Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

robinamicrowave said:
Ooh, ooh, I have one! *raises hand* Thought I'd join in. What's everyone's least favourite storyline from each season?

Season 1 - None really, but if I had to choose.... maybe Dany's story up until Visyers gets killed?
Season 2 - Dany's adventures in Qarth. Where were her dragons?
Season 3 - None really, but if I had to choose... maybe the repeated visits to Ramsay's torture chamber?
Season 4 - None at all. Think it's a perfect season of TV.
Season 5 - Jaime and Bronn's stealth mission to Dorne... in broad daylight!
Season 6 - The Waif chases Arya around Braavos for two days!
Season 7 - Baelish turning Arya against Sansa, because reasons?
Season 8 - None really, but if I had to choose... it felt wrong when Jaime & Brienne slept together.
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Season 8s battle in kings landing was pretty awful on 2nd watch. I think this is really the episode they got wrong.

Too many dothraki and unsullied were there when most died the previous battle.

Jaime took his hand of to travel north to winterfell but forgot to take it of travelling south and got caught.

Jaime and Cersei's death.

Arya's whole thing that episode was pointless.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
I was going to make a separate thread about changing S8 but don’t think it’s allowed. BUT just for the sake of wasting a bit of time.

Everything that has happened in S8 doesn’t changed. But you can tweak it a small bit to make sense or make it better. IE. Arya still kills NK, Drogon burns Kings Landing.
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Im going to do a post after i finish the final episode of a few things id have changed that made sense imo, nothing really major, just minor tweaks that would have worked i think, but the major events would still end up near the same, like arya killing the NK, dany going mad etc
 
Moby said:
Yeah, as much as the material running out took it down, it was also down to good characters and actors leaving. Season 4 ending was a massacre. We lost Tywin and in essence Tyrion. They were never able to fill that hole.
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OleBoiii said:
Varys and Littlefinger also effectively died after they left King's Landing.
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Varys/Tyrion imo were fine in s5 until Tyrion met with Dany (although him meeting with Dany and become her hand was still good television imo).
Sons of Harpy however was just a terrible bunch to keep Dany there obviously, but those jobbers should never have been able to take out Barriston Selmy.
But yeah, they lost some really solid characters and actors around the same time (end of s4-s7)
Including the two female tyrells.

AaronRedDevil said:
I was going to make a separate thread about changing S8 but don’t think it’s allowed. BUT just for the sake of wasting a bit of time.

Everything that has happened in S8 doesn’t changed. But you can tweak it a small bit to make sense or make it better. IE. Arya still kills NK, Drogon burns Kings Landing.
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Also Dany losing a second dragon, It would have been more natural for her to lose one in the fight with the NK, or during her actual fight against Cerseis army and that causes her to snap (not in between)
Think same could be said for s7 as well. Losing a dragon to NK could have happened in a more logical way, but oh well.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
I was going to make a separate thread about changing S8 but don’t think it’s allowed. BUT just for the sake of wasting a bit of time.

Everything that has happened in S8 doesn’t changed. But you can tweak it a small bit to make sense or make it better. IE. Arya still kills NK, Drogon burns Kings Landing.
Click to expand...
I like this idea, just because I think fanfiction is a nice exercise. I've already casually mapped this out because it's the stupid shit I daydream about when I'm bored, but I should clarify that I really enjoyed season 8 and don't think it's my place to say what should/shouldn't have happened. It's so much easier to go through a completed piece of work than it is to create something from scratch. And I'd argue that people who didn't like the last three episodes "because of the execution" still wouldn't have liked them regardless. But with all that side, if I had unlimited time, budget, and control...

- Have it be 10 episodes, no brainer there.
- Keep 'Winterfell' & 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms' 99% the same, but just show us what happened at Last Hearth before Edd & Tormund, etc. got there. Show the Umbers and some common people getting wiped out and show us the Army of the Dead in action before 'The Long Night'.
- Keep 'The Long Night' as episode 3. Don't change anything about the plot, just turn the brightness up a wee bit! :lol:
- Split the events of 'The Last of the Starks' across episodes 4-7. The problem with 'The Last of the Starks', as much as I generally like the episode, is that it picks up the pace again when really it should settle down. We've just had a big battle - let the characters reflect for more than twenty minutes.
- Keep 'The Bells' as it is, but just make it episode 8.
- Spread the events of 'The Iron Throne' across episodes 9 & 10. The problem I have with it in its current form, again much as I generally like it, is that the tonal shift between Dany's death and Bran's coronation is sudden and jarring. Split the episode at the point where Drogon flies off with Dany's body and give people a week to adjust, then come back in with a different mood/setting and focus on wrapping things up.

So, 8.1 would begin with Jon & Dany's arrival at Winterfell, ending with Jaime seeing Bran in the courtyard (additional scene showing the White Walkers devastating Last Hearth); 8.2 would begin with Jaime's trial, ending with the arrival of the White Walkers; 8.3 would begin with battle preparations and end with Melisandre drifting away in the snow; 8.4 would begin with the funeral, ending with Daenerys pleading with Jon not to reveal that he's a Targaryen (additional scenes of Dany becoming isolated, and characters reflecting after the battle); 8.5 would begin with Dany planning her conquest of King's Landing, ending with Sansa telling Tyrion about Jon's heritage (additional character scenes); 8.6 would begin with Arya and the Hound leaving Winterfell, ending with Euron attacking Dany's fleet (additional travelling and character scenes), 8.7 would begin with Grey Worm realising Missandei is missing, ending with the Mountain beheading Missandei (additional scenes at Dragonstone detailing Varys' treason); 8.8 would begin with Varys' execution, ending with Arya escaping on the white horse; 8.9 would begin with Tyrion and Jon walking the streets of King's Landing, ending with Drogon flying away with Dany's body (additional scenes of Jon & Tyrion in prison); 8.10 would begin with Tyrion being taken to the Dragonpit meeting, ending with Jon heading out beyond the Wall (additional scenes to adjust the episode's overall tone).
 
AaronRedDevil said:
I was going to make a separate thread about changing S8 but don’t think it’s allowed. BUT just for the sake of wasting a bit of time.

Everything that has happened in S8 doesn’t changed. But you can tweak it a small bit to make sense or make it better. IE. Arya still kills NK, Drogon burns Kings Landing.
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Winterfell
So for my idea. Starts off with the NK heading for bran, instead of Jon getting attacked by the dragon, he runs straight to the garden, and manages to stop him from killing bran, you know the fight we’ve been waiting for years now. they fight for a bit but the NK is too good of a fighter, much faster then Jon, But Jon is fighting back with everything he’s got. Eventually he loses the fight and as he’s about to be killed by the NK. That’s when Arya sees this and does that attack from the show. Bang same thing happens with the knife.

Now for the Burning of Kings landing.
Just to clear up some confusion, if you remember the intro song into kings Landing you see a crossbow aiming at the dragon head. Meaning I thought that’s what was going to happen. So the moment Dany lands with the dragon and all the troops surrender. Instead of burning the place down for no fecking good reason. Cersei still has one last cross left hidden inside the castle as a lost resort, since she’s usually good with sneaky back up plans. Anyway she fires the bow at drogon, dany sees it and just manage to avoid the arrow but it knocks dany off Drogon and lands on the ground making her look dead in Drogons eyes. So in anger he just burns everything. Same thing happens instead of dany burning it down, it’s all Drogon. Which would make more sense instead of Dany trying her best to kill Jons sister Arya.
So the bittersweet moment would be her firing a crossbow straight into Drogons head instead of Jon killing dany. That’s all I got for the moment. Standard ending, bran isn’t king, Arya doesn’t be like the hound as he fecking told her too and goes back to gendry. Sansa is warden of the north. Jon and dany are king and queen. Dothraki don’t exist anymore because there’s like 5 of them left, same for the unsullied. they don’t have respawn powers anymore because the red bitch is dead. Bronn isn’t in charge of the fecking money. Robin trips and falls through the moon door. When Brianne is writing Jaime’s chapter in the book. Her last line would write “His legacy lives on through his child”. Meaning she’s pregnant with his baby. Kinda surprised they didn’t do that anyway. To be fair they didn’t think ANYTHING through in S8. But yeah that’s all I got for now. Last episode would be the only one that’s completely different.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Jon and dany are king and queen.
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The rest of your post tracked and was fair enough, but having Jon and Dany ruling at the end flies in the face of what the story was about. GRRM was inspired to write A Song of Ice and Fire as something of a response to Lord of the Rings, and chiefly the fantasy trope that a good king/queen (like Aragorn) automatically results in a prosperous nation. How many times has history proven that to be false? You can't challenge a fantasy trope if you endorse it.

And if it's Jon and Dany as king and queen at the end (presumably with children), doesn't that justify divine rightism and celebrate an incestuous dynasty? Dany believed it was her destiny to sit on the Iron Throne, and that she deserved the crown simply because of her family name. To give her the victory at the end would contradict so much of what the story tried to critique about what the thirst for power does to people - especially in the aftermath of her child scorching a city.
 
Id like to see peoples path for the same big points from s7
-Dany loses a dragon, NK takes dragon and brings down the wall (although I would have just not had Dany lose her dragon at that point to the NK, and used Bran being marked and on the otherside of the wall as the path for the NK to break the magic of the wall)
-Battle of winterfell
-Dany going bad
-Dany being killed by Jon / Bran becoming King.

Im sure the samepoints could have been done with the time they had but not as ... klumpy.
 
Sylar said:
Id like to see peoples path for the same big points from s7
-Dany loses a dragon, NK takes dragon and brings down the wall (although I would have just not had Dany lose her dragon at that point to the NK, and used Bran being marked and on the otherside of the wall as the path for the NK to break the magic of the wall)
-Battle of winterfell
-Dany going bad
-Dany being killed by Jon / Bran becoming King.

Im sure the samepoints could have been done with the time they had but not as ... klumpy.
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I'd change the way the Night King gets Viserion a little bit, but from the point of origin. There's a thread running through seasons 7 & 8 that I quite like, and it's Tyrion's refusal to see that Dany ruling means his family won't survive. His refusal to see reality causes a lot of desperation and, therefore, bad planning. The idea to capture a wight was stupid (I still don't fully understand it), but if it could have been made clear that Tyrion only came up with the idea out of sheer desperation and panic - like, he's really scraping the bottom of the barrel for ways to secure a truce and keep everyone happy - then it might have tracked a little better? From then on, have "Beyond the Wall" play out as it does in the show, but don't do the whole Gendry/raven thing. Just have Dany choose to fly and save them fairly early on in the episode because Jon's her best chance at securing the throne, and from there make it a race against time and a question of whether she'll make it before they're either killed by the Army of the Dead or end up freezing to death.
 
robinamicrowave said:
The rest of your post tracked and was fair enough, but having Jon and Dany ruling at the end flies in the face of what the story was about. GRRM was inspired to write A Song of Ice and Fire as something of a response to Lord of the Rings, and chiefly the fantasy trope that a good king/queen (like Aragorn) automatically results in a prosperous nation. How many times has history proven that to be false? You can't challenge a fantasy trope if you endorse it.

And if it's Jon and Dany as king and queen at the end (presumably with children), doesn't that justify divine rightism and celebrate an incestuous dynasty? Dany believed it was her destiny to sit on the Iron Throne, and that she deserved the crown simply because of her family name. To give her the victory at the end would contradict so much of what the story tried to critique about what the thirst for power does to people - especially in the aftermath of her child scorching a city.
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I supposed I see what your saying. Just the way I saw dany when she’s saying she’ll burn people, every time, Jorah always corrected her and Selmy did the same. Just thought that was Dany from the show and not the books. Just from my point of view anyway.And yeah it’s nothing what the show was building up to with Jon and dany. Just thought it would be better then what we got.
 
arnie_ni said:
I think right up to they went north of the wall for proof of the dead in season 7was v.good

Had some dodgey moments of course but every show does.

Season 7 ending trying to convince Cersei to join them was good as well.

Season 8 espsidoes 1 and 2 were fine for the most part.

The great battle a few simple changes could have went a long way to making that perfect.

Its season 8 epsiode 4 were it all starts going wrong on rewatch for me
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Yeah, that episode was the point where characters stopped affecting the story and it flipped to the other way around.
 
One of the biggest disappointments for me was that I feel like there is so much more about the world in GoT that never gets examined or answered. For example:

What causes winter? Do the white walkers cause it, or are they caused by it?
Why does magic become more prominent during winter?
Why do dragons show up during winter?
Why are the seasons so long? What affects the length and severity?
What actual is west of Westeros?
R'hllor seems to be a deity with some actual tangible power. Whats the deal with that vs the other gods that are worshipped?
What really happened to Old Valeria? Also, dragonglass and Valerian steel.

As someone who enjoyed the extended lore of the LOTR universe, it really disappoints me that these sorts of things were never addressed. I can only hope that GRRM has answers to all this, he just hasnt (and at this stage, probably wont) get round to actually documenting it all properly. I feel like if there was a proper explanation of all these things, it would lend Westeros and the GoT universe to far more longevity and further adaptations/spinoffs (although it seems GRRM is opposed to this sort of thing anyway, but still). For me it just seems lazy to come up with all these cool concepts but never actually flesh them our or give any sort of explanation to how it all works and links together.
 
OleBoiii said:
Varys and Littlefinger also effectively died after they left King's Landing.
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The decision to make Varys go with Tyrion and be his tour buddy was fecked because *it doesn't do that in the books*. It was pointless for both characters as they did feck all with it. The books get a bit of a mess at this point as well though so not sure how it could've been done better tbh.
 
What does that mean, “shitting on earlier seasons”? There seems to be a pretty broad consensus for awhile now that 1-4 were great, 5 was a drop but had its moments, 6 was a return to form though not up to the previous level, 7-8 are trash.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
What does that mean, “shitting on earlier seasons”? There seems to be a pretty broad consensus for awhile now that 1-4 were great, 5 was a drop but had its moments, 6 was a return to form though not up to the previous level, 7-8 are trash.
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Not tagging me you in your post. Pussy. Come at me bro.
 
Sylar said:
Id like to see peoples path for the same big points from s7
-Dany loses a dragon, NK takes dragon and brings down the wall (although I would have just not had Dany lose her dragon at that point to the NK, and used Bran being marked and on the otherside of the wall as the path for the NK to break the magic of the wall)
-Battle of winterfell
-Dany going bad
-Dany being killed by Jon / Bran becoming King.

Im sure the samepoints could have been done with the time they had but not as ... klumpy.
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I'd say the real question is how you want the NK to bypass the wall. If its due to him having a dragon then naturally you need to invent a plausible reason for Daenerys to be North of the wall. If however the NK destroys the wall in a different way then I feel like losing the first Dragon could take place at the battle of Winterfell.

Personally, I think the better story is for the humans to lose the Winterfell fight but allow them a method of retreating with whatever forces remain but have Daenerys and her dragons protect the retreat only for her to suffer a loss in the process. That way the humans manage to get away despite suffering loses but at a cost.

In turn this also makes the NK a more formidable foe than what we eventually got. Which to me was an underwhelming limp end to something that got built up for 8 seasons.
 
RedSky said:
I'd say the real question is how you want the NK to bypass the wall. If its due to him having a dragon then naturally you need to invent a plausible reason for Daenerys to be North of the wall. If however the NK destroys the wall in a different way then I feel like losing the first Dragon could take place at the battle of Winterfell.

Personally, I think the better story is for the humans to lose the Winterfell fight but allow them a method of retreating with whatever forces remain but have Daenerys and her dragons protect the retreat only for her to suffer a loss in the process. That way the humans manage to get away despite suffering loses but at a cost.

In turn this also makes the NK a more formidable foe than what we eventually got. Which to me was an underwhelming limp end to something that got built up for 8 seasons.
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...or in an earlier desperate skirmish prior to the battle of Winterfell. Maybe just post the Wall being crossed or bypassed.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
...or in an earlier desperate skirmish prior to the battle of Winterfell. Maybe just post the Wall being crossed or bypassed.
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Depends ultimately how far down you want the NK to reach in Westeros. If the ultimate goal is to have them be defeated at Winterfell then sure. Otherwise having one die at the big set piece at Winterfell would make sense. You could have all of the survivors flee back to the Twins for example which is a location all the viewers know and is right enroute to Kings Landing.
 
You’re right, ivaldo, I should have tagged you. That was a party foul. But I don’t see anyone dumping on earlier seasons where it isn’t merited.
 
Seasons 1 to 6 overall were class, some of the best tv there was.

There were a few storylines i wasnt a big fan of like the sons of the harpy, dorne, the high septon etc they werent that bad really.

To me season 7 were things start trending down and imo a few minor tweaks could have changed all season 7.

Season 7:
7s timeline was extremely rushed, especially the travel times from place to place, eurons fleet being built, the raven to dany and how long it took her to get north of the wall when they went looking for the dead, those kind of things.

If it was a 10 episode season it may not have been as noticeable as they could have spread it all out a bit more.

The whole episode were they went north of the wall to find proof of the dead was stupid; Jon falling in the water and surviving, benjen magically appearing and then not travelling on the horse with him how quickly Dany got there etc.

Dany needed to be on her way already for some reason. Maybe after they left she realises that she needs jon snow and cant risk him dying and we see her setting of and just getting there in time

Actually taking a wight back to kings landing and that final episode of season 7 was very good and helped recover season 7 for me, but they didnt do that episode north of the wall well at all. It didnt make sense.

A few simple pacing changes and a reasoning for Dany to set of after them would have saved season 7 in my eyes.

Then onto season 8. I think episode 1 and 2 were perfectly fine. Episode 2 however lead us to believe a few key deaths would happen in the great war and it just didnt deliver.

So a few things id change and some talking points that i think were ok in season 8.

The great war and its build up/aftermath:

1. More deaths in the great war were needed - Id also have killed of jamie, tormund, podric and ser davos. I think a lot more "main" characters needed to die after the build up to the great war and the army of the deads threat.

2. Jaime - should die protecting brienne. He should never have went back to Cersei after that convo with her in the final episode of season 7. He knew what she really was in that moment. Their relationship should have ended right there. They could have had Jaime and brienne sleeping together the night before the battle instead of arya and gendry.

3. Brienne - survives the battle as she did and finishes his story in the book.

4. Theon dying helping bran was fine.

5. Jorah dying protecting dany was fine.

6. The dead rising in the crypt should have been thought about by Jon after seeing the nk raise the dead. Major plot hole but i guess you could argue jon may have thought it was only the dead the nk was responsible for killing that could be risen again.

7. The NK not dying by fire was ok with me.

8. I know alot of people didnt like the dothraki riding straight in to the army of the dead but that was fine for me, thats what they were, what they knew, its how they fought.

9. Arya killing the night king was always the way. It was just a bit anticlimactic how it happened.

I think Jon should have made it past the dragon into the goodwood and had a major fight with the Nk and Arya then comes through as she did just before the NK kills Jon. We didnt really see them face of against one another.

10. This would then make jon walking past sam ok. His objective was to kill the nk not save his friend and if the nk and jon squared of it would have helped with showing the importance of walking past his best friend.

It should have been discussed or acknowledged between the 2 after as well.

11. Jon standing in front of the dragon was stupid. Take that out altogether and it is replaced with him fighting the nk.

The last war and its build up/aftermath:

13. Varys death and the lead up to this was fine for me. He was always about the relm right from the first season and he seen what was going to happen and try to change it. Its what he always done.

14. Dany - going mad and burning kings landing was inevitable, it just needed more time and slightly more flesh to set into motion. It was foreshadowed throughout and was inevitable on 2nd watch that it was going to happen tbh.

I wouldnt have had her dragon dying to the iron fleet in episode 4, how that happened was stupid. They should have had it dying in the war for the throne episode at the hand of the scorpions just as another reason on top of missandei getting beheaded.

15. There was to many dothraki and unsullied in the second battle for what it had shown died at the hands of the nk and his army. A simple fix.

16. Arya should take jaimes face and kill cersi. Arya now becomes a full time assassin going forward protecting Westeros. I think her plot in the war with the Lannisters was stupid, alot of the episode was spent on her with nothing to show for it. She had to be the one killing both the nk and Cersei after virtually a whole season was spent on her ascension to this killer.

17. The hound and mountain was fine. That had to happen. Im glad to have seen the hound come back and save arya in the battle.

17. Jon had to kill dany, but i think he should have had to fight through greyworm to make it happen.

Greyworm had to die here. No way he allows her to die without killing Jon after.

18. The aftermath of this would all need slowed down but basically Jon still not wanting to be king.

All the lords and ladies of westeros, with a newly released tyrion would discuss what to do next as they did.

Id have ended with them all combining to make the 7 kingdoms being ruled by a panel from one member of each house.

No more rule by one person, break the wheel.

Sansa for the starks.
Jon for the targs
Tyrion for the lannisters
Gendry for the barethons
Yara for the greyjoys
Robin for the arryns
Edmure for the tullys
Prince from dorne

Most of the other houses were either wiped out or to unimportant to have a seat at the table.

Sam as grand maester and bran as the 3 eyed raven advising them all.

Brienne as a newly crowned knight would lead the leaders guard.

Arya still goes west as an assassin

Think ive covered all the main characters there and main talking points.

Everyone would have different opinions on how it ended but this is sort of were im at with it after second watch.

Whatever they done it just needed fleshed out, more episodes to slow it down after the battles before moving on. A bit more reflection and slower pacing between the great war, the last war, and the crowning of the next king was required and could have been achieved with 10 episodes
 
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Walrus said:
One of the biggest disappointments for me was that I feel like there is so much more about the world in GoT that never gets examined or answered. For example:

What causes winter? Do the white walkers cause it, or are they caused by it?
Why does magic become more prominent during winter?
Why do dragons show up during winter?
Why are the seasons so long? What affects the length and severity?
What actual is west of Westeros?
R'hllor seems to be a deity with some actual tangible power. Whats the deal with that vs the other gods that are worshipped?
What really happened to Old Valeria? Also, dragonglass and Valerian steel.

As someone who enjoyed the extended lore of the LOTR universe, it really disappoints me that these sorts of things were never addressed. I can only hope that GRRM has answers to all this, he just hasnt (and at this stage, probably wont) get round to actually documenting it all properly. I feel like if there was a proper explanation of all these things, it would lend Westeros and the GoT universe to far more longevity and further adaptations/spinoffs (although it seems GRRM is opposed to this sort of thing anyway, but still). For me it just seems lazy to come up with all these cool concepts but never actually flesh them our or give any sort of explanation to how it all works and links together.
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In my (shite) head all of the religions were based on one traveller and the story of its origin branched off depending on who was telling the story. And that traveller was a being that drew power from sacrifices who merged their consciousness with it until it could eventually affect things directly in the past. The Night King saw its death and wanted to prevent this so it hunted the being down, but it was too late. It had merged with the last consciousness it needed to in order to gain the ability to alter events enough so that it could escape. Which it managed to do when it made Hodor hold the door. Because Bran really is no longer Bran, he's a part of the Three Eyed Raven. A character that was shown to be able to affect events in the past.

Yeah, it's shit but I got so pissed at the end of the show I rewrote the last two seasons and that was a part of it. That part is sad as feck, I'm aware.

The whole theme running through my story was that religion isn't destiny and life isn't preordained. The biggest trope in fantasy is the Legendary Character that will come back to save everyone and GRRM has always said that he hates fantasy tropes. In my mind this leads towards characters finding out that their lives work isn't going to be saved at the last second by some magical character. It's up to people to forge alliances and work together for a better world otherwise we're all fecked.
 
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Mr Pigeon said:
In my (shite) head all of the religions were based on one traveller and the story of its origin branched off depending on who was telling the story. And that traveller was a being that drew power from sacrifices who merged their consciousness with it until it could eventually affect things directly in the past. The Night King saw its death and wanted to prevent this so it hunted the being down, but it was too late. It had merged with the last consciousness it needed to in order to gain the ability to alter events enough so that it could escape. Which it managed to do when it made Hodor hold the door. Because Bran really is no longer Bran, he's a part of the Three Eyed Raven. A character that was shown to be able to affect events in the past.

Yeah, it's shit but I got so pissed at the end of the show I rewrote the last two seasons and that was a part of it. That part is sad as feck, I'm aware.
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Everybody in their own mind has re wrote the last 2 seasons i think and no two persons will be the same.

Thats what they were up against.

They just didnt give themselves a chance with cutting it so short.

It honestly should have been 10 seasons of 10 episodes and fleshed out at the same pacing the first 6 had
 
arnie_ni said:
Everybody in their own mind has re wrote the last 2 seasons i think and no two persons will be the same.

Thats what they were up against.

They just didnt give themselves a chance with cutting it so short.

It honestly should have been 10 seasons of 10 episodes and fleshed out at the same pacing the first 6 had
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Yeah but the difference is that my idea is tooootally better than everyone else's. Right......?
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The whole theme running through my story was that religion isn't destiny and life isn't preordained. The biggest trope in fantasy is the Legendary Character that will come back to save everyone and GRRM has always said that he hates fantasy tropes. In my mind this leads towards characters finding out that their lives work isn't going to be saved at the last second by some magical character. It's up to people to forge alliances and work together for a better world otherwise we're all fecked.
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There is a good interview with GRRM from ages back (pre-GoT) where he said how he would love to create a fantasy world where the "chosen one" has already failed, before the story even starts. This led rise to a lot of theories that in ASOIF, the "Prince that was promised" prophecy was actually meant to be referring to Rhaegar Targeryan. Its a shame GRRM is so old and slow now, he may have taken the books in a completely different direction to what the show did. He might still try to - he has hinted that he wants to "reward" the book-readers patience by giving them something new and different [to the TV show], its more just a question of his health and whether he ends up finishing it.

On the above, probably the biggest shame will be if GRRM does die/become incapable of finishing the books, the TV show ending will be the only one anyone gets to know or experience.
 
Definitely there were stupid things in season 7, however mostly i was pissed by season 8 and specially its last 4 episodes.

I would only slightly change the first two episodes in which i would show how night king and his army first clear out the wall and all its people and only Beric and Tormund manage to get away.

Furthermore, at the end of episode 1 and 2 give last 2 minutes to show how night king as his army swept away Karstarks and Umbers. Build up the tension. As there are literally 100k against few thousand it would be an absolute mauling but that will show the threat to watchers.

In episode 3, give us the night king and John fight. Firstly don't give Theon a weak death. Show him give night king a tough time but ultimately NK being too good for him. Then John comes up and tries to take him and he is still too hot to handle for him aswell, just as he was about to kill Jon, Arya saves the day and kill him. Maybe add some White walkers vs Major characters fight (Briene, Jorah, Edd, Tormund, Jamie etc) and show some of them dieing fighting them.

Moving on to Cersie and battle of kings landing. Show that they have only the northern army left and even that is depleted and they have two dragons. Dragons are creating havoc and it appears to be a one sided battle and bells starts ringing and everybody relaxes and thinks battle is over. However, Euron plays naughty despite surrendering fires one last shot and kills one dragon and Cersie also releases caches of wild fire hidden, which kills 90% of Dany's army which ever is left.

This will enrage Dany and then kings landing is burnt to the ground, her dragon being shot and army being decimated gives her a possible cause for getting mad, maybe add Missendei being burnt alive infront of her from wildfire while she could not do anything.

We can still play the Jon kills Dany angle. However, rightfully Jon gets the throne as not only he was built up for it for 8 seasons, he came back from dead, killed two white walkers in single combat etc and lastly he is the actual heir to the throne or Jon. This all makes more sense then the shit show we actually got.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The whole theme running through my story was that religion isn't destiny and life isn't preordained. The biggest trope in fantasy is the Legendary Character that will come back to save everyone and GRRM has always said that he hates fantasy tropes. In my mind this leads towards characters finding out that their lives work isn't going to be saved at the last second by some magical character. It's up to people to forge alliances and work together for a better world otherwise we're all fecked.
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Very much agree with this and I'd go further and suggest that it's saying religion and life are, in a sense, literally defined by working together. The only characters whose foretold futures came to pass are those who worked against everyone else for their self interest (with altruistic rebellion against the order being net, if not always, rewarded across characters). Cersei and Dany both fulfil their horrible foretold destinies by pursuing their own goals over even their own perceived sense of greater good (Cersei turns against family, Dany becomes the cruel tyrant she consciously tried not to be).
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
Definitely there were stupid things in season 7, however mostly i was pissed by season 8 and specially its last 4 episodes.

I would only slightly change the first two episodes in which i would show how night king and his army first clear out the wall and all its people and only Beric and Tormund manage to get away.

Furthermore, at the end of episode 1 and 2 give last 2 minutes to show how night king as his army swept away Karstarks and Umbers. Build up the tension. As there are literally 100k against few thousand it would be an absolute mauling but that will show the threat to watchers.

In episode 3, give us the night king and John fight. Firstly don't give Theon a weak death. Show him give night king a tough time but ultimately NK being too good for him. Then John comes up and tries to take him and he is still too hot to handle for him aswell, just as he was about to kill Jon, Arya saves the day and kill him. Maybe add some White walkers vs Major characters fight (Briene, Jorah, Edd, Tormund, Jamie etc) and show some of them dieing fighting them.

Moving on to Cersie and battle of kings landing. Show that they have only the northern army left and even that is depleted and they have two dragons. Dragons are creating havoc and it appears to be a one sided battle and bells starts ringing and everybody relaxes and thinks battle is over. However, Euron plays naughty despite surrendering fires one last shot and kills one dragon and Cersie also releases caches of wild fire hidden, which kills 90% of Dany's army which ever is left.

This will enrage Dany and then kings landing is burnt to the ground, her dragon being shot and army being decimated gives her a possible cause for getting mad, maybe add Missendei being burnt alive infront of her from wildfire while she could not do anything.

We can still play the Jon kills Dany angle. However, rightfully Jon gets the throne as not only he was built up for it for 8 seasons, he came back from dead, killed two white walkers in single combat etc and lastly he is the actual heir to the throne or Jon. This all makes more sense then the shit show we actually got.
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A lot of my thoughts are similar to yours as i posted above.

Some more main characters had to die in the first battle.

Jon had to have a 1 v 1 with night king

Danys 2 dragons should have survived until the 2nd battle with one dying enraging ger further.

All the same as me.
 
Its already been posted at some point, im sure. But I really enjoy this video;

 
Fingeredmouse said:
Very much agree with this and I'd go further and suggest that it's saying religion and life are, in a sense, literally defined by working together. The only characters whose foretold futures came to pass are those who worked against everyone else for their self interest (with altruistic rebellion against the order being net, if not always, rewarded across characters). Cersei and Dany both fulfil their horrible foretold destinies by pursuing their own goals over even their own perceived sense of greater good (Cersei turns against family, Dany becomes the cruel tyrant she consciously tried not to be).
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Nail, head. We can create our own echo chamber now.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
Season 1-5 is the peak of television.
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5 is actually very weak compared to 1-4 and 6. 6 has some of the best moments in the entire show, and I think that the season finale is not only the best GoT episode, but one of the greatest episodes in the history of television.

5 is still better than 7, and particularly 8, but it was definitely weaker than the others. In fact, I don't remember too much of it except the battle with the Whitewalkers and Stannis burning his daughter with Jon getting killed. I think there was a lot of nonsense there, especially with the ninja girls and the entire Dorne arch.
 
After the re watch my overall opinion hasnt changed, still the best show on tv.

Going to try the books now.
 
Why do people seem to hate the Dorne part of the show?

It didn't seem to jar me when I watched it.
 
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The Cat said:
Why do people seem to hate the Dorne part of the show?

It didn't seem to jar me when I watched it.
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From a book reader POV they watered down one of the more exciting, political intrigues from the later books and essentially reduced them to soap opera characters with no real influence over their story. They were basically fan service because of how well Oberyn was received.

Also the Sand Snakes were acted terribly and arguably had the worse dialogue on the whole show.
 
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