Of course its indefensible, shes mad.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Of course its indefensible, shes mad.
Yeah she did go a bit nuts. I think that's what they were trying to show though. She's just like her dad now.
Can dragon fire melt steel beams?. I think not. There is so much evidence to suggest that its an internal plot. It was all controlled demolitions. Conspiracy!!!
It's comments like this that make me realize the show is still pretty awesome. It's not a fairy tale where good is good and bad is bad and good always wins.. And in a way that's far more realistic and sets this show apart from many others.
Revenge on the west. Revenge on everybody. And yes, its indefensible. Thats what will have everybody sane turn on her now. Whereas in her mind she will think she did what she needed to do, to take everything away from Cersei. Maybe thats her thinking of this ending the wheel? Or maybe she believes everybody will now fear her and accept her.
I reckon if Cersei gets burnt alive or killed by Jaime, there would be complaints.
I reckon if Dany wins and rules happily, there would be complaints.
I think I said it before the season started. A lot of people are watching this not with the view to see how things are done, but with the expectation of how it should be in their mind. Dont get me wrong, there are some really bad stuff like Euron, but for the most part its been an enjoyable spectacle.
So how does the imininent battle go?
Entire North (ie including free folk) versus Unsullied, Dothraki and a dragon?
Entire North (ie including free folk) versus Unsullied, Dothraki and a dragon?
Exactly. The most important quote of GoT is probably still Ramsay's: if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
I'm guessing it will be something stupid like Jon "tricking" her alone going for a kiss or something then stab her, the show is stupid like that now.
Yet the likes of Sam, Varys and Tyrion all had serious doubts about her prior to this. Her character was already seriously in question, despite all the stuff you mention. The fact that you're able to somewhat justify her previous bad actions is the point of the twist, you were supposed to be excusing it until suddenly you weren't. The story duped you into overlooking crucifixions & summary executions because it was a "good guy" doing it.
Dany going bad (which has been her ultimate fate all along) was always going to involve her crossing a line at some point between what the audience sees as justifiable carnage to unjustifiable carnage. All they can do to lay the ground for that is have her pushing the limits of justifable violence to breaking point beforehand, which they did by having her burn POWs alive and repeatedly threaten to reign fire down on King's Landing at huge cost of civilian lives.
Just having her burn Cersei (as you suggest) because it would be "enjoyable" wouldn't be doing anything with the character because that's already more justifiable then other stuff she's done. This is where all the "enjoyable" violence she's inflicted before stops. You might as well say "change the ending of the story and keep her a hero". She has to transgress at some point.
I dont think its been perfect. Ideally we would have had better dialogue, a longer season, but we knew 2-3 years ago that wasnt the case. I think half were wanting the NK to end this, whilst half wanted the politics to end it. It wasnt a situation I think that would see a lot of people happy.
Limitations of tv ,budget, means its easier to write and put into words, than to actually display on tv in a limited time.
I would have written Euron, and Dorne completely differently. Dorne for example, and the sandsnakes imo just went against everything Oberyn stood for. 'we dont kill children in Dorne' but thats what his widow goes and does. The prince and his security were total jobbers too. Could and should have been better.
However I like to look at what theyve given and rate it based on that rather than rate on what I think should have happened. I remember somebody saying that the hound vs mountain would be pure fan service, but they threw in hints it would lead to this.
She had no reason to take revenge on the West. Nor revenge on everybody. Where the feck has this reasoning been brought up? In what way has the West wronged her to the point of her deciding to burn everyone. It makes no sense.
Cersei and Euron are the prime reasons her friends died. Euron was with his fleet, fleet burnt, objective complete. Cersei would be at the Red Keep, City had surrendered, burn the Keep and kill Cersei, objective complete. They are the people that she wanted revenge on, little Sarah Jane of Flea Bottom had no reason to be burned. Nor Dave the fisherman, nor Steve the Ratcatcher.
I enjoyed it. Thought they got the pacing spot on for once. I didn't feel like I wanted them to get on with it before the battle started.
It's pretty much gone how I expected though. I knew Dany would start being like her father but I guess I didn't expect her to literally fly around destroying the whole city and burning children alive.
One thing I didn't like was Jaime's arc basically being completely pointless. All that and he runs back to Cersei? I wasn't sure about Cersei being killed by the crypt collapsing either but then I thought that's more book-like than anything. The TV show has become which main character will kill the other main character. Before it was Ilyn Payne killing Ned, a random Frey killing Cat and Rob, a boar killing Robert Baratheon, etc...
It's pretty much gone how I expected though. I knew Dany would start being like her father but I guess I didn't expect her to literally fly around destroying the whole city and burning children alive.
Jon is going to have to kill Dany. That much is obvious.
One thing I didn't like was Jaime's arc basically being completely pointless. All that and he runs back to Cersei? I wasn't sure about Cersei being killed by the crypt collapsing either but then I thought that's more book-like than anything. The TV show has become which main character will kill the other main character. Before it was Ilyn Payne killing Ned, a random Frey killing Cat and Rob, a boar killing Robert Baratheon, etc...
I wonder how much of his grandads genes Jon have and will he go mad too? I guess we'll never find out..
Not the best start of Dannys rule if she'll ever rule at all, depending on the last episode.
Not the best start of Dannys rule if she'll ever rule at all, depending on the last episode.
I'm just saying it makes sense, why leave Ceresi and attack civillians first? Do you think the end of Ceresi was good killed by rocks? Do you think Arya surviving in a space where everyone around her is killed made sense? I don't care what the end as long as the events make sense like the whole series did, the show that gave us Ned Starks death and the red wedding in a very sensible twist can't take such leaps suddenly, it's just bad writing imo.
No, shes much worse than her father. She killed an entire cities population who had just surrendered. The Mad King wanted to blow the city up to attempt to destroy an invading army along with a last ditch attempt to save his crown. It was extremely desperate and yes a bit nuts, but slightly understandable. What Daenerys did was unthinkable.
She's gone mad. You can't expect her actions to still be in line with her character up to now. If it was then she wouldn't be mad, she be making her usual somewhat justifable decisions.
She demolished a heavily fortified King's Landing with the Iron Fleet, the Golden Company and the Lannister army protecting it and did it with ease. No other force can stand up to her. There are no ballistae and no Night King javelins to take out Drogon.
I don't think there's a battle. I think Jon somehow gets close to her and kills her, he refuses to rule and Sansa takes his place as ruler of the Westeros with Winterfell as the new capital since King's Landing is rubble.
We weren't shown she had gone mad until she made the decision to burn everyone. She was in mourning and deeply upset. But mad? Don't think that came across until she opened fire after the bells rang.
Agreed. No way the final episode is another battle, Daenerys wins hands down unless Drogon decides to not fight. We've seen a glimpse before that Drogon has affection for Jon (allowed Jon to pet him). I think the only way the show ends is Daenerys being assassinated. Everything points to Arya doing it which probably makes me think it'll end up being Tyrion. Jaime the Kingslayer, Tyrion the Queenslayer.
Genuinely reckon they'll remake this show or the last few seasons in a decade or so, as they've pretty much butchered the plotlines IMO.
There is though a Bran, that has the ability to warg into other creatures.
that episode was like the machine gun car cheat on age of empires.
They won't. Thats just wishful thinking. Enjoy the ride. Might be making you a bit queasy near the end but it's almost over.
Why would anyone feel sorry for the people of King's Landing?
Is it fair to say Dany has murdered 100,000 times as many people as all the shows villains combined? I'd love to get a kill count video, like the who scored most goals at what age charts you see. Poor NK would barely make the list.
Varys said we already know where Jon's coin has fallen. I think the fact he hasn't been raised a Targ and doesn't see himself as special will prevent him from madness at least the power hungry type.
Tbh, I don't think Dany is the mad queen, more the self entitled queen who throws bigger and bigger tantrums when stuff doesn't go her way.
I really really hope they do once george releases the last 2 books in the next 5 years hopefully and this time just stay true to the books.
Maybe do it as movies like Harry Potter?
Crazy woman know what she did. They ll be talking about her for ages. Those that are alive to tell it that is.
My problem with Jon is that there's too much of Nedd Stark in him.
Movies or whatever - for me it needs to be done, as they've pretty much shat on the show from the greatest of heights.
I was watching season 4 the other day and when you look at the IMDB ratings, it's like 9.7 nearly every episode and it was genuinely some of the best TV I have ever seen.
Compare that to the shite which is being served now... this latest episode I mean seriously ... none of the character arcs seemed to conclude in a satisfying way (Dany going bad was only thing which made sense but do you need an entire episode dedicated to her setting things on fire again and again - we get the message - she’s turned heel) it all seemed clumsily put together and nothing made sense in relation to the foreshadowing which had taken place throughout their journeys.
Arya killing no one on her list and riding a horse. Feck off.
I've been thinking about this all night and half the day and I think
she's going to try to burn Jon, but he'll be fireproof. Her attempted execution will prove he's Aegon T and she'll have cost herself the crown.
Yet we had Varys in this very episode outright say that while he was sure Jon wasn't the mad side of the Targ coin, Dany might be (something that they've spent seasons raising a possibility already). We then immediately afterwards saw her increasing paranoia and willingness to kill civillians. They set it up, then she finally transgressed as the bells rang. I don't see why they would have to set it up more beforehand by showing her wandering around talking to plants or whatever.
At some point she had to snap and take the step into doing something unjustifiably batshit. The dramatic thing was to have her take that step and break in that moment rather than have her break beforehand and just wander in to battle with us knowing she had already definitively crossed into madness.
Between repeatedly stating that she had a 50% chance of going mad, killing her children, killing her closest friends, showing her advisors turning against her, showing her paranoia, have her repeatedly threaten to burn civillians alive and have her actually brutally murder multiple enemies up to now, I think they did enough to flag in advance what was always going to be a final leap into the unacceptable.
Part of the show naturally had to be straining against that though because the whole twist is that she's someone whose side we're generally on. To make it super smooth they would have to make her definitively a bad guy first, which would ruin the twist of our "hero" going bad because we'd already be against her.
She had no reason to take revenge on the West. Nor revenge on everybody. Where the feck has this reasoning been brought up? In what way has the West wronged her to the point of her deciding to burn everyone. It makes no sense.
Cersei and Euron are the prime reasons her friends died. Euron was with his fleet, fleet burnt, objective complete. Cersei would be at the Red Keep, City had surrendered, burn the Keep and kill Cersei, objective complete. They are the people that she wanted revenge on, little Sarah Jane of Flea Bottom had no reason to be burned. Nor Dave the fisherman, nor Steve the Ratcatcher.
Of course she has no reason to do so. Just like she had no reason to walk into a fire with three dragon eggs. Shes nuts and she probably thinks, its the only way to go.
She told Jon she has no love only fear. Then followed it with 'all right then, let it be fear'. She had chosen then, she was going to rule by fear. And not by just killing a tyrant but by taking lives. That was her justification, which clearly nobody will follow cos its mad.
Remaking seasons is a ridiculous notion. I'd hate to see that happen.
A popular theory but he isn't fireproof. He burnt his hand in season 1.
A prequel series would be good. Seeing Rhaegar and Robert and the battle of the trident. Or even a show set years after the events that happen in GOT. Where people like Jon, Lyanna the giantslayer, Dany, etc.. are spoken about in mythical status.
They can't be all evil and mad.
So... Why are they still showing the ice that has crept towards Winterfell through the wall.. Just because it's winter? Wouldn't be surprised if even Dany s pyrotechnics yesterday will take a back seat to a major twist. Heck.. She may even live if they really wanted to throw us off.
I'd argue it was Tyrion: 'If you're looking for justice, you've come to the wrong place.'
(He was foreshadowing fans expecting justice to characters' story arcs)