Gary Neville - Pundit

Agree with all your points on ESL but Gary is only angry about this version of destroying competition.

Where's the competion in the lower leagues when one club is half owned by a Singapore billionaire and the other half a bunch of multi millionaire celebs? Or when a midtable club is suddenly bought by a country. He's not fussed.

So I think its fair for people to point out how selective Gary and to be fair all the other pundits are.

He's good value but they could really do with getting an opposing point of view on there. Some contrast.

That’s a completely different - and extremely complicated - debate.

Which has nothing to do with establishing a new extremely lucrative competition from which a carefully selected small number of clubs can never be relegated, a status that no other club will ever be allowed to attain.

There’s no hypocrisy whatsoever in objecting to the latter while not objecting to the former.
 
I am conflicted by his “forget the six”.. “how them two have wangled their way in”. This contradicts the narrative. He is either against this breakaway or not. This rant is about justification of teams included which gives me the view that he is only challenging criteria.

I think the digs at Arsenal and Spurs were Neville's attempts at humour. Nothing too serious.
 
That’s a completely different - and extremely complicated - debate.

Which has nothing to do with establishing a new extremely lucrative competition from which a carefully selected small number of clubs can never be relegated, a status that no other club will ever be allowed to attain.

There’s no hypocrisy whatsoever in objecting to the latter while not objecting to the former.

I don't think it's that complicated at all.

Football in it's current state is a capitalist meritocracy even when those examples highlighted happen. These breakaway clubs are looking to establish a monopoly.
 
Agree with all your points on ESL but Gary is only angry about this version of destroying competition.

Where's the competion in the lower leagues when one club is half owned by a Singapore billionaire and the other half a bunch of multi millionaire celebs? Or when a midtable club is suddenly bought by a country. He's not fussed.

So I think its fair for people to point out how selective Gary and to be fair all the other pundits are.

He's good value but they could really do with getting an opposing point of view on there. Some contrast.
They point it out as if it invalidates his opinion. He’s angry at this particular form of competition. To argue back ‘well what about other things’ is a mix of whataboutism and tu quoque.

He’s making incredibly salient points but people are ignoring them purely because of their own criticisms.

If I say eating cows is bad for the environment, but I still eat fish. You can’t say ‘well I don’t trust your viewpoint about eating cows because you still eat fish’. Yes my eating of fish is still bad for the environment but does that invalidate the original argument that eating cows is bad for the environment? No it doesn’t. People expect someone to either agree totally or disagree totally with issues. People are far more nuanced than that.

People are saying by Gary being on Sky he should be quiet. You say they should bring someone else on. Who would then be on Sky and they’d then be invalidated.
 
In what way is investing money in a club to go through the league systems (by earning promotions through football on the pitch) to reach higher levels of competition, the same as starting a closed-competition that doesn't promote fair competition?

If Nev was criticizing City for spending money to win things then you'd have a point, but this is something completely different
“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Just because its not exactly the same thing doesnt mean he doesnt have blood on his hands. How is it fair that lower league clubs that have fought for years to get promoted then lose out to a billionaire with no link to the club or country. Is this fair play? You telling me thats not a closed system in a different coat. What chance do they have? None. 0. Nada.

Then there is the rest of them mouthing off with blood on their hands. Here we are fighting for black lives matter and womens rights but when the Saudi oil money with all their human rights violations comes in everyone is standing on top each other to get a share. What about the Man City Fair play violations. What about the cash for votes scandal's. What about the players demanding 500 a week. I can go on and on.

They are all in on it. Scheming and selling out. The only time they are in an uproar is when it affects their pocket. Neville is pissed because its less cash for him. Simple. If somehow he was promised a slot in the super league then you can guarantee he would be singing a very different song.
 
Gary Neville is a hero for speaking out. Him and Jamie Carragher both.

IF only everyone would be as vocal and loud as they are.
 
“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Just because its not exactly the same thing doesnt mean he doesnt have blood on his hands. How is it fair that lower league clubs that have fought for years to get promoted then lose out to a billionaire with no link to the club or country. Is this fair play? You telling me thats not a closed system in a different coat. What chance do they have? None. 0. Nada.

Then there is the rest of them mouthing off with blood on their hands. Here we are fighting for black lives matter and womens rights but when the Saudi oil money with all their human rights violations comes in everyone is standing on top each other to get a share. What about the Man City Fair play violations. What about the cash for votes scandal's. What about the players demanding 500 a week. I can go on and on.

They are all in on it. Scheming and selling out. The only time they are in an uproar is when it affects their pocket. Neville is pissed because its less cash for him. Simple. If somehow he was promised a slot in the super league then you can guarantee he would be singing a very different song.

If you have to lie and make up things to make a point, you lost the discussion before it started.

Next time: Make a point based in truth, not assumption.
 
If you have to lie and make up things to make a point, you lost the discussion before it started.

Next time: Make a point based in truth, not assumption.
Who are you calling a lier. Its a fans opinion forum. Im calling him a hypocrite based on the fact that he is committing similar atrocities against football and making an educated guess that if he was profiting from the super league then he would say different. Thats a fair assumption. Doesnt make me a lier.
 
All the people that appeased the Glazers will now continue to gaslight the United fans who have always called them out.

Fan who left in 2005 and started FC United were mocked and abused by people like Neville, Fergie and many others.... now they will all act like they have no culpability in supporting their regime for 15 years.
 
“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Just because its not exactly the same thing doesnt mean he doesnt have blood on his hands. How is it fair that lower league clubs that have fought for years to get promoted then lose out to a billionaire with no link to the club or country. Is this fair play? You telling me thats not a closed system in a different coat. What chance do they have? None. 0. Nada.

No because a) Salford haven't been promoted at every opportunity, because b) other teams have been able to play/compete against/beat them. What blood has he got on his hands? He hasn't stopped anyone from competing. The teams they've surpassed are still able to get promoted/relegated just the same. They haven't in any way effected the very fabric of the competition... that is what the ESL is doing, it is vastly different to the point where its barely comparable.
 
No because a) Salford haven't been promoted at every opportunity, because b) other teams have been able to play/compete against/beat them. What blood has he got on his hands? He hasn't stopped anyone from competing. The teams they've surpassed are still able to get promoted/relegated just the same. They haven't in any way effected the very fabric of the competition... that is what the ESL is doing, it is vastly different to the point where its barely comparable.
Stop trying to compare it. Its different I agree. But it still stands the corruption of football is systemic. Its rotten to the core. The ESL is just a symptom of its underlying disease. And the disease, the corruption, the greed has everything to do with Neville. It has everything to do with everyone who participated or stood by and did nothing. Pot calling the kettle black. If you want to state that ESL is worse then fair enough. But its like the guy who stabbed you shouting at the guy who ran over you with his car.
 
Stop trying to compare it. Its different I agree. But it still stands the corruption of football is systemic. Its rotten to the core. The ESL is just a symptom of its underlying disease. And the disease, the corruption, the greed has everything to do with Neville. It has everything to do with everyone who participated or stood by and did nothing. Pot calling the kettle black. If you want to state that ESL is worse then fair enough. But its like the guy who stabbed you shouting at the guy who ran over you with his car.
I don’t if I’m misunderstanding something, but how is Neville pouring his own money into Salford an example of greed? Has he made much return on his investment?
 
I love Gary, always have, and have never said a bad word about him on here.

But I'm wondering if he was offered the chance for Salford to be in that group of 15 'super' clubs that qualify automatically every season for the Super League, and all the extra millions that would come in for the club and also to his pocket, would he be singing a different tune suddenly?
Of course he would. He's as two faced as they come. Remember you have to give a manager time he spouted, yet sacked his own teams manager after 4 months and a week after they had won a trophy. Good player, not such a good bloke.
 
I don’t if I’m misunderstanding something, but how is Neville pouring his own money into Salford an example of greed? Has he made much return on his investment?
His backer is Peter Lim the billionaire. They are buying players for way more than any other clubs can afford. Peter lim and the rest of the celebrity footballers are not doing it for the love of football. They have a long term goal to get a return on their investment.
 
His backer is Peter Lim the billionaire. They are buying players for way more than any other clubs can afford. Peter lim and the rest of the celebrity footballers are not doing it for the love of football. They have a long term goal to get a return on their investment.
You honestly think that if Neville wanted to make money and was acting out of pure greed, that he would have chosen to buy Salford for that purpose?
 
But I thought we were taking about Gary Neville being a hypocrite?
If he brings in Peter Lim as a backer who is in it for the money. If he buys his way out of the league when even Scholes said they wouldn't do that at the beginning. When he sacks managers when preaching that sacking managers is bad. Does this not all point to a hypocrite? There is obviously a bond between Salford and United and the players do have some altruistic motives but every action they take is not all about the purity of football.
 
If he brings in Peter Lim as a backer who is in it for the money. If he buys his way out of the league when even Scholes said they wouldn't do that at the beginning. When he sacks managers when preaching that sacking managers is bad. Does this not all point to a hypocrite? There is obviously a bond between Salford and United and the players do have some altruistic motives but every action they take is not all about the purity of football.
Well that’s all well and good. I’m not trying to take the piss I was asking how this is an example of greed that’s all. Pouring a lot of his own resources into an investment without any guarantee of making a decent return doesn’t strike me as an act of ‘greed’.

Also I’m sure Gary Neville understands that sometimes you need to sack a manager. Just because he doesn’t agree with publicly stating a manager deserves to be sacked on Sky, does not mean he is against changing management when appropriate.
 
I think the digs at Arsenal and Spurs were Neville's attempts at humour. Nothing too serious.
Point taken. But I’d have thought he would have come out , guns blazing, scorning this whole episode.

I might be cynical but the silence from all quarters, not vehemently opposed to this ,smacks of positioning to benefit in any future deals.

As I said, after Klopp post match, you could clearly infer he knew what was going on and respect to him, he can’t come out with a contrary view.

Love Utd, but saddened this has been going on behind the scenes. I’m losing my passion for football. Little by little the soul of what I fell in love with all those years ago is being destroyed.
 
He did say he felt that Klopp and Pep have the best stature to make the real difference. OGS is a P.E. teacher remember? He kicks up a stink, they'll just drop him.

I think you're underestimating Ole. Klopp has no affiliation with Liverpool. He did win the league with them but he's currently what? 6th place?

Ole is a club legend and he's like the captain America version of legends (ie he's flawless). There's a strong minority of Ole outs out there but if the club treats Ole like shit then everyone would be pissed off. I certainly would. Our game is pretty boring but there's no doubt that performance wise he's overperforming. The club is taking a proper hammering PR wise. So unless Ole shits on Malcolm Glazer's grave and he spits in Joel Glazer's eye then his job is safe. I dare to say that Ole's job is safer then that of Klopp

Having said that I disagree with pundits trying to drag managers and players into this mess. After all the latter are employees and they stuck in abiding to what their bosses say.
 
I think you're underestimating Ole. Klopp has no affiliation with Liverpool. He did win the league with them but he's currently what? 6th place?

Ole is a club legend and he's like the captain America version of legends (ie he's flawless). There's a strong minority of Ole outs out there but if the club treats Ole like shit then everyone would be pissed off. I certainly would. Our game is pretty boring but there's no doubt that performance wise he's overperforming. The club is taking a proper hammering PR wise. So unless Ole shits on Malcolm Glazer's grave and he spits in Joel Glazer's eye then his job is safe. I dare to say that Ole's job is safer then that of Klopp

Having said that I disagree with pundits trying to drag managers and players into this mess. After all the latter are employees and they stuck in abiding to what their bosses say.
I hope you are right. I would love to see the bold :lol:
 
That’s a completely different - and extremely complicated - debate.

Which has nothing to do with establishing a new extremely lucrative competition from which a carefully selected small number of clubs can never be relegated, a status that no other club will ever be allowed to attain.

There’s no hypocrisy whatsoever in objecting to the latter while not objecting to the former.

I disagree.

The ESL formally shuts down competition.

Salford being funded by a bunch of billionaires and multi millionaires effectively does the same. Certainly at the lower league levels they started at.

It's different sure but not a million miles apart.

If we had proper financial fair play rules in place the big 6 couldn't get away with this but then neither could Salford.

I'm not arguing that Gary's opinion is invalidated or anything. Just that his selective outrage, like all the other pundits and associations, is too little too late.

If not the ESL they'll find another way to distort true competition and Gary and the rest will be ok with that. Because they're all looking to do the same.
 
Link please?


"I can’t sit here and say to the players of Liverpool and United to go on strike because that wouldn’t be right, but lads, if you’ve got it in you, you can stop this, you can mobilise it. Jurgen Klopp can stop it, he’s a man of integrity, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer can stop it, he’s a man of integrity, they can all contribute to stopping it and we must all come together to stop it now because this is an attack by six national families on the integrity of our national sport and it must be stopped.”
 
There was a moment where Carragher touched on sky doing this same thing in the past, breaking away and then asked Gary if he'd pundit or commentate for the super League.

Right at that moment my sky Q box dropped for a few minutes and I missed the response.

What was said there?
 
Well that’s all well and good. I’m not trying to take the piss I was asking how this is an example of greed that’s all. Pouring a lot of his own resources into an investment without any guarantee of making a decent return doesn’t strike me as an act of ‘greed’.

Also I’m sure Gary Neville understands that sometimes you need to sack a manager. Just because he doesn’t agree with publicly stating a manager deserves to be sacked on Sky, does not mean he is against changing management when appropriate.
I didn't take it as you taking the piss. I was just replying to your question. I agree that its grey. Its hard to state that its 100 percent pure greed and yes how do you run a football club without funding? How do you run one without sacking managers? The problem I have is that he is a main voice in football and preaches one thing and practices the other. Same as a lot of the voices that are going all mental.
 


"I can’t sit here and say to the players of Liverpool and United to go on strike because that wouldn’t be right, but lads, if you’ve got it in you, you can stop this, you can mobilise it. Jurgen Klopp can stop it, he’s a man of integrity, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer can stop it, he’s a man of integrity, they can all contribute to stopping it and we must all come together to stop it now because this is an attack by six national families on the integrity of our national sport and it must be stopped.”


Fair enough

However I disagree with his assessment. Ole and Klopp are merely employees. They shouldn't be dragged into this mess.
 


"I can’t sit here and say to the players of Liverpool and United to go on strike because that wouldn’t be right, but lads, if you’ve got it in you, you can stop this, you can mobilise it. Jurgen Klopp can stop it, he’s a man of integrity, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer can stop it, he’s a man of integrity, they can all contribute to stopping it and we must all come together to stop it now because this is an attack by six national families on the integrity of our national sport and it must be stopped.”


Two muppets
 
There was a moment where Carragher touched on sky doing this same thing in the past, breaking away and then asked Gary if he'd pundit or commentate for the super League.

Right at that moment my sky Q box dropped for a few minutes and I missed the response.

What was said there?
Avoided giving an answer I think.
 
Fair enough

However I disagree with his assessment. Ole and Klopp are merely employees. They shouldn't be dragged into this mess.

Exactly - they're easily discardable. You need intervention at the level of the gov't saying you can't do this. An employer or player is not going to do feckall in the large scheme of things.

That's why the pressure got to be towards the MP's, government not players.
 
Exactly - they're easily discardable. You need intervention at the level of the gov't saying you can't do this. An employer or player is not going to do feckall in the large scheme of things.

That's why the pressure got to be towards the MP's, government not players.

I wouldn't say that they are easily discardable especially Ole at the moment. However they are still employees. There's no chance in hell that the club would turn down the chance of earning ridiculous money because it would upset Ole or any other employee really. Managers have enough tough time managing a club in normal conditions especially at this time when fatigue starts kicking in and clubs start reaching semi finals etc. Now football had gone upside down, players might find themselves kicked out of their national team etc. These people won't be knocking at Joel Glazer's office door but the manager's. The last thing Ole needs is for Gary Neville to expect him to become some sort of Che Guevara. Ole had one solid shot at a top club. He shouldn't be expected to throw that away.
 
I’m with Neville’s sentiment, although I don’t much like him in general. As Klopp said at the beginning of the pandemic, one of the first things he realised is that he woke up every day to learn Gary Neville has an opinion on ‘absolutely everything’ - and he tends to favour the dramatic. While I am totally against a Super League - him repeatedly saying ‘if these clubs destroy the concept of promotion and relegation it’s a disgrace’, when there is no such proposal to do that domestically, amongst other points he seemed to be making against himself rather than any proposal. He has a flair for the dramatic that irritates me I’m afraid.

That said, the idea of a Super League will destroy domestic competitiveness for the obvious reason of minimal reward/effort relationship at the top end, which is stupid.

That said, once a media train gets going, it’s hard to actually tell what people really think, as this has already descended into some sort of contest to deliver the most ‘powerful’ statement to me. Klopp, for one, seemed not to give too much of a shit about the ESL yesterday, despite Sky fishing for his condemnation. He basically said ‘whatever the competition is called, I’m just the coach, my only concern is to coach the team’.
 
I’m with Neville’s sentiment, although I don’t much like him in general. As Klopp said at the beginning of the pandemic, one of the first things he realised is that he woke up every day to learn Gary Neville has an opinion on ‘absolutely everything’ - and he tends to favour the dramatic. While I am totally against a Super League - him repeatedly saying ‘if these clubs destroy the concept of promotion and relegation it’s a disgrace’, when there is no such proposal to do that domestically, amongst other points he seemed to be making against himself rather than any proposal. He has a flair for the dramatic that irritates me I’m afraid.

That said, the idea of a Super League will destroy domestic competitiveness for the obvious reason of minimal reward/effort relationship at the top end, which is stupid.

That said, once a media train gets going, it’s hard to actually tell what people really think, as this has already descended into some sort of contest to deliver the most ‘powerful’ statement to me. Klopp, for one, seemed not to give too much of a shit about the ESL yesterday, despite Sky fishing for his condemnation. He basically said ‘whatever the competition is called, I’m just the coach, my only concern is to coach the team’.
If you listened to Klopp on Radio 5Live around the time of the Brexit debate you’d realise that he’s as opinionated as Neville, if not more. He can do it quite eloquently in 2 languages