty or send a player off. More often than not, we will see it allow play to continue. Instances like tight offside calls won't be made because it can be referred to VAR if a goal is scored, and play is allowed to continue. Don't let the truth get in the way though!
Truth is var doesn’t even need to stop the game to have an impact too- EVERY goal is reviwed so when if you think it’s a goal you can never be sure- that’s the truth
Haha pro var people are a shambles. I’m as pro EU as they come & am totally against VAR.
It’s making the game less enjoyable for me. For all the many reasons against it that have been mentioned already
You didn't answer my question. How often will VAR actually stop the game? Or are we already moving on? So now you're telling me drama and jeopardy are bad for sport? Rinse and repeat.
Last edited:
Oh look Forest is still posting away and refusing to respond to anyone who questions his warped sense of logic. Didn't fancy replying no?
Yes you’re right I mean football was in the doldrums before VAR came along. The Sport was doing terribly. Injustice all over the place , I’m surprised any clubs bothered to play until we fixed football
You've fulfilled your own request but couldn't quite wrap your head around it. I'm not sure if you watch the NFL or not, but that sport is now about instant replay. Instant replay has dictated that not only rules need to be constantly changed, but simple definitions, such as what is or is not a catch, need to be constantly revised.
How will VAR replace highlights? The City winner against Spurs last year was the highlight. That goal will never be a part of a video compilation for the Champions League or for Sterling/City, etc. Neither will the VAR decision ever be used in a promo video for Spurs. That some of those special moments will be scrubbed from the sport, and that what we want to replace them with is micro analysis and technology, is a risky path for the sport to follow.
Edit: I was only using your quote to speak above your head, to anyone with the mental capacity to combine a bit of common sense with a bit of emotional intelligence. So carry on.
Aaaaand still you don't answer my question. Nice to see you've moved on to the 'anger' stage of the change curve.
Have you answered my question? Why does the most popular sport in the world by far need to change? At all?
Why don’t other sports follow us?
Football is not & will never be a place for VAR. If we persist with it I’m sure other sports will overtake one day. We are ruining the best game in the world for what? It’s insane
Ah I see. So now it's going to become just like the NFL. Just like Cricket and Rugby were supposed to become the NFL. Don't let historic accuracy get in the way of a good slice of hyperbole.
The response I was expecting, thanks. So goals officials deemed to be against the rules won't be included in highlights, and yet goals that would have otherwise been disallowed will also not be included in the highlights?
Historic goals and soundbites will be scrubbed due to technicalities. Insignificant technicalities, there's something we can all get behind right?Ah I see. So now it's going to become just like the NFL. Just like Cricket and Rugby were supposed to become the NFL. Don't let historic accuracy get in the way of a good slice of hyperbole.
The response I was expecting, thanks. So goals officials deemed to be against the rules won't be included in highlights, and yet goals that would have otherwise been disallowed will also not be included in the highlights?
Almost like you forgot the pro brexit lot won the polls and not the other way around.
So we should forget rules exist for romanticism? Let things slide as it suits a good narrative? Rules need to be accurately applied or stuff them off entirely. A player is offside or he isn't, a goal stands or it doesn't, there is no technicalities it's binary as it gets.
You want me to answer your question, that you hadn't even asked me, after you refused to answer mine? Looks to me like you're just trying to avoid answering at this point. Wonder why that is?
Because the sport has changed, whether you like it or not. As fans we do not consume football in the same way as we did 40 years ago, and, again, those changes have been facilitated by us, the fans. Horse has bolted, pal.
Seriously? Have you been living under a rock? Sorry to disappoint you but football is WAY behind the curve when it comes to technology. In fact, every major sport has incorporated technology way before football.
Nothing in football made me angrier than a penalty given because of a clear dive in the box or an awarded goal that was clearly offside. These instances are slowly becoming nonexistent and I couldn't be happier. I couldn't care less about having to wait 30 sec for the right call to be made.