Yes, different players. I think Muller would be much more useful than Bale would be. Much like Di Maria, I dont think Bale is suited to Van Gaal's style. Both would have been world beaters under Sir Alex. Muller would be much more useful in this setup.
Gareth Bale
- Thread starter sun_tzu
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
- Status
Yes, different players. I think Muller would be much more useful than Bale would be. Much like Di Maria, I dont think Bale is suited to Van Gaal's style. Both would have been world beaters under Sir Alex. Muller would be much more useful in this setup.
I hope they have enough cotton for that...
I know what you mean but I just don't really see any scenario where the front 3 could each grab 20 goals each as an issue. Of course that is all speculative but Bale would certainly get 20, Depay has potential to grow to a similar tally and a striker be that Rooney or Someone new should also get something similar. That would give us goals galore in a similar way to what Barca have done with their front 3 (obviously we don't have the same quality). All the creativity in the team would come from the deeper midfield with players like mata, Herrera and Bastian offering loads of playmaking abilities and they are all fantastic players, potentially the best in the league so I don't think we would suffer in any way.
What about trusting Januzaj though?
Haha I still trust but I'd prefer him to be given a chance in the 10 role as I feel that is where he is naturally built to play. In my opinion tho still a good option out wide he lacks the pace to be a top winger. I would also rather januzai given a chance than Di Maria for example who I think is abit overrated and it may just be me but I still believe his heart isn't in it
Polyester's where it's at!When barca had 3 forwards in their front line they had a behemoth of a midfield. Now this past season they have messi playing as the deepest attacker and making lots of plays for the 2 primary forwards in Neymar and Suarez. This works really well as their midfield isn't as strong as it used to be although it is still really strong.
Take the BBC for example. When Madrid had Modric, Kroos and DiMaria all playing they didn't have any problems being effective. Lose modric thus significantly reducing the effectiveness of that midfield, then they struggle to get it done.
Bale isn't much of a supply player at this point. He's still a forward in the strictest sense unless he's playing on the left whipping them in. Depay, Rooney and Bale would work if we had a really great midfield that have no problems creating openings for them throughout matches like how Bastian, Martinez and Ribery used to do for Muller, Mandzukic and Robben.
That's the reason imo the madrid fans prefer Rodriguez in the side as he's a playmaker rather than a forward thus the football flows easier.
In essence I don't see where Depay's supply would come from in such a system. The football would be very individualistic and Bale would spend a lot of the time occupying his action areas with most fans blaming him for a not so totally effective front line.
I'd love Bale at United but he's clearly sat firmly upon Florentino's pole, so I see little prospect of that in the near future. I really don't think the Madrid superstar role suits him at all.
But our midfield has potential to be at that level over the next few years with the players that we have so I really don't think it's that far fetched.
Debatable. Schweinsteiger and Carrick are old and clearly past their best. This leaves Herrera and Schneiderlin+1 to complete the midfield. That +1 is going to be a problem as our manager doesn't seem to trust either Januzaj or DiMaria in midfield. If that does become the case that our midfield becomes really dominant then I'll be all for it but I doubt that's gonna be the case.
Well it's good to hear a different opinion on it and I think you've brought up some good points. I for one hope that our midfield can reach that level because regardless of our wingers we will need it to compete with the superpowers of football
Im not sure you can say that for sure with certainty. How good was Scholes at that age?
+ if Herrera gets really good he is off to Barca or Real.
Different types of players.
So do I mate, its been a long time since we've had a fully functioning midfield that can go toe to toe with the best in world football.
Doubt that, listening him talk tells me he's gonna be here a long time if allowed to. He's not a fan of either team.
I dont see that, he really seems up for playing at old trafford and has a level head on his shoulders. I think Herrera will be here for years to come.
In essence the same roles at that age in the team. You are never going to get an exact match of any player. But this is close enough to compare. Plus the big thing that both these players have in their favour is they don't rely on pace.
Have to go back a while to when we last used cotton...
Yeah maybe. We will have to wait until the chips are down. Because he will be good I think.
while the rest of the post is quite ridiculous too, this sentence is somehow even worse.
I mean after all he is in a superior team and still he couldn't 'win' them the league.
He is in a league with arguably the best club side in world at the moment, if he came to us, it isn't inconceivable that he could be the difference between us winning the league, so it's not that ridiculous.
Rather than mocking other posters opinions, why don't you post your own?
What about last year when Atletico won the league?
About my own opinion, I've given it many times. I like Bale but I think he us ridiculously overrated here. I don't think that he could be a success in our possession based system, but if LVG thinks that he can do well here, who am I to disagree.
At the same price I might prefer Reus and would definitely prefer Muller.
Agree. To get the best out of Bale, you have to make him the main man, the main goalscoring player, and have the whole team revolve and built around him, like Wales is and how Tottenham were. United are never going to do that with Bale, primarily because he isn't good enough for that anyway, but also because Van Gaal doesn't do that for anyone.
Any manager would want Bale in their team. He's one of the best players in the world. If LVG can play robben up front with van persie there's no reason bale couldn't play with Rooney. In fact I think he would prove to be an ideal partner for him.
There's no one system van gaal works with and there's no reason why bale can't fit into a tweaked form of our current system. In any case, even in a possession system you require players who can go past their defenders which frees up space and drags defenders out of position so why not have that from both the right and the left instead of only from the left in the form of delay/di maria. Signing Bale makes perfect sense
There's no one system van gaal works with and there's no reason why bale can't fit into a tweaked form of our current system. In any case, even in a possession system you require players who can go past their defenders which frees up space and drags defenders out of position so why not have that from both the right and the left instead of only from the left in the form of delay/di maria. Signing Bale makes perfect sense
I think that we could make him our main man (and he could be good enough to be so) but not with LVG. If SAF was still our manager I think that Bale would have been perfect for us.
With LVG I think that Muller would be the best possible signing, but cannot happen.
Robben is one of the players with the best technique. Bale isn't.
I think that Robben can play in every system while Bale is more suited to counter attacking systems. His main attributes are speed and power, and so he would be quite ineffective in systems when the opposition defends with 10 players.
Anyway if LVG thinks otherwise, I would be glad if we get him. He's better than everything we have bar a in form Di Maria.
I think winning the CL and scoring in the final isn't too shabby for your first season. I also think we would recoup a large percentage of the transfer fee due to the huge marketing potential, Bale would also bring that attacking threat from out wide that we all crave.
I must admit Reus & Muller are both top players, and the type of players we should be targeting, not a second rate player like Pedro.
I am not sure Bale is any better suited to LVGs system than Di Maria is. He also needs space to run into and was at his best counter attacking down the wing for Spurs. Playing under Van Gaal doesn't involve much counter attacking.
I think Bale might be a little better suited to van Gaal's system then many in here give him credit for.
He could add a lot of penetration and direct goal threat in the final third, not to mention open space up for other players to exploit - not many teams will leave Bale in a 1 v 1 situation against a fullback. We haven't had a player of that calibre since Ronaldo left - a player who instills fear in the opposition.
The closest we've come is an in form Nani/Valencia, and signing AdM.
He's playing in Madrid in a more direct, fast paced attack and counter attacking system, yet he's still struggling. I agree he's best suited to a counter attacking system, but I think he'd be able to adjust to LvG.
After all, he has all the attributes to do well in the fast paced, frantic, EPL, where pace and power is hugely beneficial, no matter what system you're playing.
In the end though, he's not worth 80m (pounds), let alone 100m (pounds), so I'd definitely prefer a couple of other options.
He could add a lot of penetration and direct goal threat in the final third, not to mention open space up for other players to exploit - not many teams will leave Bale in a 1 v 1 situation against a fullback. We haven't had a player of that calibre since Ronaldo left - a player who instills fear in the opposition.
The closest we've come is an in form Nani/Valencia, and signing AdM.
He's playing in Madrid in a more direct, fast paced attack and counter attacking system, yet he's still struggling. I agree he's best suited to a counter attacking system, but I think he'd be able to adjust to LvG.
After all, he has all the attributes to do well in the fast paced, frantic, EPL, where pace and power is hugely beneficial, no matter what system you're playing.
In the end though, he's not worth 80m (pounds), let alone 100m (pounds), so I'd definitely prefer a couple of other options.
Im sorry i couldnt agree less with the statements above. Even Rooneys technique isnt as good as Robben (who like many great dutch players has excellent technique). By that comparison even rooney shouldnt be a forward for van gaals united. the truth is that robbens technique is not an index for any sort of comparison. bale is a great player and im sure he didnt get so far by having an inferior technique. he has enough in his locker to play in our forward line under any manager. no wonder we have been after if for such a long time now.
secondly, ancelottis madrid also played possession football and bale did pretty well in that system. there were many la liga games at the bernabeu and away games as well where madrid played against two lines of four and bale played well under those circumstances. The times bale played badly was when he had less freedom to roam and was shunted out to the wing as a RM than playing him as a forward and giving him the freedom to roam.
thirdly, playing against 10 defensive men is all the more reason you need a player who can produce a bit of magic to unlock a defense.
lastly, our weakness while going forward last season imo was the lack of movement of forwards along the channels and beyond the defenders. we did not pull CBs apart, we played in front of them. A strike force of Rooney and Bale would solve that problem imo. Mueller is a kind of player that require players like Bale to create that space in which he operates very intelligently. Bale is the player that creates the space. we already have a good enough forward in the form of rooney to make use of that space. If we should sign anyone for our RF position it should be Bale. Obv thats easier said than done
They compete with Barcelona, we compete with Chelsea and City.
They came close to winning the league. We...
Would love him. Not gonna happen this year. Another failed season, particularly if he's deemed their 'main man', may change things tho.
Even a Robben in a ball possession system lives a lot of the mechanism around him.
He always looks great individually - but the interactions with the players around him make him effective and very valuable. Him and Müller at Bayern somehow live of each other - Müller because Robben takes away the attention from him (even if his scoring numbers do not depend on Robben) and Robben because Müller with his runs draws him defenders away etc. Add Lahm into this. Even the individualists today cannot live on their own - if not in a more counter attacking system.
Bale last year reminded me a little bit on Bayern and Robben in a lot of the matches in 2012/13. The system was very leftsided with Kroos, Ribery, Schweinsteiger and Lahm coming over the left side and a more defensive fullback on the right. Real looked to me similar to this. Side changes simply came not as a surprise and Bale had to fight alone against some players like this without having any space and the possibility to use his pace or surprise moments.
Only on his and your dreams, After Ronaldo and Messi we have Neymar and Hazard with more probabilities to win the Ballon D'or, for me Bale is not even in the first 10 best players in the world.
They compete with Barcelona, Atletico and Perez.
I personally think counterattacks are very important considering that the overall length and width of our entire team will start of compressed & lead to expansion at the moment of attack.
In the modern game you just cant have 3 forwards without a midfield & defence working coherently together & players like schneirdlin become even more important in doing so.
There is absolutely no way Neymar is a better footballer than bale after one champions league outing like last year. One more win/season; then yes.
How on Earth is Bale better than Neymar? Bale has had one excellent season which earned him his dream move to Madrid. Since then he has been decent and nothing more. Neymar was tearing up the Brazilian league which got him his move to Barca and he has had a couple of excellent seasons since then.
So in which alternate universe is Bale better than Neymar?
- Status