Yeah but this is D&D we're dealing with and
they are prone to throw stuff like that out for the sake of tv. Honestly though I completely forgot that but still wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Yeah but this is D&D we're dealing with and
It was the sandsnake:
"you want a good show, but you need the bad adaptation"
Very subtle.
We got all that in half a fecking episode. Half a fecking episode for 8 years of build up of a character. A few lines of dialogue and suddenly she's flipped into a child burning monster. I said this whole thing would be rushed and hoped they wouldn't go down this route as they wouldn't do it justice.
There is nothing wrong with killing enemies while at war, it's always been part of the show, she's been ruthless but fair? It's not like she's ever pulled a Red Wedding. The most despicable act I can remember her doing was killing and the masters and having them tied to the crosses. But they were still leaders that needed killing. The only real times she's ever disagreed with her advisers is with Tyrion. She had love and she pushed it aside to get her throne. But now that she has love again with Jon and she can't have it she's gone all bat shit mad. We're meant to think she cares about her advisors yet she fecked off fast enough on Drogon in the fighting pits leaving them surrounded still. She can't contain her angry and wants revenge and yet when her city was under siege full of people she did actually care for she was calm as a cucumber in Winds of Winter.
We're therefore meant to forget everything that's happened in the 8 seasons prior to this and believe that in 20minutes of footage she's gone bat shit insane. Gotcha. She was even calm and collected when Varys died for feck sake, no paranoia when she burned him alive. Just her usual calm and collected self. Lets hope Bran saves the day and he actually warged into Drogon and burnt the city.
So long as dragon bitch gets killed I’ll be happy
Agreed, or at least I hope that happens at some point.
As for Dany this episode. They should have had her attack the red keep directly, at least that would have made sense as there wad no reason for her not to. Have someone tell her Cersie has fled to the city, she had a reason for her actions then even if she proceeds to go too far.
I liked the Mad Queen turn but it didnt make any sense. If they had made her descent into madness more belivable it would have been great. Its just really really out of character. Also it was so damn predictable. Cersei and Jamie's death were poorly done. Euron was the worst character in GOT history, why the feck did they not talk to Arya she could have easily assasinated Cersei.
She walked into the fire because she'd lost her army, her baby and her husband. She had nothing left to live for, that was her suicide attempt. Nothing to do with her being mad and batshit insane. She'd lost everything and gave up. Now you're turning that into some sinister reason to strengthen your usual defense for D&D.
You guys really think the writers will care about that at this point? I don't think they'll do that but if they did then they'll almost certainly have forgotten about what's happened in previous seasons.
Personally I think he'll go for a good old fashioned stabbing. Maybe in the back like Jaime did to the Mad King.
Personally I think he'll go for a good old fashioned stabbing. Maybe in the back like Jaime did to the Mad King.
Yeah true. I mean we just had the "Dany forgot about the iron fleet" despite the scene before it being mentioned explicitly.
Maybe they'll say he gets burned by normal fire but he's immune to dragonfire or some shit.
Maybe they'll say he gets burned by normal fire but he's immune to dragonfire or some shit.
Aye good one too.
Or Tyrion to Sansa in season 1- you may survive us all yet Lady Stark.. Or however he said it. If Sansa comes out on top the Dany fans will be super triggered...fan forums everywhere might adopt the Baratheon words to describe their mood.
Quite impressive something being out of character and predictable at the same time
Only D&D can manage that
They have really butchered the show. We spent seasons watching Dany free slaves and do good. A dragon and a translator death later, she's burning kids. D&D only care about shocking people now.
Usual defence? Odd thing to say since I hardly defend them. Unless youre confusing me with somebody else. Only defence Ive had for them is to say they were always gonna lose as they wouldnt be able to please everybody as somebody would always have something to complain about.
Wrt Dany, youve basically made the comparison and parallel. She went into the fire cos she lost everything.
However now, shes lost everything now too. Her claim to Jon. Her advisor, two of her dragons, missandei and just had Varys plot against her. Jon basically being hesitant with her pushed her over the edge and hence her line 'Let it be fear'. Tyrion was the only sane advisor she had left, and he kept fcking up, so Dany had lost all hope in listening to him and his apologies.
You of course dont agree, and thats fine. But thats how i saw it based on what was said in the episode and how its gone throughout the seasons. She had nobody holding her back and now is taking everything, and what she worked her whole life for, the crown, through fear (which in her mind means doing the opposite of what Tyrion wanted)
I like how they in the recap at the start of last night's episode they added ominous voice overs and made her look crazy. Gee I wonder where this is going?
I also hope we get to see Arya use her face mask skills at least once this season.
I also hope we get to see Arya use her face mask skills at least once this season.
Jamie's plot was very good, one of the best on the show. In life people are prone to relapsing, the fact that Jaime was on the way to redeem himself doesn't mean that he was not conflicted anymore — and he loved Cersei for all of his life. When he helped the realm of men, he felt that the love for Cersei (and their unborn child) is stronger than his feeling of righteousness or honour. So this "but what was the point of his story if he came back to Cersei" criticism is just weird.
Didn't everything come true?
Guessing that was a book reference, which crossed over into this. I think.
I've been on Team Sansa since she rocked the hot feather dress.
I think your Tyrion quote actually was foreshadowing...
It wasn't just half an episode though.
Episode one of this season ended with Sam calling out Dany to Jon based on stuff that had happened in previous seasons. As soon as Tyrion and Varys found out about Jon they considered switching to him, based on what they had learned of Dany's character from previous seasons. That couldn't have happened if she hadn't been pushing the line of what's acceptable up to now. Sam, Varys and Tyrion's doubts about her were entirely justifiable prior to this week's episode, which demonstrates that the show had in fact been building to this. That's aside from years of hearing characters pointing out that half the Targs went mad anyway, creating a giant flashing "this could happen here" sign in the viewer's mind.
You're saying she was ruthless but fair up to now but again, that's part of what's intended to be a subversive twist. The story wins you over to the character and has her do brutal things in a way that you can justify up to a certain point, until she eventually crosses the line and you realise the character you were invested in had been heading in this direction for a while. If they had introduced a new character who did the things Dany has done (crucify people, burn POWs alive, threaten to attack a city in a way that murders thousands of civillians, repeatedly talk about claiming a throne with fire and blood) we'd immediately identify that character as a bad guy. Yet because we saw it through the lens of her being the protagonist we can say "yeah but she did that because...." whenever she did those things up to now. If you were unable to find some "ruthless but fair" spin to put on her past actions then the build up to this ultimate twist would have been off.
Everyone in Essos loves her and adores her, that keeps her humanity in check. Once she came to Westeros, she realised that the only stories that made it over the sea was her dragons and her slaughter of the masters.
Everything was about Westeros, her marrying a savage, eating a horse's heart and watching her favourite subjects die (dragons and humans), just to have the continent not love her but distrust and fear her... That fecked her up.
Maybe I am confusing you with someone else. There was someone on here who's defended the show's decisions and argued for D&D in every post. @Redlambs will probably remember who that is. Apologies I got you mixed up.
Daenerys hadn't lost everything though. She still had a huge feck off dragon, she still had 2 armies (somehow???). At worst, she'd have to kill Jon, but he has constantly been telling her that she's his queen and he doesn't want the crown. Greyworm is still loyal to a tee, Jon has remained loyal as has Tyrion. She had plenty still going her way and she has no idea how the civilians would treat her once Cersei was finished off. That is a woman that blew up their religious temple and killed people the average civilians did care about. These are arguments that Tyrion never made to Daenerys, he just did the usual "she's a monster, they dont love her" yet then tries to rationale with Cersei last episode that she isn't a monster...?
It's just them cocking up Tyrion and Daenerys characters that annoys me. They were two characters I found interesting from the start, Daenerys (we'll ignore Season 2 Daenerys) and Tyrion both had really complicated and interesting joureys and yet where they are right now doesn't stack up to me. Daenerys the Mad Queen would have worked if the writers didn't go All In and have her melt the entire city. I guarantee that was done so we could follow Arya stumble through the city and survive for cool cinematics rather than actual character reasoning. Her melting the Red Keep wouldnt have been cool enough for D&D.
Lady Sansa has ruined the royal bloodline by marrying a freakin' Jonas Brother #truthisstrangerthanfiction
Only D&D can manage that
They have really butchered the show. We spent seasons watching Dany free slaves and do good. A dragon and a translator death later, she's burning kids. D&D only care about shocking people now.
You also spent seasons watching Dany do things that were clearly unacceptable, like crucifying people, burning POWs alive and threatening to burn thousands of civillians alive to win the throne. The fact that you simply thought of it as her freeing slaves and doing good up to now is how the twist works, not a flaw in it. You're supposed to now get that you were somewhat duped into thinking she was a hero.
The main theme throughout the entire series is everyone has the capacity for good and bad. Dany has done a lot of good and has fallen to her capacity to do bad, the only thing is, her bad can cause a lot of deaths in a short time. I can't see Jon wanting to stay now and can see him heading north of the wall. Don't forget he witnessed his own men becoming savages as well. His entire moral beliefs in his fellow man would have been destroyed in that instance.
Why not? This is basically fan fiction and someone else can write up their version of the remaining story and HBO could produce it, if they thought it would generate enough money for them.
Also let's not forget that Dany no longer has trusted advisers, there's no longer anyone to temper her vengfulness
For burning two military leaders that wouldn't accept her as Queen. She didn't want to kill both, that was Sams idiotic brother following Daddy to the grave and stubborn racist father being a prick. It's war time.
I don't seem to recall they actually listed any specifics on why she was a bad ruler though? That was a conversation less about Daenerys and more about bigging up Jon.
There is nothing to spin though. All of these things she did during war. Again, she attacked the city in the first part of this episode by destroying all of the battlements, she had the battle won with minimal civilian loss. The city had surrendered. How is her saying she wanted to attack Kings Landing in Dragonstone episode a bad thing? She proved it could be done this episode without much civilian loss of life. Explain to me how burning two military commanders relates to burning down the entire city full of thousands of innocent women and children. There isn't. This is no 'twist' because we've never seen her be Evil. Instead we're meant to believe that she snapped this episode and has become completely Evil for no real reason other than she wasn't loved enough...? Righto.
Meanwhile D&D have us feeling all sorry for Cersei and Jaime playing the sad music while they're about to die. feck right off. She's been a cartoon villain for the past 2 seasons with her smug expressions, betraying everyone, killing innocent people and burning rightful rulers, not giving two shits that her child committed suicide, torturing and beheading prisoners. Yet we're somehow meant to ignore all of that and feel sad that shes going to die. Just a load of bumfluff.
I thought the scenes showing civilians being killed were great, something thats not normally shown in these type of tv shows/films. But having Arya walk around half dead to give us that visual was silly. As was her whole reason for going to Kings Landing to kill Cersei only to have cold feet about dying. She fought the fecking walking dead and survived and now she's finally got to her main wish of killing Cersei she bails? Urgh.
He's not fireproof. They showed this in previous seasons I thought?
I guess the question is whether fire is different to dragonfire. *shrugs*.
But he's certainly not fire proof, that was shown back in Season 1.
Said it before but feck the Tarlys. Pair of proud idiots.
She said bend the knee, they refused. She was open to them going to wall and they refused again.
She said bend the knee, they refused. She was open to them going to wall and they refused again.
Aye, that is important given that Tyrion outright stated in a previous season that the difference between Dany and Cersei was that Dany picked advisors to check her worst impulses. Without that she was always capable of doing something bad.
I don't think any ending or final season is going to be satisfactory.
There are so many layers and strands to this show that you can't keep everyone happy. The writers, actors and crew were probably relieved this was the final series when the time came to film it.
Even GRRM can't be bothered to finish the book series. But I suspect he intended Dany to go this way.
Shamelessly stolen, but — meanwhile in Essos
I haven't read the books, I've just watched a YouTube video explaining the stuff that happened before season one with the Mad King.
Can you refresh my understanding? Was the wildfire a last resort for the Mad King? Or did he have time to have a proper battle against the rebellion.
But yeah in either scenario she's worse.
I agree, it works from her character angle, just not the sheer level of destruction she showed in this episode. Burning the Red Keep and killing everyone inside (including the civilians we were shown to be going in when the doors was barred) would have been enough to show she's got that bad mean streak and she's ruthless to the point of crossing the line. But not to the point where she becomes a monster after murdering an entire cities population. Not sure thats what GRRM intended. As for the books, I think we'll have both before end of 2021.
Thank god Aaron Rodgers was there to save the show. Best episode in a while, all thanks to him.
@RedSky You're arguing that there was nothing wrong with Dany burning the two POWs alive, despite the show explicitly showing us Tyrion, Varys, Sam and Jon all thinking that there was (and that it was a sign of her potential for terrible behaviour). You're not supposed to still think that was okay or part of what is acceptable in war time as the show has gone out of its way to highlight that it wasn't by having a load of morally "right" characters disapprove of it. If you weren't already on board with that realisation then it's hardly a surprise that you're at odds with the show moving further in that direction. Morally speaking you were already giving Dany more credit than she deserved prior to this.
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