Mate, everyone had worked out that she was going to go nuts by the previous episode, people aren't complaining about that. It's how it was written and executed that people (me included) hate.Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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Mate, everyone had worked out that she was going to go nuts by the previous episode, people aren't complaining about that. It's how it was written and executed that people (me included) hate.Indeed.
But also the fact that she pretty much destroyed her main life objective, to sit on the iron throne.
She freakin destroyed the whole city, she will have to settle for the throne of dust.
Lion King style? I'm sold.
I was planning to call my son The Mountain, but feck that, he's just Darth Vader in a different suit.
Reek it is.
Reek it is.
The point I'm making is that you said she didn't want to rule by fear alone when she came out and said that she was going to rule by fear alone.
They did last time.
I've said before she has no internal mechanism that tells her when she is doing something wrong. Her advisers have played that part in the past but she has no advisers that she can trust.
Yeah, I'm with this.
We can't all like the same things, but it's when people clearly miss what's being said that it turns into a silly argument.
I can't buy itThat's clearly nonsense though, you even said there's hints!
I completely agree with you that is was rushed trash how they did it, but she was ALWAYS going to heel turn, I just don't get how that's even a point of contention.
Btw, though not speaking to her drastic character change (so don't get that confused), but the bell talk at the start is exactly what you are saying with their big stupid neon signs
She'd have been combing the hair of a severed head and staring into the distance while muttering about butterflies stealing her thoughts for the past couple of years if they'd been fully committed to this all along. Seeing how badly they've handled it, I don't believe at all they could have contained themselves until now. They'd have gone way over the top with it if they'd given it any thought before now.
I'm not saying it's not set up for her to go nuts, it's built into her character, I'm saying they only decided themselves this season it was happening. This is not something they've been building to. The fact that there's been foreshadowing is almost just luck.
It's hard to understand someone naming their child after something in the show but it's harder still to accept Khaleesi is more popular than Daenerys.
Daenerys is a much prettier name!
I just figured it out. In much the same way that other writers sort of write “themselves” into their works, so have D&D.
Think about it. If Tom Bombadil was speculated to be something of a manifestation of Tolkien, and Sam was in some ways meant to represent a GRRM character.... Dany is D&D! A horrible, horrible decision maker who was previously restrained from doing stupid shut by advisors (read: GRRM/the books). Now they are finally in command of their own actions and writing it themselves, so the shackles come from and the sheer stupidity is unleashed on us all. It mirrors Dany quite nicely.
Think about it. If Tom Bombadil was speculated to be something of a manifestation of Tolkien, and Sam was in some ways meant to represent a GRRM character.... Dany is D&D! A horrible, horrible decision maker who was previously restrained from doing stupid shut by advisors (read: GRRM/the books). Now they are finally in command of their own actions and writing it themselves, so the shackles come from and the sheer stupidity is unleashed on us all. It mirrors Dany quite nicely.
For most people that would be enough but she went further. Did she have to? Probably not. The fear it is then that she said to Jon led me to believe that this wasn't a sudden impulse. That she planned to get the people to fear her.
Maybe that is the case but we got zero hints as to it being the case.
I don't see the point in arguing this anymore, you think it was well handled, I don't. The people who think it was seem to be getting pissed off that those who didn't don't share the same opinion as them and are doing the usual thing when that happens of calling them stupid and missing the point etc., as well as for someone reason inventing what they said, like saying they are daft for not thinking she'd turn mad or not wanting her to turn mad despite nobody even saying that.
People will never unanimously enjoy a TV show, I didn't enjoy that one, whaddayagonnado?
Let's make on thing clear people.
We are angry about the way they handled her fall, not the fact she fell. That was fecking obvious from the outset and a rather George'esque thing to do.
My question; why did they decide to make so few episodes? Just make it 10 and use 4 to depict her slowly going mad. Hell, throw in a JCVD like montage for all I care.
We are angry about the way they handled her fall, not the fact she fell. That was fecking obvious from the outset and a rather George'esque thing to do.
My question; why did they decide to make so few episodes? Just make it 10 and use 4 to depict her slowly going mad. Hell, throw in a JCVD like montage for all I care.
I posted one above where Jorah talked her out of killing all the Masters. She couldn't fathom that killing thousands of people would be wrong so he had to go to, 'if Ned had ruled by that standard I wouldn't be here today.'
Apart from that 3 or 4 times her advisers have talked her out of laying waste to Kingslanding before this episode.
Well killing a few hundred masters (i.e slavers) is basically the same as burning tens of thousands of women and children to death to be fair.
Jorah said that she planned on killing thousands in the clip that I posted. Not hundreds. The masters were/are men women and children.
Which is fine, but you can get people to fear you by burning down the Keep just like Cersei did by destroying the Sept. There was no reason from my point of view that she had to burn the all of Kings Landing. Zero justification. Any normal person would have accepted that by burning the Iron Fleet and destroying the battlements (very easily) and forcing them to surrender that she had their fear. It would make sense from her perspective to go one step further and burn Cersei and the Red Keep to the ground. An act of fear, an act of revenge a symbol of her breaking the wheel. Instead she goes two steps further by not only destroying the Red Keep but destroying Kings Landing along with the murder (they had surrendered) of thousands of people.
If she's completely snapped and gone loco then ok. I'll be pissed because it's a shit story to tell, 'Daughter promises not to become father only to become father', but i'll accept it as their vision. If however she hasn't gone loco and simply did it out of rage then i'm going to be extremely annoyed.
Obviously I forgot about that scene, it doesn't make how quickly she turned evil any less dumb for me.
Burning King's Landing in its entirety wasn't necessary to instill fear
Jesus Christ, let it go. I don't see killing a bunch of slavers the same as randomly deciding to butcher tens of thousands of women and children but obviously you do so I guess that's fine.
That's obviously subjective going by those numbers you put up.
That's not even remotely true. She's been prone to harshness/cruelty to people who fought against her or betrayed her. But protecting innocents has always been a top priority. See for example her putting the "babies" in chains, because one of them roasted a shepherds daughter. If she just burns the Lannister soldiers far fewer people would complain.
Leave Daenerys alone!!!
I knew Klopp was a weirdo but naming your kid after a war criminal is a bit much even for him.
Even if you don't like her policies of burning tens of thousands of people you have to respect her ideas and engage with them.
There’s always been this weird part of the fanbase that wanted the show to end like that shitty Aladdin scene in the first episode of season one and have Daenerys and Jon living happily ever after and ruling the seven kingdoms.
You have to wonder how or why they ever watched this show in the first place.
I think it would have been much less jarring if her turn had come as an emotional response to something a bit more serious than Jon not shagging her. For example, Cersei doesn’t execute Missandei in the previous episode, but then there is a scene of Dany (and Grey Worm) being sent her head. This provokes the pair of them to get really angry, cue Dany flying straight over to KL and burning it to the ground.
It's not the same but her inability to see that killing thousands of men women and children is a symptom of her sickness IMHO. She was an abused child. Abused children often turn into abusers if given the power to do so.
We can let it go though if you don't want to debate the point anymore.
I can't buy it
She'd have been combing the hair of a severed head and staring into the distance while muttering about butterflies stealing her thoughts for the past couple of years if they'd been fully committed to this all along. Seeing how badly they've handled it, I don't believe at all they could have contained themselves until now. They'd have gone way over the top with it if they'd given it any thought before now.
I'm not saying it's not set up for her to go nuts, it's built into her character, I'm saying they only decided themselves this season it was happening. This is not something they've been building to. The fact that there's been foreshadowing is almost just luck.
Not all of us
Yeah I get that but it's little things like that that add up the reason some of us saw this coming.
I don't think it did either but I believe she thinks it did. At the end of the day it's only an opinion though.
Tyrion said last season that the difference between Dany and Cersei was that Dany picked advisors to curb her worst impulses. In other words without those advisors.....
She still had the advisers. Tyrion told her about 50 fecking times in that episode to stop if the bells went off!
Sadly yeah, that's likely the case.
Oh and to introduce Jaqen the horse who has a huge part. (giggity!)
She had one advisor left, Tyrion, who she has repeatedly accused of failing her, accused of spreading secrets that would bring her down, outright threatened and had previously ignored when he advised her not to burn people alive. So not ideal.
Yeah, even though it didn't come across so well in the show there, I think the advisers thing is supposed to play a big role. We are repeatedly told that she has at least surrounded herself with advisers that hold back her worst impulses, unlike the mad king.
Again, not a good explanation for the drastic turn, but still one of the many hints she was always a little unhinged.
Again, not a good explanation for the drastic turn, but still one of the many hints she was always a little unhinged.
When someone hires an assassin to kill you and your brother only a few weeks previously I think even the person most addicted to a toxic relationship must give up on someone at that point. Even Tyrion just forgets the fact that she wanted him dead a few weeks ago and hired an assassin to do the deed. It's just
Not just the advisors actually, I just remembered that Jon had to convince her not to attack KL with dragons last season too didn't he? Said if she did she would just be more of the same.
Another man she ain't listening too anymore given she opened the episode by accusing him of betraying her.