General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

[WackyWengerWorld]

Difference is, she would have thrown herself at Cameron and he can't really push her away & tell her to feck off, can he?

That isn't what happened he went over to her and shook her hand. I don't see how it's different. McDonnell was at a socialist rally and some of their ideological uninformed unread types fly a flag of what they wrongly think is a socialist utopia.

In practice are Corbyn and co in anyway backing oppressive regimes and wanting to impose oppresses practises? Or in fact do they take the opposite stance?

There's a conscious focus to divert the election away from policies and focus it on irrelevant mockery and meaningless slogans.

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

Just consider Jeremy Corbyn having to make huge decisions on our behalf or having to represent the UK on the global stage. If he has to take us to war or lead us through another recession.

Theresa May isn't the most palatable but we will still have a country left at the end of it. Voting for the current Labour party is a complete roll of the dice.

I imagine Corbyn wouldn't take us into a war or trade war, which May will (the latter) and which we will all pay a high price for. She's showing zero intelligence in her management of our largest trading partner. Her policies will bring a mass recession and she even knows it and that's why she's holding the election now and not in 2 years after Brexit and the inevitable recession hits.

 

[Pexbo]

There is something very creepy and weird about the Tory campaign



Apparently their reporters were also locked in a room!

They've got absolutely zero faith in her when it comes to speaking. I've never seen anything like it. They're desperately trying to avoid her being challenged in any way shape or form because they're confident she'd win the election even if she went on holiday for the next two months so their entire plan is "don't do anything because doing nothing increases the chance of a monumental feck up".

 

[Cheesy]

There is something very creepy and weird about the Tory campaign



Apparently their reporters were also locked in a room!

Yeah, Cameron and co were a bit out of touch but at least sort of did cringeworthy thing to appear normal like pretending to like football, or putting on high-vis jackets in factories and putting their sleeves up. May just seems sort of disconnected from reality, appalled at the prospect anyone might question her.

 

[DenisIrwin]

There is something very creepy and weird about the Tory campaign



Apparently their reporters were also locked in a room!

There are many complex reasons for locking reporters in a room - or a strong stable for that matter.

 

[PedroMendez]

Next I tell ya they will be after our precious bodily fluids.

Pedro you don't half speak some shite at times.

You are just unwilling to acknowledge the obvious, because that would be rather inconvenient. Not even far-right racist politicians are willing to attend a rally with Swastikas and Hitler portraits. You have to go even führer to the right to see that. Yet part of the fringe far-left don’t have any reservations to do the equivalence on their side of the spectrum and part of the organized far-left is willing to tolerate this.

That isn't what happened he went over to her and shook her hand. I don't see how it's different. McDonnell was at a socialist rally and some of their ideological uninformed unread types fly a flag of what they wrongly think is a socialist utopia.

In practice are Corbyn and co in anyway backing oppressive regimes and wanting to impose oppresses practises? Or in fact do they take the opposite stance?

There's a conscious focus to divert the election away from policies and focus it on irrelevant mockery and meaningless slogans.

Is the person on the picture Katie Hopkins? She is a horrible person, but trying to draw an equivalence between her (views) and those of Stalin&Co is ridiculous and hopefully just an honest mistake. The occasions are also totally different. Posing for a social photo is something entirely different than talking on a public rally.

But more importantly: Yes, Corbyn did excuse and cheer for dictators, because they are his “socialist comrades”. He lauded Fidel, shook hands with Chavez, appeared on Maduro’s propaganda channel and said many stupid things over the years. That’s just ideological delusion.

Neither Corbyn’s nor Mcdonnell’s views are similar to those of Labour. In fact social democrats usually got cleansed once far-left socialists got in power. Social democrats have a proud tradition of trying to resist dictatorship. Yet in the end these two clowns are leading the party. That’s a problem. There is only one decent way to deal with this: Acknowledge the feck-up (and move on). Trying to play it down makes the party look even worse.

 

[villain]

Just consider Jeremy Corbyn having to make huge decisions on our behalf or having to represent the UK on the global stage. If he has to take us to war or lead us through another recession.

Theresa May isn't the most palatable but we will still have a country left at the end of it. Voting for the current Labour party is a complete roll of the dice.

Like I said, there is nothing that could make me vote for Theresa May, especially given how easy the Tories have had it since 2010.

 

[711]

I support increasing the number of police, and I'm willing to pay more tax for it if necessary. It's really annoyed me that for decades the Tories have proclaimed themselves the 'party of law and order' whilst doing feck-all about the sort of crime that affects ordinary people, and even cutting the numbers to make things worse. Hopefully this Labour policy, coming out before the Tory manifesto, will bounce them into making some sort of proposal of their own, if Abbott hasn't wrecked the whole idea by being so completely useless. Again.

 

[Sassy Colin]

That isn't what happened he went over to her and shook her hand. I don't see how it's different. McDonnell was at a socialist rally and some of their ideological uninformed unread types fly a flag of what they wrongly think is a socialist utopia.

In practice are Corbyn and co in anyway backing oppressive regimes and wanting to impose oppresses practises? Or in fact do they take the opposite stance?

There's a conscious focus to divert the election away from policies and focus it on irrelevant mockery and meaningless slogans.

That's the way of the WackyWorld these days, unfortunately.

 

[11101]

What? May is awful, she demands absolutely no respect from foreign politicians. She can't even handle some journalists asking her questions. There's a decent chance Corbyn might be shite too but from what I've seen he can actually hold a conversation without resorting to mindless catchphrases.

Didn't Corbyn begin a speech facing the wrong way the other week?

A position like that is as much about judgement of who you have around you as your own ability. Diane Abbott and John McDonnell are about as bad as you could possibly get. Their appointment was bad enough but his refusal to accept it and get rid of them is even more damning.

 

[Sweet Square]

You are just unwilling to acknowledge the obvious, because that would be rather inconvenient. Not even far-right racist politicians are willing to attend a rally with Swastikas and Hitler portraits. You have to go even führer to the right to see that. Yet part of the fringe far-left don’t have any reservations to do the equivalence on their side of the spectrum and part of the organized far-left is willing to tolerate this.

You do know Mcdonnell didn't bring the flags. Mcdonnell talked at a rally(May Day Rally) which of course was going to have far left/communist/anti American flags(I image thats why the Syrian flag was there), none of this makes him Stalin or Steve Bannon of the Left.

Again we conversation when you said Melenchon was going to be the next Hugo Chavez. Your political viewpoint towards the Left is just a tad......... extreme.

 

[villain]

Actually @11101 I lied, I might consider voting for Theresa May if she willingly took part in TV Debates and didn't rely on a script.

At the moment she seems content to hide and cower in fear of having to actually engage with the public until the election is over.

 

[Ubik]

You do know Mcdonnell didn't bring the flags. I was once at a local football game and someone brought out a Syrian Flag and unlike you I didn't leave with disgust, I really didn't care. John Mcdonnell talked at a rally(May Day Rally) which of course was going to have far left/communist/anti American flags(I image thats why the Syrian flag was there), none of this makes him Stalin or Steve Bannon of the Left.

Again we conversation when you said Melenchon was going to be the next Hugo Chavez. Your political viewpoint towards the Left is just a tad.........well extreme.

He's standing to be chancellor of the exchequer. He has previously thrown the little red book across the chamber. He has said he wants to "ferment" the downfall of capitalism. He should be trying to avoid making speeches in front of hammer and sickle flags during an election campaign.

 

[Unmutual]

This Tory government is selling weapons to Saudi Arabia to kill civilians in Yemen. Yet people are going bat shit because Mcdonnell is caught standing next to a Syrian flag. It's a bit odd.

As false equivalences go, that is spectacular.

 

[The Purley King]

The election so far reminds me so much of 'The Thick of it'
You can just imagine teams of advisors listening to the Abbott interview and shouting words like "Omnishambles' from behind the glass.
Likewise with May, "just whatever the feck you do don't let anyone ask her a question, or come within 50 yards of her"

Would be so entertaining if they filmed it
I'd vote for anyone with Malcolm Tucker in their team.........

 

[Dan]

The election so far reminds me so much of 'The Thick of it'
You can just imagine teams of advisors listening to the Abbott interview and shouting words like "Omnishambles' from behind the glass.
Likewise with May, "just whatever the feck you do don't let anyone ask her a question, or come within 50 yards of her"

Would be so entertaining if they filmed it
I'd vote for anyone with Malcolm Tucker in their team.........

They need to bring that show back.

 

[11101]

Actually @11101 I lied, I might consider voting for Theresa May if she willingly took part in TV Debates and didn't rely on a script.

At the moment she seems content to hide and cower in fear of having to actually engage with the public until the election is over.

At the moment it's a smart tactic. Stay quiet and let the opposition make fools of themselves.

 

[Sweet Square]

He's standing to be chancellor of the exchequer. He has previously thrown the little red book across the chamber. He has said he wants to "ferment" the downfall of capitalism. He should be trying to avoid making speeches in front of hammer and sickle flags during an election campaign.

Wasn't that a(Awful)dig at the Tories for their relationship with the ''government'' in China.

As for the speech, it was a May Day rally. What are people expecting, of course these sorts of flags where going to be there and of course Mcdonnell was going to give the speech reguarldess. People can't expect a man who as you said wants to ferment the downfall of capitalism to be put off by some hammer and sickle flags.

 

[villain]

At the moment it's a smart tactic. Stay quiet and let the opposition make fools of themselves.

Sure, but it wont continue to work in the run up to the election nor does it instil confidence long term, especially given the "strong, stable leadership" rubbish they spout.

Though i'm sure the media will continue to focus on Corbyn's un-ironed shirt or something equally as benign instead.

 

[Dobba]

As false equivalences go, that is spectacular.

You're right, because apparently only the flags are a story worth talking about and considering before walking into the polling station. Those civilians won't bomb themselves, you know, so we might as well be the ones making the wonga out of it.

Quick, look, his tie isn't done up properly!

 

[Ubik]

Wasn't that a(Awful)dig at the Tories for their relationship with the ''government'' in China.

As for the speech, it was a May Day rally. What are people expecting, of course these sorts of flags where going to be there and of course Mcdonnell was going to give the speech reguarldess. People can't expect a man who as you said wants to ferment the downfall of capitalism to be put off by some hammer and sickle flags.

This is exactly the problem. Luckily most people don't know much about John McDonnell at the moment, but I worry that is going to change over the next month.

 

[Cheesy]

Wasn't that a(Awful)dig at the Tories for their relationship with the ''government'' in China.

As for the speech, it was a May Day rally. What are people expecting, of course these sorts of flags where going to be there and of course Mcdonnell was going to give the speech reguarldess. People can't expect a man who as you said wants to ferment the downfall of capitalism to be put off by some hammer and sickle flags.

And likewise, people aren't going to want a man who wants to ferment the downfall of capitalism to be the Chancellor.

 

[Adisa]

There is something very creepy and weird about the Tory campaign



Apparently their reporters were also locked in a room!

They're trying desperately to hide what an absolute weapon she is. I've seen more charisma in a spoon. What comes out from her mouth never has any substance.

 

[Unmutual]

You're right, because apparently only the flags are a story worth talking about and considering before walking into the polling station. Those civilians won't bomb themselves, you know, so we might as well be the ones making the wonga out of it.

Quick, look, his tie isn't done up properly!

You're never slow to double down on bullshit are you

 

[Dobba]

You're never slow to double down on bullshit are you

I'd be worried if I did something you agreed with. So, thank you.

 

[Unmutual]

I'd be worried if I did something you agreed with. So, thank you.

Wait, so you want to continue arms sales to Saudi? That's confusing.

Or, maybe, you're just jumping to conclusions..?

 

[fishfingers15]

Actually @11101 I lied, I might consider voting for Theresa May if she willingly took part in TV Debates and didn't rely on a script.

At the moment she seems content to hide and cower in fear of having to actually engage with the public until the election is over.

I have no idea why so many of our political leaders are elected on their oratorial skills.

 

[altodevil]

I have no idea why so many of our political leaders are elected on their oratorial skills.

They shouldn't be the brains behind the operation, they just need to be able to convey their parties message and be able to communicate with foreign countries. Orating skill ranks highly for a lot of people and rightly so.

 

[PedroMendez]

You do know Mcdonnell didn't bring the flags. Mcdonnell talked at a rally(May Day Rally) which of course was going to have far left/communist/anti American flags(I image thats why the Syrian flag was there), none of this makes him Stalin or Steve Bannon of the Left.

Again we conversation when you said Melenchon was going to be the next Hugo Chavez. Your political viewpoint towards the Left is just a tad......... extreme.

My political viewpoint towards the far-left is not extreme at all. I get along perfectly fine with communists, anarchists, socialists or persons of any other ideological leaning as long as they are willing to acknowledge the historic reality of their tradition and denounce authoritarianism. That’s the same standard that I expect from any political movement. I made perfectly valid arguments why and in which way I see Melenchon as Chavez 2.0. @2cents posted a link in the "French election" thread that goes into details. You are just ignoring all of that, because it doesn’t fit your one-sided narrative. I don’t even like to look at politics from the left-right spectrum, but from a view of rationality vs irrationality. Not acknowledging reality is fairly irrational.

I have written a bit about different leftist traditions in Latin America, but to a limited extend the same is true for Europe: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/venezuela-–-socialist-paradise-on-the-verge-of-collapse.417529/#post-19211235

Both Corbyn and McD fall on the wrong side of this spectrum, which is unfortunate.

What would be your reaction when May speaks in front of a crowd with Swastika flags, and portraits of Mussolini, Pétain, Franco and Hideki? You’d honestly tell me, that this wouldn’t bother you? It should.

 

[villain]

I have no idea why so many of our political leaders are elected on their oratorial skills.

Everybody has different reasons for voting for/supporting who they want to support.
I was responding in relation to prior conversation about who I intend to vote for, and that I don't foresee any reason to vote for May.

Oratory skills are important (for me) because I believe as a politician you must be able to articulate your thoughts, policies and ideas in an effective manner for the very people who you are representing. Plus, charisma, personality and likeability can naturally attract people to want to engage with you and considering politics is so deeply intertwined with power, I think it's important that the people we give power to, are actually inherently relateable, good, honest, likeable etc
And since we're never going to actually get to "know" these people intimately to really understand what they are like, how they come across on TV, in debates, in public appearances etc present the best way for us to judge their character.

You could have the greatest policies in the world but if people don't like you, don't want to listen to you, can't understand what you're saying etc then who is really going to engage with you?

 

[Dobba]

Wait, so you want to continue arms sales to Saudi? That's confusing.

Thankfully no, I'm not a Tory running on a 'strong and stable' platform. I just find it odd that it's not a major talking point of this election, particularly given that the Labour party have come out as saying they'll block sales of weapons to human rights abusing countries like Saudi Arabia in the last few days.

We should get Cadbury to sponsor every bomb sold, stick some random left wing flag on them or make them do interviews on LBC, that way it might become a talking point for more than a few left wingers on Twitter.

 

[Unmutual]

 

[Ubik]

I seem to share a trait with her in that our faces lapse into some kind of grimace whenever a camera is in the vicinity.

AND YET

 

[Sassy Colin]

She's in France, that's a Corniche!

 

[Cassidy]

This Tory government is selling weapons to Saudi Arabia to kill civilians in Yemen. Yet people are going bat shit because Mcdonnell is caught standing next to a Syrian flag. It's a bit odd.

Pretty much.

 

[Blind]

Labour just don't help themselves at all, it doesn't help that Corbyn's apathetic to most of it and has stories like his IRA sympathies that he's never going to shake off no matter how much the PR team work on it.

 

[Jippy]

Didn't Corbyn begin a speech facing the wrong way the other week?

A position like that is as much about judgement of who you have around you as your own ability. Diane Abbott and John McDonnell are about as bad as you could possibly get. Their appointment was bad enough but his refusal to accept it and get rid of them is even more damning.

Is that true? He didn't notice he was facing a wall and there were loads of people behind him?

 

[ThierryHenry]

Wasn't that a(Awful)dig at the Tories for their relationship with the ''government'' in China.

As for the speech, it was a May Day rally. What are people expecting, of course these sorts of flags where going to be there and of course Mcdonnell was going to give the speech reguarldess. People can't expect a man who as you said wants to ferment the downfall of capitalism to be put off by some hammer and sickle flags.

This seems a step removed from the 'Corbyn isn't radical left' argument...

 

[SteveJ]

I cannot believe that people vote for politicians who seem to need a thinktank's advice in order to do simple things like make a gesture, or appear like ordinary folks. Cameron and Osborne were bad enough for this, but May is even worse. How the f*ck can voters think these animated mannequins have the people's best interests at heart?

 

[bri2013]

Didn't Corbyn begin a speech facing the wrong way the other week?

A position like that is as much about judgement of who you have around you as your own ability. Diane Abbott and John McDonnell are about as bad as you could possibly get. Their appointment was bad enough but his refusal to accept it and get rid of them is even more damning.

He was probably told to get the electorate behind him.