If only there were some kind of happy medium between technology being used to rule out goals deliberately scored with the hand and technology being used to rule out goals because one player’s armpit hair was 0.5mm ahead of another’s.
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
- Start date
If only there were some kind of happy medium between technology being used to rule out goals deliberately scored with the hand and technology being used to rule out goals because one player’s armpit hair was 0.5mm ahead of another’s.
Yeah, Solskjær’s winner at the Camp Nou was amazing and all, but wouldn’t it have been even more dramatic and awesome if a minute later the ref had been like “lol actually...”
MAKE FOOTBALL GREAT AGAIN
Use it for quick and obvious errors for God's sake and it's a superb system.
Do not use it to try and see if Raheem Sterling is an inch on or offside, same goes for Jesse Lingard v Netherlands etc. If a player doesn't instantly look clearly offside, let it be.
And don't be using it for encroachment and such nonsense. It's overuse that will be the downfall for something that is otherwise superb.
Do not use it to try and see if Raheem Sterling is an inch on or offside, same goes for Jesse Lingard v Netherlands etc. If a player doesn't instantly look clearly offside, let it be.
And don't be using it for encroachment and such nonsense. It's overuse that will be the downfall for something that is otherwise superb.
Say it louder for the moaners in the back. American sports have had replays for years. Free flowing games like basketball have not had the “beauty” sucked out of it due to officials reviewing a call/play. This gatekeeping mentality is so tiresome and screams of “Well back in my day footballers smoked cigarettes, drank on the pitch, and played with leather balls filled with the bones of the animal whose skin was used for the ball.Real men who wore tiny shorts and had beautiful long flowing hair”. It is the future and VAR will become streamlined and more reliable. And were also in the first bloody week!
Counterpoint: all American sports are unwatchable garbage.
Yep. There are plenty of people against VAR who are just luddites but there are plenty of us who just want a common sense approach that will overrule any serious errors by referees but not infringe on the beauty and spontaneity of the game.
It's not VAR's fault that the offside rule is a joke. Do you expect them not to make the correct call? It's the rule itself that is the problem. Should be clear daylight between the defender and attacker. It's beyond stupid that if any part of the body is behind the defender than it's "offside". Between this and "tactical" fouls, ruins a large part of the game for me and can be a lazy way out for defenders.
It’s not VAR’s fault per se but whoever was in charge of implementing it into football could easily have stipulated that offsides had to be clear and obvious for the decision be overturned. They didn’t have to go down the route of picking through everything with a toothcomb.
I like VAR, but I don't like them using it for penalties. The GK pretty much always leaves the line. For West Ham v City, the GK left the line both for the first penalty kick, and for the re-take. Penalties are already high-percentage chances, and there's no need for them to be retaken until the attacking side scores, or to further half the GK from making a save.
That being said, I love VAR for checking that goals are actually goals, although it'd be nice if they minimized the time spent on each decision. Remember when Drogba scored an offside goal in 2009-10 to let Chelsea win 2-1 v United, then go on to win the league title by one point over United? We would've had another title with VAR in effect back then.
That being said, I love VAR for checking that goals are actually goals, although it'd be nice if they minimized the time spent on each decision. Remember when Drogba scored an offside goal in 2009-10 to let Chelsea win 2-1 v United, then go on to win the league title by one point over United? We would've had another title with VAR in effect back then.
VAR isn't being used to check whether the GK leaves his line or not.
Var reckoned so.
Oh you're right, I rewatched it now. They re-took it because West Ham players encroached the penalty area. Fair enough, I guess. Still don't like penalties being retaken unless absolutely necessary. I guess it made sense in this case.
I mean what would fix the controversy is a challenge system where there are no VAR checks unless you challenge it. You get two a game and if you are right, you get to keep it. This could be an interesting compromise between those who like the current implementation of VAR and those who don't. One issue could be how the team makes the referee aware they want to challenge, but this could be tested and solutions understood.
Oh you're right, I rewatched it now. They re-took it because West Ham players encroached the penalty area. Fair enough, I guess. Still don't like penalties being retaken unless absolutely necessary. I guess it made sense in this case.
One imagines players will quickly stop encroaching anyway once they know they'll be called on it by VAR, so it shouldn't be a big issue. It's not a difficult thing to avoid once you know you have to.
Yeah. I agree there. I thought it was called for the GK leaving the line, which is what my commentator said. Seems Rice, one of the players who encroached, also cleared the ball after the save, so he gained an advantage.
Thank you for pointing out my mistake. I'm even more positive about VAR now. Was thinking there'd be a lot of penalties retakes. Glad that won't be the case.
Nothing to do with cheating. Absolutely unrelated.
Many of the one inch offside goals that have been disallowed because of VAR, would never been allowed before VAR anyway. When in doubt, the refs always called offside, often long before the shot was taken. Now they leave those situations to VAR.
You never know with some of the stupid players in the PL.Yeah. I agree there. I thought it was called for the GK leaving the line, which is what my commentator said. Seems Rice, one of the players who encroached, also cleared the ball after the save, so he gained an advantage.
Thank you for pointing out my mistake. I'm even more positive about VAR now. Was thinking there'd be a lot of penalties retakes. Glad that won't be the case.
Do you honestly believe there would be any kind of consensus on what is a clear and obvious offside in that sense?
I really like VAR. Anything that eliminates wrong decisions and bad refs gets my support.
It’s funny you should write this now, as 99 out of 100 times you’d be right. But viewing on a camera and deciding where the line goes on the shoulder between what should be deemed hands and what you’d be allowed to score with, when it’s hidden under a shirt, is enough of an unclear decision that when you add the fact that it is still impossible to say with complete accuracy when the ball has actually physically left the foot, and the margin of error of pinpointing any defenders body part on a two dimensional picture, and the margin of error of the video equipment, and the fact that it was still difficult to see if there was a difference, then it can no longer be clear and obvious.
Yeah the whole "clear and obvious error" thing is nonsense because it's subjective, I'm not sure if it's actually implemented in any regards but pundits and commentators keep banging on about it. Wish no one had ever coined that phrase
Personally would prefer if the offside rule was updated to aid the attacker, but in order to stop disallowing goals that are practically level the rule would need updating to something new and definitive, not just say "oh it needs to be clear and obvious".
I was happy they didn't go the route of incredibly soft penalties for hand ball like we saw in the WWC. Hope that continues, because if not you will just have players aiming for arms, forcing defenders to keep their hands behind backs at all times, giving even more advantages to attackers. If scoring is too easy the games loses that dramatic tension that makes the key moments so impactful, we shouldn't harm that balance.
Bringing up how video tech works in other sports doesn't really help, of all the major sports football is the most free flowing. Tennis/Cricket have natural breaks between points. Basketball has a shot clock(and people should really look at how frustrated the fans get when the last 2 mins of a NBA game can take up to 30 mins real time because of constant use of it) Rugby has scrums/lineouts 6 tackles possession turnover.
Bringing up how video tech works in other sports doesn't really help, of all the major sports football is the most free flowing. Tennis/Cricket have natural breaks between points. Basketball has a shot clock(and people should really look at how frustrated the fans get when the last 2 mins of a NBA game can take up to 30 mins real time because of constant use of it) Rugby has scrums/lineouts 6 tackles possession turnover.
VAR is good for the sport. Implementation is another thing. Wonder how much better it would be if the call for VAR rests with the team|s captain. Something similar to Cricket.
1. 2 calls per game for each side. (max 1 for each half). Correct call retains the call.
2. Applicable only for offside calls/penalty calls by refs in run in for goals, and red cards.
3. Penalty kicks to be auto monitored for VAR.
Will not allow for all calls but perhaps cricitcal ones but might not necessitate stop for each goal and spoil fun for fans/players celebrating or watching.
1. 2 calls per game for each side. (max 1 for each half). Correct call retains the call.
2. Applicable only for offside calls/penalty calls by refs in run in for goals, and red cards.
3. Penalty kicks to be auto monitored for VAR.
Will not allow for all calls but perhaps cricitcal ones but might not necessitate stop for each goal and spoil fun for fans/players celebrating or watching.
Spot on. Many of these offside calls are only goals because the linesman is told to keep his flag down anyway.
Are you referring to his goal that was allowed?
Yeah, that's another good thing about VAR, it will act as a deterrent. Like those staff members that hang around self-checkout tills pretending to offer assistance, when we all know they're only there to 'dissuade' you from walking out of the store without paying for your shit.
I think VAR in itself is a good thing, but I think the anticlimax of VAR checking on a goal just scored, is a real problem for the atmosphere at games, especially for match goers.
They need to stop checking every goal, the crowd will stop celebrating a goal until VAR says so, and the celebrations will never be the same.
They need to leave goals alone unless the ref/linesman says "I'm not sure about that, may have been a foul/offside, check it please"
There will still be things that happen that the ref/linesman don't see, but that's football.
They need to stop checking every goal, the crowd will stop celebrating a goal until VAR says so, and the celebrations will never be the same.
They need to leave goals alone unless the ref/linesman says "I'm not sure about that, may have been a foul/offside, check it please"
There will still be things that happen that the ref/linesman don't see, but that's football.
While it's a good thing that correct decisions are being made I hate the fact that the 1st thing I do now instead of cheering a goal is look to the big screen.
Saying that, the West Ham cheers when the goal was disallowed yesterday were probably as loud as if they had scored themselves.
Personally hate it but it's here and it's here to stay.
Saying that, the West Ham cheers when the goal was disallowed yesterday were probably as loud as if they had scored themselves.
Personally hate it but it's here and it's here to stay.
This daylight thing is a good idea in theory but...
First requirement is for the bloke with the flag to be able to tell. He has a better chance of looking across a line of people & seeing a bit of the wrong shirt emerging to the right than he does waiting for & judging when the 'daylight' is sufficient to justify a raise of the flag, surely?
I think the EPL have gone for mainly line calls & nonsense like encroachment to break us in gently. They will be backing the refs in the main who will be making fewer & fewer decisions. Everything favours the stronger attacking team, defenders can do naff all. Welcome to non contact, barely competitive football for a lot of the time. We're pretending that all the decisions are right now.
Whether it could be conclusively shown that the player was offside without freezeframing or drawing daft lines on a screen seems fair. You’re never going to get a consensus on anything in football so let’s just go with common sense.
But offside is about the one thing they can guarantee to be right. Wait until the comedy penalties of Cheaty Mo are allowed to stand or he gets a load more of them,
.Rice did on the retaken pen. You are giving footballers too much credit.
Rice cleared the ball from the rebound. He denied another goal scoring opportunity.
Instant replay is the reason I don’t watch American sports anymore. It did ruin the games when it became too much. After every big play in the NFL players and fans have to hold their breath. That’s what is happening in the PL after every goal and it’s week one. Do you really need to see if a player is offside by an inch?Say it louder for the moaners in the back. American sports have had replays for years. Free flowing games like basketball have not had the “beauty” sucked out of it due to officials reviewing a call/play. This gatekeeping mentality is so tiresome and screams of “Well back in my day footballers smoked cigarettes, drank on the pitch, and played with leather balls filled with the bones of the animal whose skin was used for the ball.
The need to back off a bit and make it just blatant missed calls. Pretty sad the VAR is going to be the conversations going forward rather than the game. Getting “ used to it” is not the answer. It needs to be scaled back. The problem is the genie is out of the bottle. It’s only take over games more and more. And it’s also going to evolve to include even more trivial calls that will ruin the flow of the game.
Offside is a similar concept. Technically you're either offside or your not albeit slightly harder to determine.. though VAR must be confident it can decide even the most marginal ones now.
Just watching GoS how was that hand ball in the Watford match not a pen?
It will evolve to include even more for sure. And that’s not even the part that bothers me most. It’s going to dictate changes to the rules of the game.
American football now, is not played under the same rules it was played even last year. And it’s undergone rule changes seemingly every other offseason. To the point where the tone fans and pundits is literally, “I don’t know what is or is not a catch.”
In basketball now, the close of games often becomes tedious, and everyone is trying to figure out what the shooter’s “safe landing space” is.
The sport of football will change because VAR dictates that it do so, not because fans or coaches or players want it. Rules will likely change 3 times in the next decade, meaning none of us (myself included) have a clue what it will look like.
Evolving the rules of a game built for entertainment is fine. Doing so at the behest of a constantly changing and imperfect technology is amazing person I admire like and weak minded.
The pitch is a stage made for live performers who are the very best in the world at what they do (refs included). We’ve effectively just decided we’d rather buy tickets to a rehearsal where the director can shout CUT! and halt the flow in order to achieve perfection as he sees it, rather than letting his audience interpret on their own.
I legitimately do not care what criticism comes my way on this front. I know that the ones all for it will be the ones that flip flop on all the rules changes to follow.
Sure! But the goal line technology is instant. A VAR review kills the momentum.