Two dragons & Jorah too. Plus she can't trust her closest advisors. Alone and paranoid.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Two dragons & Jorah too. Plus she can't trust her closest advisors. Alone and paranoid.
Guess we can forget about this now as well.
How was that a bad thing? He was an utter cnut who wanted to either feck her or sell her for his own gain.
The only dodgy thing she's done that I can remember was nailing up the masters on the crosses. Everything else she's done has been fair game imo.
I think he did it to distance himself from Cersei thinking Brienne would be enough, given he also had a genuine affection for her but the sudden realization she's gonna die along and carrying his baby made him. I don't think they murdered her his arc it was just badly written and rushed.
There are still so many plot points to wrap up:
- what happened to oberyns girlfriend in the dungeons
- is yara a lesbian or bisexual
- who is the new septa at winterhell
- is dario going to ever get a haircut
- is robyn arryn still training to become a warrior
Has Dany taken anything without fire? She got the dothraki through fire. She got the unsullied by pretending to hand over the dragon, then fire destroyed the masters. She got her dragons back at end of s2 through fire (taking out the house of undying).
Shes been kept sane by Selmy, Jorah , Missandei and later by Tyrion and Varys. Shes lost all and Missandei saying 'dracarys' coupled with Varys actively plotting against her is a good reason to use the fire. And Unsullied follow her (Greyworm waited until Dany roasted everybody before attacking an unarmed soldier which lead to everything)
Shes been kept sane by Selmy, Jorah , Missandei and later by Tyrion and Varys. Shes lost all and Missandei saying 'dracarys' coupled with Varys actively plotting against her is a good reason to use the fire. And Unsullied follow her (Greyworm waited until Dany roasted everybody before attacking an unarmed soldier which lead to everything)
And who were Varys letters sent to. They need to show that journey too.
Shes been talking about burning kings landing for years now only to be talked out of it by her advisors. Except now she executed varys, jorah, missandei and barry are dead, and she threatened tyrion with death. So she has always had the urge to conquer with fire and now shes got no one holding her back.
we definitely need more time with sam and gilly. maybe a shot of them sleeping and a baby's cry rings out and they both look at each other and say "whose turn is it to feed lil john this time"
I think its a combination of the little things with Dani but it feels super rushed going from entitled bitch to lets murder everyone Drogon this season. The signs were always there. As a Queen she would be Stannis like even without the inherited craziness imho. She's had very little remorse in killing anyone since her first appearance (not the only monarch with that problem but..) I honestly did see her being any better than Joffrey.
I do think the show handled her transition quite badly.
I've no interest in any of those and wouldn't expect them to waste any time next week on stuff like that
The way to look at it is to imagine Jon (the morally "right" character) and ask whether he would have done the things Dany did if he was in the same situation. The sheer number of people and cities she's burned alive (or indeed crucified) would horrify him. Which indeed is why the likes of Sam, Tyrion and Varys all doubted her character prior to this.
Of course she was one of our heroes and we saw her reasons for doing those terrible things, so we bought in to each act along the way as somehow justifiable until it wasn't any more. That's the whole point of the "protagonist we've identified with for years ultimately becomes the villain" twist. If you didn't think the stuff she was doing earlier was at least somewhat fair game then it doesn't work.
What I do know is if Emilia had no clue how this was gonna play out till she got the script she must have been furious after reading it.
Not strictly true. I think she only talks about attacking Kings Landing when she first arrives at Dragonstone. Again, we have never, never seen her kill innocent civilians in the show. Attacking military targets or leaders yes, attacking children and women no.
Burning the entire city to the ground is a step too far for her character. Burning and destroying the Red Keep after the bells were sounded would fit her character profile. The Mad King for example only ordered to kill everyone after being put in Cerseis position of not having any option remaining. Daenerys had plenty of options, yet she decided to destroy the entire city killing hundreds of thousands of people in the process...???
I could perhaps understand her snapping like that if she had attacked straight away after last episode. But having lots of time to sit and ponder on the situation, I can't see how she's made that leap from "I want revenge, im going to kill Cersei" to "I want revenge, kill the entire city". I just dont think that level of destruction fits her character. Shes always cared about the normal person, thats always been her 2nd focus behind the Iron Throne.
The world doesnt revolve around what you are interested in. Fact is, those are the most important parts left in the series and if you dont want to watch, feel free to read a book nerd
Obviously she had good reasons to hate him, so her pleasure at his death was somewhat understandable in that context. But keeping that context in mind, it’s pretty clear that having an older brother who is your only father-figure but who also wants to feck you and is regularly violent towards you might be the type of childhood that leaves someone vulnerable to madness later in life. And seeing that brother have a pot of melted gold poured over his head by the husband he sold you to might bring out some of those tendencies.
She was a victim of abuse from a young age and has witnessed some seriously disturbing shit throughout her life, of course she’s likely to be quite fecked up.
I think she always wanted revenge but she didnt think Cersei would actually surrender because only Tyrion is that dumb. And when the bells rang she decided she was going to get her revenge anyway.
Her brother told her he'd let khal drogo and all his horses feck her to get a crown though.
If she was it didn't come across on screen. Her portrayal of broken and paranoid Dany is her best work on the show, in my opinion. I actually can't wait to see what her final state next week.
Yeah it's really important we find out if a minor character is bisexual .
I feel sorry for you. It must be tough being so small minded and selfish
Yes, that’s exactly the kind of thing that is gonna leave somebody a bit fecked up mentally.
Yup I've called her one of the worst actors on the show for awhile but she's was really good last night. I thought it was a good episode in general despite the usual writing issues. I was more surprised by Grey Worms change of character than Dany's to be honest. Seems very unlike him to stab a guy in the back when he's surrendered, angry or not. Think Jon is gonna kill him next week.
Revenge on thousands of people who weren't involved in anything? As I say, there's a huge difference between wanting to kill Cersei and thereby destroying the Red Keep (thats within her character, killing leaders by any means, see her burning the Dothraki tent up to get the Dothraki horde). But she's never decided to kill an entire cities population out of revenge, we've never seen her kill a civilian before. This is why her decision to continue burning the streets doesn't fit with me. It's a huge leap for her character arc.
We already know the population size of Kings Landing was a million and that was before the Golden Company and all the immigrants arrived in the city. But she burns them all anyway? She must have completely snapped mentally and if that was the case it didn't come across well. To me, she looked like someone wanting to butcher Cersei, not someone who hated the entire population of Kings Landing.
I en
I enjoyed it.I liked it. Plot holes and all.
I feel blessed that I am seemingly able to enjoy a lot of stuff that others seem to get all upset about (films, TV, Music, video games) and sorry for people who just can't enjoy anything because it isn't exactly how they picture it in their head, or isn't plotted how they think it should be.
I'm not saying you are wrong to hate anything, and I respect your right to have your opinions; I'm just saying I'm glad I don't share your views and am able to get genuine enjoyment from things which apparently make the rest of you miserable
That is all.
Greyworm has snapped / changed. Hes the only unsullied weve really spent time with. But he lost missandei. And tbh, hes just followed his queens actions. He stood back and did nothing until he saw Dany do what she did (which was burn everything).
This is mostly the problem, everything is rushed and abrupt, it doesn't happen organically enough.
I think she made the decision before and didnt snap at the moment. She was intending to do this it seemed, but Tyrion tried to talk her out once the bells rung. Her nod to Greyworm looked like it meant she agreed with Tyrion, but it probably meant, just do what we intended (revenge).
She freed slaves, she was great for the dothrakis stopped them from raping women ie, she locked up her dragons as to not hurt anyone, she didn't want to reopen the fighting pits to not get people killed, yes she did burn sams dad and brother but its freaking war, lines get crossed at wars.
Really find it hard that with all the good things she did that she is suddenly crazy and want to burn civillians and children, had she burnt Ceresi that would've been believeable and enjoyable, the writers trying to get sympathy for Ceresi though was fecking dumb.
That's not how she saw it. We even had multiple scenes of her explaining it and justifying it by invoking the greater good. If she had gradually gotten to this point and it was all completely predictable and logical she wouldn't have any followers and she wouldn't be mad. She had reasons but it took traumatic events to make her snap, that's what makes her mad and what makes her a targaryen.
She didn't even attack Ceresi, should've been the first thing she does after destroying the scorpions, but hey plot armour lets wait for Jaime and Ceresi to meet up, you know the guy who was evil then became good then evil again.
They never paid off the Danny-Yara romance arc either.
I largely agree.
I liked it. I think her killing the thousands of innocent is aligned with her saying she needs to rule with fear. She knows westeros would flock Jon once they knew the truth so they're of no use alive. Plus she's mad for the throne and doesn't care about the cost anymore. What started as a humble approach got more and more poisonous as the throne became within grasp over time.
That's the way I interpreted it anyway.
What I didn't enjoy was Cersei going in such an anticlimax.
That's the way I interpreted it anyway.
What I didn't enjoy was Cersei going in such an anticlimax.
Didnt Olenna tell Dany to rule with fear rather than love. I agree, she basically knew the secret about Jon was out and would spread. She knows theres only one way to rule, and its to be part of the wheel.
varys was too much of a Mary Sue so I'm glad hes dead
It's indefensible and doesn't work in my opinion. What she did was significantly worse than what the Mad King wanted to do for fecks sake.
But revenge on who? The children didn't fire kill anyone, it was Cersei. Just burn the Red Keep, that's a strong message and you get to kill Cersei. Job done. I don't think Daenerys was able to survey all of the civilians on whether they were happy under Cerseis rule. For her to go out and slaughter everyone after the city fecking surrendered is ridiculous. Just doesnt sit right with me. I'm sure it'll be waved away as her 'going mad'. Which is an acceptable reason if shown properly on screen, imo it wasn't. Wanting a shag and looking weapy isn't signs of her going mad.
I'm pretty sure watching her burn their Iron Fleet, destroy the castle walls, kill 40,000 troops and then burning down the entire Red Keep while her huge Dragon survives would be enough to allow her to rule by fear.
Agree 100%. If she goes straight to red keep to attack Cersie after surrender I would have no complaints. Trying to burn every inch of the city made no sense for her character.