General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
finneh said:
Agreed but his point is still pretty valid. It's very much the "yea but they spent £200m this Summer so everyone expected them to win, no one expected us to only lose by this many".
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Yeah but you're comparing politics with football. In football there is one loser and one winner. Nothing more, nothing less. Politics isn't like that. In this black and white world of politics why is May (the apparent winner) who is squirming to hold onto her job?

It's worth noting that the Tories didn't 'win' either.
 
@Nick 0208 Ldn

Will you be complaining about the English votes for English laws thing now the Tories will be relying on Northern Irish votes to carry legislation?
 
I don't think political goalposts have ever moved this much in 7 weeks. Back then and the months before we were branded a bunch of entryist trots who were going to drive the party off the political cliff edge and Corbyn was going to lose Wales, what left of Scotland and large chunks of England with no support from the so called 'big names' in the party. Now, it turns out, it was Labour's election to win all along.
 
Dobba said:
I don't think political goalposts have ever moved this much in 7 weeks. Back then and the months before we were branded a bunch of entryist trots who were going to drive the party off the political cliff edge and Corbyn was going to lose Wales, what left of Scotland and large chunks of England with no support from the so called 'big names' in the party. Now, it turns out, it was Labour's election to win all along.
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But they didnt win... a larger majority of the electorate trusts Theresa May and the Conservatives than him... how can this be seen as a victory for Labour?
 
Dobba said:
I don't think political goalposts have ever moved this much in 7 weeks. Back then and the months before we were branded a bunch of entryist trots who were going to drive the party off the political cliff edge and Corbyn was going to lose Wales, what left of Scotland and large chunks of England with no support from the so called 'big names' in the party. Now, it turns out, it was Labour's election to win all along.
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If the election was a few months later there's no doubt in my mind Corbyn would be PM. The momentum shift was massive. May was too busy wanting to take us back to the stone age with human rights scrapping, internet censorship and barbaric animal cruelty. It's then no surprise people were put off by her.
 
Dobba said:
I don't think political goalposts have ever moved this much in 7 weeks. Back then and the months before we were branded a bunch of entryist trots who were going to drive the party off the political cliff edge and Corbyn was going to lose Wales, what left of Scotland and large chunks of England with no support from the so called 'big names' in the party. Now, it turns out, it was Labour's election to win all along.
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Shame about the last two tv debates, lacked a bit of momentum and looked tired.

Still, i think the real winner was the manifesto. I have no idea how much involvement Corbyn had, but it read like someone who had waited 20 years to be able put theirs ideas on paper - NOT the same manifesto as the opposition with a left slant.

And yet, as happy as Labour are, I'm fairly devestated. Letting those even further right of the tories into government is scary.
 
Dobba said:
I don't think political goalposts have ever moved this much in 7 weeks. Back then and the months before we were branded a bunch of entryist trots who were going to drive the party off the political cliff edge and Corbyn was going to lose Wales, what left of Scotland and large chunks of England with no support from the so called 'big names' in the party. Now, it turns out, it was Labour's election to win all along.
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In six months time when the coalition of chaos falls apart we will be there to pick up the pieces.
 
I am not sure why both parties were experiencing contrasting signals on the doorstep.

Tory members, canvassers and volunteers were not raising the alarm that the party was in big trouble in the seats they were expecting to win to get a big majority. Looks like they were getting told the right stuff from the voters on the doorsteps.

Labour canvassers, members, etc were sounding the alarm that the situation was dire and they were expecting an annihilation. Its like they were not getting positive feedback on the doorsteps. I know the student vote came out strong, but the labour people would have had them tallied in to their data and estimates.
 
Full Member said:
But they didnt win... a larger majority of the electorate trusts Theresa May and the Conservatives than him... how can this be seen as a victory for Labour?
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What was Labour's goal last night. Stopping The Tories from increasing their majority. They didn't only do that but pushed the Tories into a minority government.

Stopping the increased majority would have been a win. Pushing the Tories into a minority government is beyond expectations. It's a platform on which Labour can build.

If you think that a Tory/DUP coalition is a Tory win form where they started before last night then go a head and celebrate.
 
Fergies Gum said:
I am not sure why both parties were experiencing contrasting signals on the doorstep.

Tory members, canvassers and volunteers were not raising the alarm that the party was in big trouble in the seats they were expecting to win to get a big majority. Looks like they were getting told the right stuff from the voters on the doorsteps.

Labour canvassers, members, etc were sounding the alarm that the situation was dire and they were expecting an annihilation. Its like they were not getting positive feedback on the doorsteps. I know the student vote came out strong, but the labour people would have had them tallied in to their data and estimates.
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They can only track those voters they're aware of. As well as the younger voters, more Ukippers went back than anticipated which may well not have been picked up, and Tory remainers in London in particular would've gone under the radar.
 
Fergies Gum said:
I am not sure why both parties were experiencing contrasting signals on the doorstep.

Tory members, canvassers and volunteers were not raising the alarm that the party was in big trouble in the seats they were expecting to win to get a big majority. Looks like they were getting told the right stuff from the voters on the doorsteps.

Labour canvassers, members, etc were sounding the alarm that the situation was dire and they were expecting an annihilation. Its like they were not getting positive feedback on the doorsteps. I know the student vote came out strong, but the labour people would have had them tallied in to their data and estimates.
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On today's Guardian politics podcast they discussed this - your final sentence is the likely difference there. They claimed that you rarely get to talk to young people when you go door knocking/ canvasing in that way, so the canvassing data was likely hugely underrating the under-30 vote. The answer seemed oversimplistic though - surely that's a very obvious issue with the internal data, that they would be able to correct?
 
Fully Fledged said:
What was Labour's goal last night. Stopping The Tories from increasing their majority. They didn't only do that but pushed the Tories into a minority government.

Stopping the increased majority would have been a win. Pushing the Tories into a minority government is beyond expectations. It's a platform on which Labour can build.

If you think that a Tory/DUP coalition is a Tory win form where they started before last night then go a head and celebrate.
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They are still in charge of the country though, and will likely be for the next 5 years. Seems like a pretty clear cut victory to me. Yes its not a majority, but if the public really thought Corbyns policies were so extraordinary, why is he not in power today?
 
Pink Moon said:
Yeah but you're comparing politics with football. In football there is one loser and one winner. Nothing more, nothing less. Politics isn't like that. In this black and white world of politics why is May (the apparent winner) who is squirming to hold onto her job?

It's worth noting that the Tories didn't 'win' either.
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The Tories will be in Government but just like a Bayern Munich manager winning the Bundesliga by 1 point: they won but the manager is still under threat. Every other team has still done worse, however. Irrespective of expectations.
Fully Fledged said:
Nobody won so they are actually second losers but meh.
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The winner is the party who give the Queen's speech and are in Government. Man City winning the league on goal difference will never be remembered as "nobody winning".
Sassy Colin said:
The 2nd place trophy?
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Tbf Corbyn has gotten CL Football so the board are unlikely to sack him. Expectations will grow next year though.

Is it depressing or hilarious that Labour are Spurs and the Tories are Bayern Munich?
 
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Berbaclass said:
Can she take the strain capn?

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Dobba said:
I don't think political goalposts have ever moved this much in 7 weeks. Back then and the months before we were branded a bunch of entryist trots who were going to drive the party off the political cliff edge and Corbyn was going to lose Wales, what left of Scotland and large chunks of England with no support from the so called 'big names' in the party. Now, it turns out, it was Labour's election to win all along.
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Props to you for continuing to believing in Labour policies driven by Corbyn. Although I don't live in the UK and this election doesn't affect me directly, I was dreading the results. While it's not ideal that Conservatives will form the government, it's definitely a relative victory and a self-inflicted wound by Tories. I won't be surprised if another election is called soon and it'll be interesting to see the path Corbyn chooses then. He has been vindicated this election and interesting times ahead on how to increase the Labour base.
 
Full Member said:
They are still in charge of the country though, and will likely be for the next 5 years. Seems like a pretty clear cut victory to me. Yes its not a majority, but if the public really thought Corbyns policies were so extraordinary, why is he not in power today?
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Ran out of time, the Tories were spiralling downwards, they are lucky the vote came when it did
 
The tory voters trying to make it out as a win, yeah losing a majority is definitely a win :lol:

Neither party has won yet but the one who actually won seats on the night had a better result than the one who lost seats ffs.
 
Ubik said:
They can only track those voters they're aware of. As well as the younger voters, more Ukippers went back than anticipated which may well not have been picked up, and Tory remainers in London in particular would've gone under the radar.
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The detailed exit poll data may show why Labour fared better with the ukip vote, but i think the social care and double/triple lock changes made them switch to Labour.

ThierryHenry said:
On today's Guardian politics podcast they discussed this - your final sentence is the likely difference there. They claimed that you rarely get to talk to young people when you go door knocking/ canvasing in that way, so the canvassing data was likely hugely underrating the under-30 vote. The answer seemed oversimplistic though - surely that's a very obvious issue with the internal data, that they would be able to correct?
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You'd think so
 
People mocking those who were hoping the Tories won't get a majority and pointing out Labour are still ways off governing should think of the following:

When Utd draw a game we should win, it feels a lot better when the remaining rivals lose against relegation fodder. Human beings are creatures of relativity and relatively speaking, Labour came up trumps.

From a 100+ majority for the Cons and a +20% lead to a 2% gap and no overall majority for the Cons is definitely something to be talked about. Without the crazy performance in Scotland, the Tories would be out of government altogether.

It feels like that time Slippy G gave the title to Citeh. Liverpool had to get a draw to win the title but they decided to risk it stupidly by attacking and blew the whole thing away.
 
Sassy Colin said:
The 2nd place trophy.

Like I said, the RAWK of the political World.
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I know what you mean in terms of celebrating not being in government as if it were being in government (the RAWK comparison). But it's not like that. The celebration is relative to expectation and the rise and fall of political capital. Labour's fortunes have risen, the Tories' fortunes have dwindled. Relative to before the election, which party do you think would take these results? Labour is the only one who'd be happy, except perhaps the DUP.
 
Lastwolf said:
Why do people continue to vote Sinn Fein in these elections, when they know they will never ever take up their seats, Northern Ireland gonna Northern Ireland?

What I'd like to believe is that their reign is a hangover from the peace agreement, the electorate polarized from the two relatively moderate parties on both sides to the hardline. but after a decade and change the UUP are never coming back and they have their own problems (also terrorist linked if you go by the standard of today).

Its the sad state of affairs of Northern Irish politics, I had hoped people like the Alliance party were gaining ground of the "unionist" voting areas but they shot themselves in the foot over a flag.
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Because an awful lot of people in the north know that the way forward is not through Westminister and actually want to unite Ireland.
 
When you consider how many bad elections Labour has had in the last few years, even as recently as last month when the horrendous local election results looked to be confirming the horrendous polling, it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to realise why people are happier. I've been working on the assumption for two years, based on all available evidence, that the party was more or less guaranteed to lose seats in the next election and the Tories would greatly expand their majority.

So while a loss can't be a win, it can at least be an away CL game that you'd been losing three nil until you got two late goals.
 
Will Theresa May be marching through the streets of Belfast on the 12th?
 
Minimalist said:
Seriously don't waste your energy.

I'm a liberal unionist and have literally no one to vote for (that would win). It's just tribal plain and simple. DUP stand against Sinn Fein and a United Ireland - for many, that's enough regardless of the rest of their policies. It is depressing if you focus on it too long.
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Yeah I heard today that surveys had shown at least 1/3 of DUP voters actually support gay marriage, but still vote DUP just to oppose Sinn Fein.
 
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