What? The stats are wrong whichever way you look at it. In the last 2 seasons, since Neymar joined Barca and Bale joined Madrid, Bale has 39 goals in 92 games, while Neymar has 54 goals in 92 games.
It's not really close, is it?
Gareth Bale
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It's not really close, is it?
Neymar has 54 goals in 92 appearances for Barca and Bale has 39 goals in the same number for Madrid. That is a pretty big gap and you can clearly see who is better based on that.
Neymar is a striker. Bale is not
Both play similar positions for their respective clubs.
I didn't think the gap was that wide. I have no idea why Perez has got a hard on for Bale, that said he did shell out a world record fee for him...perhaps he has to.
He's a left winger who cuts in on his main foot, Bale is a right winger who cuts in on his main foot... so you're wrong.
Probably the world record fee, too proud to give up on him after 2 seasons and admit he fecked up royally by spending so much on him. He probably thought he would be getting someone like Ronaldo so is persistent on playing him until he produces.
That said if Bale gets the perfect platform he'd be dynamite for us. But we've got ADM who could do something similar.
Hmmm...he's not got Ronaldo's drive. It's as if he's arrived and is happy emulating his idol just by playing for Real.
I posted waaaay back on this thread a couple of months ago with a comparison to Ronaldo as I was having a similar debate with a friend at the time.
Basically, Bales returns are nothing short of incredible on a per game average, Messi and Ronaldo of course are two that better him. I'm not sure of others as I've not really looked at their returns to be honest.
In his last four seasons at Spurs and his two seasons at Madrid his league stats are:
I know stats only tell some of the story so if you look a bit further into the stats, his first season or more at Spurs was spent at Left back or in a left wing back role, which makes it more impressive for me.
It took him two seasons to find his way of course but by 2009/10 season he had a solid season, he was only 20 years old going into that season, he played 18 times and managed to bag 3 goals and 5 assists. From there he improved year on year with Spurs. He was considered one of it not the best left winger in the league from 2011 onwards and justifiably so.
Luke Shaw is only 20 now, so for arguments sake if Shaw played 18 times and had similar returns would anyone here complain? I highly fecking doubt it! The expectations on young players these days is just ridiculous, absolutely stupid in fact.
On his 4th season, it was only then they realized what potential he had as an attacking player. He was fantastic that season for Harry and bagged a load of awards for the 10-11 season. He was in the Team of the year, got Players Player of the Year and even made the UEFA Team of the Year ffs!!
Improved further the following season in 11-12 and was again amongst the goals (involved in 18 goals in 36 matches) and was again voted into the team of the year again.
Then, he had his "One good season" in 12-13, scoring 21 goals in 33 matches, winning the player awards double and in the team of the year for a Third year running!
I'm sorry but it is nothing short of idiotic to suggest Bale has had one good season so far in his career. Fans expectations are the problem, Bale has delivered the majority of the time.
I've always felt he is a United player through and through and would love the guy to sign for us. I mean if he doesn't sign this summer realistically he will probably leave next summer and who can afford him? Even if his price does go down a bit? Probably between ourselves, City & Chelsea most likely.
Basically, Bales returns are nothing short of incredible on a per game average, Messi and Ronaldo of course are two that better him. I'm not sure of others as I've not really looked at their returns to be honest.
In his last four seasons at Spurs and his two seasons at Madrid his league stats are:
- 169 League Apps
- 68 Goals
- 41 Assists
- Involved in a total of 109 goals
I know stats only tell some of the story so if you look a bit further into the stats, his first season or more at Spurs was spent at Left back or in a left wing back role, which makes it more impressive for me.
It took him two seasons to find his way of course but by 2009/10 season he had a solid season, he was only 20 years old going into that season, he played 18 times and managed to bag 3 goals and 5 assists. From there he improved year on year with Spurs. He was considered one of it not the best left winger in the league from 2011 onwards and justifiably so.
Luke Shaw is only 20 now, so for arguments sake if Shaw played 18 times and had similar returns would anyone here complain? I highly fecking doubt it! The expectations on young players these days is just ridiculous, absolutely stupid in fact.
On his 4th season, it was only then they realized what potential he had as an attacking player. He was fantastic that season for Harry and bagged a load of awards for the 10-11 season. He was in the Team of the year, got Players Player of the Year and even made the UEFA Team of the Year ffs!!
Improved further the following season in 11-12 and was again amongst the goals (involved in 18 goals in 36 matches) and was again voted into the team of the year again.
Then, he had his "One good season" in 12-13, scoring 21 goals in 33 matches, winning the player awards double and in the team of the year for a Third year running!
I'm sorry but it is nothing short of idiotic to suggest Bale has had one good season so far in his career. Fans expectations are the problem, Bale has delivered the majority of the time.
I've always felt he is a United player through and through and would love the guy to sign for us. I mean if he doesn't sign this summer realistically he will probably leave next summer and who can afford him? Even if his price does go down a bit? Probably between ourselves, City & Chelsea most likely.
He had one world class season, and then a few good years. That's the difference. Nobody is disputing that he's a good player, he's just not world class IMO and not one of the top 10 in the world or anywhere close to it based on his form since joining Madrid. His last season at Spurs you could say he was one of the top 10 in the world. But that's it.
He has been a top player for sure and the fact that Madrid spent a record fee on him and United seem to want him obviously outlines that he's a quality footballer, but:
a) He does need to still prove himself after not doing that well at Madrid. He's hardly someone whose had 4-5 seasons of greatness so he's still building his reputation and needs that. It seems for some here he's already done everything and has cemented his place.
b) the whole sign him win the league stuff is overrates him. We have to take into account the ground reality right now, not just "spurs wonders pals plus la decima, he'd win us the league on his own" big.
Neymar, Suarez and Robben are clearly better than him when it comes to similar players. Hazard has a good chance of overtaking him this season if he hasn't already.
And there are lots of other great players as well who seem to get lost in the hype. For example is bale currently better than Modric even, who seems to be the guy who makes his team tick?
a) He does need to still prove himself after not doing that well at Madrid. He's hardly someone whose had 4-5 seasons of greatness so he's still building his reputation and needs that. It seems for some here he's already done everything and has cemented his place.
b) the whole sign him win the league stuff is overrates him. We have to take into account the ground reality right now, not just "spurs wonders pals plus la decima, he'd win us the league on his own" big.
Neymar, Suarez and Robben are clearly better than him when it comes to similar players. Hazard has a good chance of overtaking him this season if he hasn't already.
And there are lots of other great players as well who seem to get lost in the hype. For example is bale currently better than Modric even, who seems to be the guy who makes his team tick?
As much as I like Modric, signing bale would make us closer to title winners than signing Modric in my opinion and therefore he warrants higher praise and higher prices.
Do you think he'll fly in directly to join the lads on the US tour ?
Bale is at a club with no team ethic. Even though he is not a team reliant player; no one can argue the benefits of playing for barcelona the team. All the stats, positional advantages are screwed. All that is obvious is that with a team behind him, bale would or should be the star man at any club other than barcelona & madrid.
Thats why he makes utter sense at any price because he would be our First choice RW, 2nd choice striker & LW.
Whatever we pay for bale; we will get the money back on shirt sales alone. I love this site but I hate accountancy.
Thats why he makes utter sense at any price because he would be our First choice RW, 2nd choice striker & LW.
Whatever we pay for bale; we will get the money back on shirt sales alone. I love this site but I hate accountancy.
WTF were you expecting from an 18 year old left back on his debut season at Spurs, World class?
This is exactly what I am on about, your expectations of an 18 year old (his age when he signed for Spurs) are simply put unrealistic. It took him a couple of seasons to find form within the premier league and that is completely reasonable and acceptable for a young player.
It's more than fair to state the guy has been world class from at least 2011 onwards. Just looking at his returns against Thomas Muller and Bale is the same as him, why Muller? Only fair considering we have been strongly linked with him also.
Again, Looking at League returns being as its every players bread and butter:
Muller:
14/15 - 28 games, 13 goals and 10 assists
Bale
14/15 - 30 games, 13 goals and 9 assists
Muller
13/14 - 25 games, 13 goals and 10 assists
Bale
13/14 - 24 games, 15 goals and 12 assists
Muller
12/13 - 25 games, 13 goals and 11 assists
Bale
12/13 - 33 games, 21 goals and 4 assists
Totals:
Muller: 78 games, 39 goals and 31 assists
Bale: 87 games, 49 goals and 25 assists
Much of a muchness really, but the funny thing is you and plenty of others would put Muller in the "world class" bracket and omit Bale, which I find odd. More so considering Bale was with Spurs who were a far weaker team then Bayern who walk to their league title every year now.
Of course Bales performances dropped off a bit last season, but he still put in a good season for them over all. The grief he was getting from players and fans alike is nothing short of disgusting. Not surprised his form dipped off considering that.
He did not. He was one of the worst of the first choice players. Modric, Ronaldo, Ramos, Marcelo, Isco, Benzema, James, Carvajal, were all better than him. But to see, that you need to look past the numbers and watch the football. I don't know why it's difficult for some to expect he was not good.
When did I say I expected anything from him when he was a youngster? His Spurs career was perfectly fine, and he reached a world class level in his last season but no sooner. I'm saying at madrid he hasn't lived up to that at all. He might have a good scoring and assist record (as any attacker for Real Madrid will have), but his performances have been poor. That's what the big difference is. Those who watch him consistently can look past the numbers and admit he has been poor for madrid, while those who constantly back him and think he's one of the best around only look at his numbers and ignore the rest of his performance.
Oddly his team mates have been performing excellently in a team with "no worth ethic".
Excuses.
If it's the team's fault, as you put it, then he is indeed a team reliant player.
As opposed to the shitty Real Madrid which only has one of the best attacks and creative midfields around.
Say no to the Super Ape.
Or do you think it could just be possible that people like myself believe that maybe Bale just isn't built to play for Real. They are unique and as a player it's like being thrown into the lions den, for that reason certain players may be unable to cope with this added pressure. The pressure at Utd, though still huge, is also far more inviting as the fans tend to nurture the players more than the Madrid faithful. Have you also stopped to consider that the change of couture, language and leaving friends and family may have affected him performances negatively. People act as if he is a robot but what his Wales performances show is that in an environment and team he is comfortable in, he is able to put out consistent world class performances.
I do not claim to watch much Real Madrid so I don't really doubt that his performances haven't been up to scratch by many people's expectations at real, but I believe he was made to be a Utd player and that if he was to move here he would then up his game to beyond anything he's has even shown before and really take us to title favourites as well as pushing his personal boundaries as a player.
Not really Amol, to be fair Madrid were out of sorts for much of last season. They were winning as they should be but they certainly weren't winning in style as they were the previous season on many occasions. Ronaldo basically went through the motions and done what he has done every season, score a feck tonne of goals against mainly pish poor Spanish teams that are probably on the same level as League 1 or Championship sides. There wasn't many stand out Madrid performances last season was there? Was there many stand out Ronaldo performances either? Don't mention the game against Granada as it backs up the League 1 comment!
Of course his performances dropped off from the previous 3 or 4 seasons that he put in but I'm not surprised considering the personal stuff he was going through. Sure look no further than Di Maria, he had personal issues this season and his form in the second part of the season dropped off. He wasn't the player he could be, we all know that.
Yep, that's exactly it.
He'd be great to have at United but I don't see why we should pretend as if what happens at Madrid says nothing about him as a player and only his season at Spurs defines everything about him. It's the highest level he's played at. It's his biggest move, his biggest stage, his biggest test.
Or do you think it could just be possible that people like myself believe that maybe Bale just isn't built to play for Real. They are unique and as a player it's like being thrown into the lions den, for that reason certain players may be unable to cope with this added pressure. The pressure at Utd, though still huge, is also far more inviting as the fans tend to nurture the players more than the Madrid faithful. Have you also stopped to consider that the change of culture, language and leaving friends and family may have affected his performances negatively. People act as if he is a robot but what his Wales performances show is that in an environment and team he is comfortable in, he is able to put out consistent world class performances.
I do not claim to watch much Real Madrid so I don't really doubt that his performances haven't been up to scratch by many people's expectations at real, but I believe he was made to be a Utd player and that if he was to move here he would then up his game to beyond anything he's has even shown before and really take us to title favourites as well as pushing his personal boundaries as a player. I just think there are more factors in play than people realise and it's not always the stuff on the pitch that has the greatest affect on a player, it seems that you haven't really considered this.
I'm not saying he can't ever find that level he was at before again... I'm saying that if you're judging him as a player, it has to be by his most recent seasons. He could rediscover his form, but when rating someone, nobody gives a feck if he was going through some culture shock or left people behind. People only care about what happens on the pitch, and on the pitch he hasn't been good enough for madrid and doesn't warrant being called one of the top 10 in the world or anything close to it. Not saying he doesn't have the ability to be in that top 10 though.
myself and @TrustInJanuzai summed it up about Madrid just above in two different scenarios.
Bale is still reasonably young (26), has his best years ahead of him and is definitely up there in the world class bracket as he has been consistent for at least 4 or 5 seasons already in his career, last season was a bit of a stumble for him sure but he was still good for them.
Madrid as TIJ states is absolute hell, plain and simple. The pressures at the club are like no other and that is a fact. United fans are far more patient and forgiving towards players and almost always show 110% support towards the players, only time I recall United fans booing / heckling a United player was that unfortunate incident with Fellaini last summer.
Mardid fans ridiculed Bale throughout the season because of really minor things that have happened in matches. Real for a number of years has been about one man and one man only, Ronaldo. Any player not feeding Ronaldo will be crucified for it, Bale made this mistake.
I dont think anyone could have seen Madrid last season and said that. They were not out of sorts at all. They were just beaten to the punch by a team that had an extraordinary consistency and front three. Madrid were fantastic on the ball for me for most of the season. I thought their fluency in the ball was better than Barcelona's, it's just that barca's top 3 gave them the edge. And they only lost to that team by 2 points in la liga, and were very close to making the cl final.Not really Amol, to be fair Madrid were out of sorts for much of last season. They were winning as they should be but they certainly weren't winning in style as they were the previous season on many occasions. Ronaldo basically went through the motions and done what he has done every season, score a feck tonne of goals against mainly pish poor Spanish teams that are probably on the same level as League 1 or Championship sides. There wasn't many stand out Madrid performances last season was there? Was there many stand out Ronaldo performances either? Don't mention the game against Granada as it backs up the League 1 comment!
Of course his performances dropped off from the previous 3 or 4 seasons that he put in but I'm not surprised considering the personal stuff he was going through. Sure look no further than Di Maria, he had personal issues this season and his form in the second part of the season dropped off. He wasn't the player he could be, we all know that.
So yeah, it was a team full of performers. Isco and James were excellent. Modric was possibly Europes best central midfielder till he was fit, Benzema, Ramos and Marcelona were all good.
And now that the ' league 1' comment is properly backed up, shouldn't Bale have torn up that shitty shitty league?
Yeh that's fair enough tho I think you are highlighting the fickle nature of most football fans nowhere days where the moment you drop off form you are past it and/or useless which is often not the case. Football is a game of ups and downs, it's how you respond to those low points that defines players, that defining moment will be over the next few years for Bale be that at Madrid or at Utd.
I don't disagree that signing bale would be better for us due to our new found strength in midfield and him being younger.
However, I don't see why he warrants more praise if modric is performing at a much higher level and is possibly the best central midfielder around.
I don't think anyone is saying "he's a flop, and rubbish" here.
I'd have him in our squad in an instant. But I'm not going to judge him selectively.
Sorry perhaps I worded that poorly, what I mean is that yes Modric should receive high praise for his midfield performances because as you say they are absolute top quality but I just meant that people will always enthuse more about Bale if not only for the reason that he is an attacker and they are more often In the limelight. Modric is one of those players like carrick (obviously better) that just goes about his job and is an important player but rarely gets the praise he deserves and I'm not convinced that will ever change really. But as you say Bale would be the better fit for our current side and could potentially be one of the final cogs in the machine.
Beg to differ, they started of well of course and held form til about Mid Oct early November and the performances fell off as Ancelloti came under more pressure. Results were generally still there of course, but they didn't look confident in many of the games.
The players respected him and didn't want to see him get fired, Ronaldo was quite vocal about this himself if I recall correctly. The stand out performance from them was the 3-1 win over Barca at home.
Their record against the top teams was very hit and miss, they suffered a humiliating 4-0 loss to Athletico Madrid, this after they lost to them 2-1 earlier in the season. They gained some revenge of course in the CL Semi final with a very late winner from our own Hernandez.
Valencia who finished 4th in La Liga, beat them 2-1 at home and managed a 2-2 draw at the Bernabau, this after they went 2-0 down and needed a late equalizer.
Sevilla in 5th, they beat bot times but again the away match wasn't exactly a great performance, finishing 3-2.
I don't know what Madrid you were watching but they didn't convince me much to be honest.
As I've said above, Bale was out of sorts last season due to the treatment he was getting and it seems it got the better of him. None the less the season before that his returns were excellent and had the performances to match against teams at both ends of the table.
Right, if Madrid last season didn't "convince" you, which team did in Europe? Just the one?
Valencia were fantastic at times last time. They battered barca despite losing 1-0 in a key game.
Madrid had a great season by anyone's standards in terms of their actual football. It's just that they competed with Barcelona and ran into a dogged Juve side. None of which allows bale to use his team as an excuse for his performances when so many of his team mates had good/very good seasons. Did you not watch Isco, James, Modric, Ronaldo or Benzema? Did you see that lot and go "yeah, this team is too dysfunctional for Bale to perform in"? He's lucky if anything to be playing in that good an attack and in front of that good a midfield.
I agree that he's still young and has his best years ahead of him.. I just don't think his previous years have been world class apart from 12/13 (the 2 years before that he was growing from inconsistent winger to a very good player and finally world class). That's why I wouldn't have him in that bracket. If he kept up his spurs level, then no problem, but it dropped right when he moved to Madrid. With a move somewhere else he'd definitely be better, but I still wouldn't spend 100m+ on him to bring him to United, as there are plenty of valid questions as to how much he would suit a possession based team like ours. That price is more then twice what his real value should be, and there are similar quality players who you can get for less then half that.
At the start of the season they did yeah, they were full of confidence of course from the previous season and getting La Decima.
A better way to put it is by Madrid's standards they were hit and miss, I personally felt they played better the season before. I do believe as the season wore on the confidence eroded and performances dropped from many of the players.
If you doubt me just look at their performances in Europe as well as the La Liga performances. They went 1-0 down against Ludogorets and relied upon a Ronaldo penalty and a late Ramos goal to get the win. Basel away was also a dreadful performance, they were very lucky to leave there with a 1-0 win! So they had their blips in the group stage and then went on to play Schalke who they beat 2-0 in the 1st leg to then lose 4-3 at home, which reminded me a bit of United v Leicester actually. Basically a complete meltdown performance! Limped through that round.
They then laboured to a 0-0 draw with Athletic and then scraped through via that late Hernandez goal. Then met the "dogged" Juventus. So were Ludogorets, Basel and Schalke dogged too?
Madrid were very hit and miss last season and simply put their expensively assembled squad under performed by and large for most of last season. They looked great at some of the lower tier sides in Spain which they usually do but again their season is littered with extremely poor performances through out and the stumbled to wins on plenty of occasions.
Last season he had an off season by the standard that he set in the previous seasons I don't deny that, however many of Madrids players I felt weren't at their best either, so to single him out I find it unfair personally.
The money doesn't bother me, as a poster said earlier if we bought Bale the money spent on him would be recouped in no time on shirt sales alone.
Cos Ronaldo was the last presidents signing, forgot his name. He wants a star player of his own and Bale is the closest thing he has right now.
Ay yi yi!
Haha and the award for best comment of the year goes to......
Bale was linked with Birmingham and had deservedly earned the nickname Gareth Fail when he was Sterling's age. He had one fluke season and has failed to impress in Madrid. Lacks right foot and his knees will give up in a year's time. Nothing player really.
Are you being serious? Absolutely hilarious if so. Bale has shown he has the ability to be one of the best players in the world one day, and I wouldn't say he's "failed to impress" in Madrid at all, he just didn't have an £85m impact.
He's a good player but 'he has the ability to be one of the best players in the world one day' is absolutely ludricious. He's as good as Pedro(speed merchant, Pedro's tactical intelligence and ability to retain possession equals Bales Physicality) and Pedro's quoted price is ≈€22m.
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