Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

iluvoursolskjær said:
Her madness seemed to begin to seriously manifest in the paranoia she developed after having defeated the white walkers and every one was celebrating Jon. He compounded it by taking away her legitimacy by revealing his identity to her and making it worse by sharing it with others - of whom Varys conspired to kill her. The cherry on the cake seemed to be when Jon confirmed he's not looking to be romantically involved with her, which potentially left her feeling massively vulnerable about others pressing his claim in the future, hence she goes 'fear it is then'. Paranoia and the trauma of losing those close to her seem to be what triggered the madness.

Yeah things happened all a bit too quick, but something was always looking to turn with her. Everything's just on fast forward because of the limited air time.
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Yeah i would agree with that but like you said it all happened too quickly. And the moment they chose for her to crazy didn't make sense either, she didn't burn shit down because of any trigger in the moment is what makes it strange for me.
 
lsd said:
The fact people have been saying for years Dany will turn mad surely defeats this theory that it came out of nowhere .

We have all seen this coming whether you want to admit it or not
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Wrong. It's not about this being one of the probable outcomes but how well it is told and subsequently how believable, or not, it is. In this case it's terribly written and came across shodily. I have to issue with her being a wacko. Never liked the character to begin with. But breaking bad is something that has to be done tastefully to pull off successfully.
 
2mufc0 said:
Yeah i would agree with that but like you said it all happened too quickly. And the moment they chose for her to crazy didn't make sense either, she didn't burn shit down because of any trigger in the moment is what makes it strange for me.
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Yeah it was strange for sure, just when she had had grasped victory. It doesn't completely explain it, but along with the madness there were signs of decaying morality (or nobleness) so that was the writers way of easing her into being willing to murders tens of thousands - partly to instil that fear, and partly a feck you to those that try to use her mercy as a tool against her.

Gotta do loads of gymnastics to connect those dots though :lol:
 
Surely we can all agree that the mountain Vs hound scrap provided the two best comedy moments of the season... Cersei's walk off and "will you just feckin die".
 
R.N7 said:
I like the fact she turned and would have been disappointed if she hadn't. It's good that the fans are outraged though, might help spare us a spin-off series.
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:lol: Yeah they are going to change plans just because a bunch of stupid people named their kids after a fantasy character who was always a bit unhinged.

Nah, we'll get endless amounts of them I reckon. It's a license to print money.
 
GhastlyHun said:
Why in this instant in which nothing notable happens? Does she suddenly have bell-related PTSD?
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This is such a daft question.

It’s the straw that broke the camels back. There is a whole string of recent events which have poisoned her already fragile mind.

She’s also in the middle of a crazy stressful situation, with tonnes of adrenaline running through her and the feeling of absolute power.

It’s so weird that people are moaning that she acted crazy and did some irrational things.

There has been a clear and linear story arc leading to exactly this point.
 
Dany was always going to turn and go evil. That's never been the issue, how quickly she went into madness is. They should never have reduced it to 6 episodes, it was impossible to not rush things
 
kouroux said:
Dany was always going to turn and go evil. That's never been the issue, how quickly she went into madness is. They should never have reduced it to 6 episodes, it was impossible to not rush things
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Exactly. It was just terribly done. Never liked the character much so I haven't an issue with her going bonkers.
 
Massive Spanner said:
that's stupid. All of those things were done by characters that we already knew were capable of doing them. The whole problem with Dany going mental is that there was zero to suggest she was capable of burning an entire fecking city (the same city she's wanted to rule for most of her life) to the ground, after it already surrendered.
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How did we know Walder Frey was capable of that? We had only met him once before when he agreed to marry his daughter to Rob. We literally knew nothing about him.

With Dany we had her advisers pleading with her not to burn the city down both last season and again this season. They told her that if she wanted the people to love her then she couldn't burn the city. We heard earlier in the episode that she had decided that she wouldn't be loved so would rule by fear.

Stopping the battle as soon as the Lanisters surrendered wouldn't elicit the type of fear she was after. Burning down the Red Keep wouldn't elicit the type of fear she was after. If she really wanted the people to really fear her and her dragon she had to go ballistic.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Exactly. It was just terribly done. Never liked the character much so I haven't an issue with her going bonkers.
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They somehow missed the opportunity to make a closeup on her face enjoying the carnage. A bit surprised by that.
Now they want us to root for the most naive and luckiest man in the 7 kingdoms.
Not many people talk about how they've also butchered Tyrion's character, making him soft and so so stupid.
 
R.N7 said:
I like the fact she turned and would have been disappointed if she hadn't. It's good that the fans are outraged though, might help spare us a spin-off series.
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I think it was an ideal turn to end the show but it was handled terribly. Although par for the course at this point.
 
Fully Fledged said:
How did we know Walder Frey was capable of that? We had only met him once before when he agreed to marry his daughter to Rob. We literally knew nothing about him.

With Dany we had her advisers pleading with her not to burn the city down both last season and again this season. They told her that if she wanted the people to love her then she couldn't burn the city. We heard earlier in the episode that she had decided that she wouldn't be loved so would rule by fear.

Stopping the battle as soon as the Lanisters surrendered wouldn't elicit the type of fear she was after. Burning down the Red Keep wouldn't elicit the type of fear she was after. If she really wanted the people to really fear her and her dragon she had to go ballistic.
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Nah fam :lol:
A dragon alone without burning much is enough to elicit fear and besides she's been saying for a while she didn't wanna elicit fear only.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Exactly. It was just terribly done. Never liked the character much so I haven't an issue with her going bonkers.
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Pretty much how I see it.

From the very first season she was hinted, and at times openly spoke about, going mad. As other have said, it's the rushed nature that's jarring and that's partly thanks to a short season and partly thanks to them never quite getting things across well enough on screen.

Whatever way you look at it though, it really isn't a surprise.
 
kouroux said:
They somehow missed the opportunity to make a closeup on her face enjoying the carnage. A bit surprised by that.
Now they want us to root for the most naive and luckiest man in the 7 kingdoms.
Not many people talk about how they've also butchered Tyrion's character, making him soft and so so stupid.
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We've been talking about that for seasons now. It's old news tbf.
 
This must have already been discussed but how did Drogon manage to evade all the scorpions? There were so many ships in the Iron Fleet. How could they not get a single hit on Drogon. it made no sense to me.
 
Redlambs said:
Pretty much how I see it.

From the very first season she was hinted, and at times openly spoke about, going mad. As other have said, it's the rushed nature that's jarring and that's partly thanks to a short season and partly thanks to them never quite getting things across well enough on screen.

Whatever way you look at it though, it really isn't a surprise.
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The hints were there, but if they really intended it before this season then I don't think they would have been hints, they would have been giant neon signs saying "MENTALIST! SHE'S A MENTALIST!!" They abandoned all subtlety ages ago. The only way they manage surprises now is by total ass pulls from out of nowhere.

I'm convinced the decision for her to go nuts was when they were writing this season and wanted to shock. It had nothing to do with any hints from before.
 
Fully Fledged said:
There are more people in Westeros than those living in Kingslanding.
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Yeah but Kings Landing is the only fecking part of Westeros that doesn't already see her as being queen, why does she need to illicit fear in the North and Iron Islands where their rulers already serve her, exactly?
 
Art Vandelay said:
The hints were there, but if they really intended it before this season then I don't think they would have been hints, they would have been giant neon signs saying "MENTALIST! SHE'S A MENTALIST!!" They abandoned all subtlety ages ago. The only way they manage surprises now is by total ass pulls from out of nowhere.

I'm convinced the decision for her to go nuts was when they were writing this season and wanted to shock. It had nothing to do with any hints from before.
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That's clearly nonsense though, you even said there's hints!

I completely agree with you that is was rushed trash how they did it, but she was ALWAYS going to heel turn, I just don't get how that's even a point of contention.

Btw, though not speaking to her drastic character change (so don't get that confused), but the bell talk at the start is exactly what you are saying with their big stupid neon signs :lol:
 
Massive Spanner said:
Yeah but Kings Landing is the only fecking part of Westeros that doesn't already see her as being queen, why does she need to illicit fear in the North and Iron Islands where their rulers already serve her, exactly?
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Because the people up North didn't treat her with respect. Not only the Lady of Winterfell but the plebs scowled at her and spat at her friends and advisers. She said to Jon your people don't love me. They will turn on me if they know you have a claim.
 
I don't think her going mad is a problem. At all. In fact I'd wager GRRM wrote it that way.

But the way it was told was garbage, and it didn't have to be. Her father had visions, heard voices. So just literally put those in, like 3 times.

1: Scene where everyone is ra'ing Jon, focus on Danys face - have whispering come into the audio quoting from past episodes about never being loved in Westeros

2: scene where shes leaning against a pillar when Jon walks in: have more whispering as she stares into space, maybe this time the sound of flames and screaming from when she burned the dothraki tent. Then show her snap back to reality

3: when shes sitting hearing the bells , meld in Messeindei screaming draconis, then her yelling it various times, and ending with her eyes opening with fire reflecting in them.

There you go. All done in post, no need to film anything new, she goes mad.
 
Fully Fledged said:
She said when Jon turned her down. 'It's fear then.' I'm sure you people don't watch the show.
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People watch it and don't share your views, it's as simple as that. I'll say it, her going crazy isn't the issue, it's how fast it happened and in the context of a city surrendering.
It's just too quick and is obviously a way to paint as evil as possible so that when she dies in the finale, fans won't feel bad about it.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Because the people up North didn't treat her with respect. Not only the Lady of Winterfell but the plebs scowled at her and spat at her friends and advisers. She said to Jon your people don't love me. They will turn on me if they know you have a claim.
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Right and her solution to that is to burn the entire city. That makes sense. Those Northener's always have been big softies who cave to that sort of thing.

Anyway what you're sort of implying is that she actually thought it through as opposed to just going batshit crazy once the bells went off which is probably even more dumb if that's the way the writers planned it.

By the way nobody has an issue with Dany going mad queen, I don't, I've always felt it'd probably happen, it was just done in a really terrible, daft way.
 
Art Vandelay said:
The hints were there, but if they really intended it before this season then I don't think they would have been hints, they would have been giant neon signs saying "MENTALIST! SHE'S A MENTALIST!!" They abandoned all subtlety ages ago. The only way they manage surprises now is by total ass pulls from out of nowhere.

I'm convinced the decision for her to go nuts was when they were writing this season and wanted to shock. It had nothing to do with any hints from before.
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I don't want the people that make the entertainment that I watch to telegraph what's going to happen in the show. I want to have to work some things out for myself.
 
Beachryan said:
I don't think her going mad is a problem. At all. In fact I'd wager GRRM wrote it that way.

But the way it was told was garbage, and it didn't have to be. Her father had visions, heard voices. So just literally put those in, like 3 times.

1: Scene where everyone is ra'ing Jon, focus on Danys face - have whispering come into the audio quoting from past episodes about never being loved in Westeros

2: scene where shes leaning against a pillar when Jon walks in: have more whispering as she stares into space, maybe this time the sound of flames and screaming from when she burned the dothraki tent. Then show her snap back to reality

3: when shes sitting hearing the bells , meld in Messeindei screaming draconis, then her yelling it various times, and ending with her eyes opening with fire reflecting in them.

There you go. All done in post, no need to film anything new, she goes mad.
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Those are good ideas that would have made her switch a bit better
 
Beachryan said:
I don't think her going mad is a problem. At all. In fact I'd wager GRRM wrote it that way.

But the way it was told was garbage, and it didn't have to be. Her father had visions, heard voices. So just literally put those in, like 3 times.

1: Scene where everyone is ra'ing Jon, focus on Danys face - have whispering come into the audio quoting from past episodes about never being loved in Westeros

2: scene where shes leaning against a pillar when Jon walks in: have more whispering as she stares into space, maybe this time the sound of flames and screaming from when she burned the dothraki tent. Then show her snap back to reality

3: when shes sitting hearing the bells , meld in Messeindei screaming draconis, then her yelling it various times, and ending with her eyes opening with fire reflecting in them.

There you go. All done in post, no need to film anything new, she goes mad.
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Could have had a apparition of her father appear in the skies whilst she was listening to those bells ring

'go on lass, you know you want to, its actually pretty fun'
 
Fully Fledged said:
No it's not if she wanted everybody to fear what she could do she would let them see she was prepared to go further than Cersei.
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The Red Keep is an iconic part of Kings Landing, it's huge and it's now been severely damaged and burnt out. There were civilians in there too. It was a far greater message of fear than Cersei blowing up the Sept and the people were petrified of her. We got to see how afraid the average person was of Daenerys after the Gold Train episode when the Tarlys were burned. One roar from Drogon and the majority knelt. That was before she burnt the Tarlys. Destroying the capitals Keep whilst burning alive the current Queen and burning the Royal Guard along with a few hundred/thousand unfortunate civilians would have been a clear message. It didn't need her flattening the entire city.

You'll argue against that naturally. We all have differing opinions.
 
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