The point is it's a natural instinct you cannot override. There was nothing he can do about it, professional footballer or not, it's the same when you hear a loud bang and you flinch. Some people have different levels of reaction. I suspect the slow motion replay of VAR made it look worse too, in real time there it's on him in a split second.
Gary Neville
- Thread starter jymufc20
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The point is it's a natural instinct you cannot override. There was nothing he can do about it, professional footballer or not, it's the same when you hear a loud bang and you flinch. Some people have different levels of reaction. I suspect the slow motion replay of VAR made it look worse too, in real time there it's on him in a split second.
It was embarrassing from Pogba. I fail to see how that or pointing it out is even controversial.
The other point is, he has history of doing it;being all too casual. He did it against Bournemouth, and then promptly missed a penalty of his own.
I can get that the game have caught up with him and am willing to accept that. He didn't look capable of getting forward yesterday and affescting the game in the way he did when he came on against Spurs.
On that point, maybe we're expecting too much right now. A week or so off and I think you'd see a better invigorated team
His reaction is massively different to everyone else's. Stone wall pen. If he done what tfm did, and it hit his hand its not a pen or at least not worthy of the same criticism
Bang on in his commentary, as always.
Gary Neville put another spot on commentary performance. It was a stupid thing for Pogba to do, and Neville was right to say so. He also offers excellent insight and knowledge.
People saying he enjoys his own voice, he's a frigging commentator not a librarian. Get a grip. It's like some people think it's Neville's fault we were sluggish for most of the game.
People saying he enjoys his own voice, he's a frigging commentator not a librarian. Get a grip. It's like some people think it's Neville's fault we were sluggish for most of the game.
You can't believe what you have typed, no way.
If it genuinely is "a natural instinct you cannot override", then how do you explain the thousands of players who have got hit in the face with a ball over the years?
It was a good 15-20 yards away. He could have took one for the team, he could have ducked. Anyone whos played footy at any level will know when a shot comes like that you have time to move. Neville was spot on, it was stupid for Pogba to save it with two hands. If he had time to get two solid hands on the ball, he had time to either duck or move to avoid giving a penalty away.
People are making a meal out of this. Was it a penalty? Yes. Was it unlucky? Yes too. It’s a reflex (I.e not something you can control) to project yourself. So he instinctively put his hand up. We can all moan that he shouldn’t have but it’s a reflex, not something that can be controlled. So whatever and move on.
And this is coming from someone with an irrational dislike of PP.
And this is coming from someone with an irrational dislike of PP.
Because they weren’t looking? Because they didn’t have time to react? Because their natural reaction is different?
Are you just being OTT for the sake of it? If someone is walking toward you down a street not doing anything obscure and then suddenly as they get close, they look to punch you, tell me - do you actively think or does your body just react? It reacts. And the next person might react different. Doesn’t mean you or they had any control over the first reflex motion.
He's put two hands up and saved it. He could have ducked. He could have took it on the head. Would Maguire have saved it?
It's not good enough. I like Pogba, I'm really glad he's back playing well every game, but last night he cost us 2 points and Neville was right to say what he did.
If he didn't have time to react, then how did he have time to spot the shot, and put both hands up in front of his face? It seems to me he had adequate time to react by putting his hands up.
Maguire, Bailly, Vidic, Stam, Keane, etc.... wouldn't have reacted by saving it with two full hands. I'm sorry.... Pogba chose to not take one for the team at the expense of a penalty.
I get that he cost us points but you’re missing the point. You’re absolutely right that all of those things are valid, possible alternatives. But when you say “he could have” - this is the bit that’s missing the point. His reaction to put his hands up was a reflex. I don’t think I need to tell you what a reflex is but you don’t control reflexes. Sure, could he train himself so that in future his natural reaction is different and he doesn’t stick his hands up? Sure. And yeah you could even say he should have trained himself or built up balls for it already. Valid points. But any inclination that he made an active choice to put his hands there is fundamentally wrong.
It's a reflex. You can't control it. Like when you see TV reporters in war zones jumping when a bomb goes off nearby but the soldiers don't move, it's different for everybody and it can be conditioned. But it can never be controlled.
Bullshit. Pogba didn’t choose anything. It was a reflex. Yeah those players wouldn’t have done the same thing because they have balls and so their reflexes are different. If you don’t think it was a reflex then fine, your view stacks up. But I believe it was, and neither of us can prove otherwise.
Your first para - Pogba was looking, he had loads of time to react. He wasn't switched on and tuned into the game, so his natural reaction was that of a coward.
Does that answer those questions?
Your second para - I might be OTT but it's because I am genuinely pissed off, he is an absolute liability and has been a complete flop despite all of his obvious talent. It is infuriating, and looks like it will cost us big time this season.
Your comparison to being punched by a randomer on the street is absolutely ridiculous. Nobody expects a punch on the street. It seems only Pogba doesn't expect a football on a football pitch.
Loads of footballers control that reflex in every game, every day.
Are you honestly, genuinely, comparing the shock of a bomb exploding nearby to the shock of a football coming your way on a football pitch, in a free kick situation, when you are standing between the ball and the goal?
Pogba apologists will go through any mental gymnastics possible it seems.
In that example you are not expecting a punch. Pogba is in the middle a wall, the job of which is to block a shot. He's looking directly at the ball. There's no surprises as to what might happen. You put your hands over your nuts and get your forehead on it if you can.
If the game was mid-flow and the ball bounced strangely then fair enough, I can see why a player might react the way Pogba did.
I disagree. I believe Pogba made the choice to protect his face. He has the ability to control his body. I've seen different types of players take one in the face. Why don't they have this same "uncontrollable reflex"? I could list you 10+ players that would have taken one in the face. Pogba took a split second decision to put himself first ahead of the team. Why did he apologise to the dressing room if he had an "uncontrollable reflex"?
Criticism of Pogba for the pen is deserved, it was stupid and rash reaction, but it was instinct. If anyone thinks Pogba made a decision to handle the ball there then that’s naive. TFM literally has his hand in front of his face too, lots of penalties are given away every season with players raising there hands to protect themselves.
The thing with Neville is there is always a tone and it gets personal with Pogba. He makes it into a huge incident whenever it involves Pogba.
I can’t imagine had it been McT or Rashford that he wouldn’t have criticised them and said it was stupid or rash. But you can hear the hate in his voice, he wants Pogba to be in big,big trouble. Was such a strange comment to make.
The thing with Neville is there is always a tone and it gets personal with Pogba. He makes it into a huge incident whenever it involves Pogba.
I can’t imagine had it been McT or Rashford that he wouldn’t have criticised them and said it was stupid or rash. But you can hear the hate in his voice, he wants Pogba to be in big,big trouble. Was such a strange comment to make.
Ok, would Maguire have saved it with two hands? Honestly? Would Vidic? He'd have been knocked to the ground taking treatment for 5-10 minutes.
Why did he apologise to the team for handballing it? Why did they give the penalty? Why did former professionals who have all played the game labelled Pogba silly for deciding to handball over taking one in the face? Because they all know he has control over his body.
It's a football, not a nuclear blast. Not a car crash. A football.
Fight / flight people are different. You naming me 10 players that would have taken one in the face is you showing 10 players with similar traits. I could name you 10 players who wouldn’t and I’d be showing you 10 players with the opposite traits.
You might be right but you should not really put the "flight" people in the middle of a defensive wall. I'd rather have a shortarse like Fred if he's going to actually try and block the shot.
People with an agenda will see what they want. Pogba in a split second decision used his hands to protect his face which means he doesn't care about the team. People believe he had enough time to make that decision.
Why does he even bother turning up for work?
Why is that everyone who plays with him has nothing but positive things to say?
You lot would hound any good player out of town whether they deserve it or not.
Why does he even bother turning up for work?
Why is that everyone who plays with him has nothing but positive things to say?
You lot would hound any good player out of town whether they deserve it or not.
I don’t disagree with that. I used to hate going in walls. Then I’d have the guy next to me loving it smacking him in the face.
So that then proves my point. Pogba took the decision to handball it because he wasn't up for the fight with the ball. Which is why he apologised to the team and is why Neville was correct to criticise him.
He cost us a penalty in that moment of decision making.
If Neville irrationally hates Pogba, why is his first instinct to defend Pogba?
Jesus. Some people are so obsessed with being right, they try and turn anything to their agenda. Pathetic
There's a few folk on here if you told them that the grass is green they would argue with you all day long about it.
Maybe they're unfortunately colour blind?
You've got to die to get 3 points!
He is a good player and im
Not going to hound him out of town. In the same game he also pulled out of a fifty header on the half way line too, he’s either a shit arse or putting himself first. I’ve blocked free kicks and gone for headers in five aside ffs, never mind playing for Man Utd in the premier league.
Then it's not a reflex. I don't think you understand what a reflex is.
It can be controlled though. Take a look at it again. What was Pogba doing before the freekick was being taken?
The answer is: Looking away and not paying attention. When the freekick was being taken he wasnt ready therefore an instinct reaction instead of movingaway/being ready to head the ball away
This is not to do with Pogba, although I’d always side with neville over Pogba, Neville has a genuine love for Man Utd and I hear it in his voice when he talks about Pogba as Pogba has angered him in the past, rightly or wrongly.
This reflex thing though, aren’t they learned to be controlled? Ever been in a tyre fitters when the air pops and even though your expecting it cower like a bomb has gone off, so do the apprentices where as the old school tyre fitters have learned not to jump at the noise.
A very long way of saying I don’t agree with your post about reflex’s
Neville just comes across as an angry, bitter man now. Most of his opinions are nonsense, but he transmits them with conviction so everyone thinks he's top.
The way he was hammering United last night was ludicrous. He's obviously a big United fan and, like all of us, wanted them to play better, but he completely ignored the fact that these are extraordinary circumstances and that same XI has played 12 games in six weeks - something he never had to do in his own career because he had better-quality backup.
If he's going to rant at anybody, it should be Ole for his decision to play the stars in the Norwich and Chelsea cup games. But no, it's all the players' fault.
The way he talks you'd think he'd not even played Sunday league football, let alone 600 games at the top level.
The way he was hammering United last night was ludicrous. He's obviously a big United fan and, like all of us, wanted them to play better, but he completely ignored the fact that these are extraordinary circumstances and that same XI has played 12 games in six weeks - something he never had to do in his own career because he had better-quality backup.
If he's going to rant at anybody, it should be Ole for his decision to play the stars in the Norwich and Chelsea cup games. But no, it's all the players' fault.
The way he talks you'd think he'd not even played Sunday league football, let alone 600 games at the top level.
If I throw a ball at a basketball player, his first instinct will be to catch it. If I do the same thing to a footballer, it will be to trap it on his foot/chest/head (depending on how high it is).This is not to do with Pogba, although I’d always side with neville over Pogba, Neville has a genuine love for Man Utd and I hear it in his voice when he talks about Pogba as Pogba has angered him in the past, rightly or wrongly.
This reflex thing though, aren’t they learned to be controlled? Ever been in a tyre fitters when the air pops and even though your expecting it cower like a bomb has gone off, so do the apprentices where as the old school tyre fitters have learned not to jump at the noise.
A very long way of saying I don’t agree with your post about reflex’s
If a football player can't control his body to be able to avoid giving away a handball, he shouldn't be playing.
In the case of Pogba, he obviously can control himself. He had the time to duck, but lost concentration and moved his hands to handle the ball instead. That's on him.
thats basically 90% of football pundits. The calm measured ones like Fletcher or Hasselbank don't really appeal to the suits. Like most media now it's all about interactions(likes,clicks,shares)
I think you’re agreeing with me there