Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

OK so here's my theory -
Dany wins the war against Cersei (who is murdered by Jamie or by Euron most probably the latter as she's bearing Jamie's child and Euron probably gets information about Cersei's plan to betray him), takes the iron throne but after killing thousands by setting them on fire and then goes absolute bonkers when everyone wants Jon Snow to be the king or is mad at Jon for telling everyone the secret. Jamie kills Dany by stabbing her in the back and then probably kills himself as he has nothing to live for (Oh wait, Brienne) . Gendry Baratheon becomes the new King as Jon Snow refuses the crown, Tyrion as the king's hand, Jon rides North to stay in the North or to go North of the wall to join Tormund with the show ending with Tormund Ghost (and Jon) encountering a few WWs north of the wall. The Dragon is probably killed during the battle to take Kings Landing

Thus the show ends where it began - Mad queen Targeriyan killed, Jamie the kingslayer, a Baratheon as the king of the seven kingdoms, Starks ruling the North and Wildlings spotting WWs
 
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FlawlessThaw said:
Assuming that’s what he is doing. Could go either way.
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In the inside the episode video they make it sound that way (Jaime being 'addicted' to Cersei).
Oh yeah, they also say Daenerys had 'kind of forgotten' about the iron fleet. Actual quote. :lol:
 
That was a poor episode imo.

Some of the conflicts seem overly manufactured, the dragons seem incredibly vulnerable now and Jaime's decision just seems strange, unless he has a last minute change of heart again when he's in KL.

Just...a bit strange.
 
I just don't get the show anymore.

Everything just feels so forced and disconnected.
Brienne and Jaime had to feck, because they needed someone to see him off when he went back to Cersei (for whatever reason). Even the way they set it up. Tyrion asking Brienne a pretty cruel question in the middle of an innocent drinking game?
Dragons had to be worthless, Euron overpowered for a moment, because they wanted the episode to end with momentum on Cersei's side?
Bron just magically appears with his crossbow, to just leave again with the most ridiculous of promises, because they had to check him off their list?

Arya's character personifies this the most. When needed she's the most powerful, almost godlike, being in the whole of Westeros, wiping out an entire house, killing King's guard, sneaking past thousands of undead soldiers and WWs to finish the NK single handedly. Yet the next day, when they strategize their attack on KL, no one cares about the most deadly person in Westeros?

Everything just flip flops from one extreme to the other.
 
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Sanche7 said:
OK so here's my theory -
Dany wins the war against Cersei (who is murdered by Jamie or by Euron most probably the latter as she's bearing Jamie's child and Euron probably gets information about Cersei's plan to betray him), takes the iron throne but goes absolute bonkers when everyone wants Jon Snow to be the king or is mad at Jon for telling everyone the secret. Jamie kills Dany by stabbing her in the back and then probably kills himself as he has nothing to live for (Oh wait, Brienne) . Gendry Baratheon becomes the new King as Job Snow refuses the crown. Jon rides North to stay in the North or to go North of the wall to join Tormund with the show ending with Tormund Ghost (and Jon) encountering a few WWs north of the wall

Thus the show ends where it began - Mad queen Targeriyan killed, Jamie the kingslayer, a Baratheon as the king of the seven kingdoms, Starks ruling the North and Wildlings spotting WWs
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Yeah I'm thinking similar
It's very much like an ending of a different show
wire
Wheel doesn't break
Just goes in a loop
Maybe bran is involved in the ww return
 
GhastlyHun said:
Jaime going back to Cersei is one of the weirdest decisions. All of his redemption story thrown out of the window.
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Nah it depends- if it is written in a way where he wants to go back to Cersei to be with her rather than as a way to sort out what is unfinished business. His story was always destined to end in KL one way or another.

The way they handled it was badly contrived though - he should have just gone with Brienne with the men marching south and felt conflicted along the way - being cold and distant with Brienne. Due to cutting it short to 6 episodes they’re having to butcher every single storyline.
 
Sylar said:
Yeah I'm thinking similar
It's very much like an ending of a different show
wire
Wheel doesn't break
Just goes in a loop
Maybe bran is involved in the ww return
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I expect Bran and the Lord of the light to get a mini series or something. I mean they would want to cash in on this GOT hype as much as they can

HBO's apparently working on three 'Game of Thrones' spinoffs, says George R. R. Martin

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...-thrones-spinoff-shows-martin-trnd/index.html
 
I liked it for the most part.

Brienne finally got some dick
The further adventures of arya and the hound confirmed
Gendry getting his swag on

Only bit I didn't like was the very end, for all the talk of ruthless cersei she could have massacred that little gang at the end. Dany, Tyrion, greyworm and varys all dead before dinner. Was a no brainer but obviously not great for the story I suppose
 
Sanche7 said:
OK so here's my theory -
Dany wins the war against Cersei (who is murdered by Jamie or by Euron most probably the latter as she's bearing Jamie's child and Euron probably gets information about Cersei's plan to betray him), takes the iron throne but after killing thousands by setting them on fire and then goes absolute bonkers when everyone wants Jon Snow to be the king or is mad at Jon for telling everyone the secret. Jamie kills Dany by stabbing her in the back and then probably kills himself as he has nothing to live for (Oh wait, Brienne) . Gendry Baratheon becomes the new King as Jon Snow refuses the crown, Tyrion as the king's hand, Jon rides North to stay in the North or to go North of the wall to join Tormund with the show ending with Tormund Ghost (and Jon) encountering a few WWs north of the wall. The Dragon is probably killed during the battle to take Kings Landing

Thus the show ends where it began - Mad queen Targeriyan killed, Jamie the kingslayer, a Baratheon as the king of the seven kingdoms, Starks ruling the North and Wildlings spotting WWs
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Sounds plausible
 
Red_Aaron said:
I liked it for the most part.

Brienne finally got some dick
The further adventures of arya and the hound confirmed
Gendry getting his swag on

Only bit I didn't like was the very end, for all the talk of ruthless cersei she could have massacred that little gang at the end. Dany, Tyrion, greyworm and varys all dead before dinner. Was a no brainer but obviously not great for the story I suppose
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Never ever in the history of Cinema or TV will such a scene occur. You build up to a finale over a period of 8 years with Dany going through hell and worse to reach KL just to be ambushed and killed in 10 mins by some long range projectile weapon? Yeah it would be logical alright but that would be the lamest ending possible. There would be zero payoff for the fans who have followed her journey for all these years. This thing is made for entertainment not for logic. If people want logic, they should probably watch Discovery or Nat Geo. I'm not saying anything goes but expecting everything to be completely logical is bonkers
 
Chairman Steve said:
I’ve accepted that they won’t reach the levels of dialogue they had when the show was still within GRRMs books. Season 5 is pretty much the start of it so it’s more interesting to see how the story set pieces play out from what is essentially GRRMs winds and dream books in bullet point form and seeing how they fill the story in from there.

Time will tell whether D&D have fanficced the last few seasons of GOT. It does seem ludicrous how many deus ex machina moments and super plot armour moments have happened since Season 6 or so though. Possible even too many early season callback moments too.

This episode was decent for me. It had the political intrigue that I like and watch GoT for. I’m confused when people say they watch GoT for the action and battle scenes and ending GoT with some grand good vs evil battle would be the worst thing the show could possibly do.
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An issue for people watching (and thus directors) is that half wanted battle Vs night king to end it
Whilst half wanted the politics and claim for the throne to end it

So already half were gonna be annoyed or disappointed before the season began

Whilst I do think some aspects could have been done better the problem was always time and budget. The directors went for more spectacle than writing. Some aspects of internal logic were sacrificed.
Given how long it's taken the author to come up with something that to make sense you can see there were always gonna be issues

Some have given their own ways they would improve it but then you have others on here pointing to faults within that and so on

I tend to go with what we've been provided rather than what could have been provided
From what we've been provided I've for the most enjoyed this season and been thrilled

I don't mind the nk was defeated in one night in the fashion he was. I'm sure if it was in a book it could have been done with more details
Likewise I don't mind the dragon falling cos it makes the last battle a bit more even whilst obviously putting less strain on budget
Much like ghost going north as it makes sense for the logic they used (but still annoyed they didn't show Jon snow saying goodbye for now or something )
 
.
John to take the black and go back to rebuild the wall with bran and the dragon

Danny to bugger off back east with Sam to cure stone people and be back where people luv her

Tryion and Bron to turn highgarden into the best brothel in the 7 kingdoms

Arya to become the ultimate debt collector for the iron bank

Sansa to marry Robyn and rule the north / vale... Brienne as her queen's guard and pod kept as their sex slave

Captain Jack to set sail for far away lands on some god awful rum filled sequal

Cersi and Jamie to feck each other to death

The mountain and the hound to feck each other to death

Through lack of other viable options gendery to be king with onion bloke and the spider as his advisers

The others to die
Kinda hope not but loosing faith in anythibg other than a rushed and unrewarding ending... Still have some hope though
 
sun_tzu said:
.
John to take the black and go back to rebuild the wall with bran and the dragon

Danny to bugger off back east with Sam to cure stone people and be back where people luv her

Tryion and Bron to turn highgarden into the best brothel in the 7 kingdoms

Arya to become the ultimate debt collector for the iron bank

Sansa to marry Robyn and rule the north / vale... Brienne as her queen's guard and pod kept as their sex slave

Captain Jack to set sail for far away lands on some god awful rum filled sequal

Cersi and Jamie to feck each other to death

The mountain and the hound to feck each other to death

Through lack of other viable options gendery to be king with onion bloke and the spider as his advisers

The others to die
Kinda hope not but loosing faith in anythibg other than a rushed and unrewarding ending... Still have some hope though
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I'm sure that sounded funnier in your head.
 
Red_Aaron said:
I liked it for the most part.

Brienne finally got some dick
The further adventures of arya and the hound confirmed
Gendry getting his swag on

Only bit I didn't like was the very end, for all the talk of ruthless cersei she could have massacred that little gang at the end. Dany, Tyrion, greyworm and varys all dead before dinner. Was a no brainer but obviously not great for the story I suppose
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I look at it as cersei valuing qyburn a lot. I would have changed it by having three from each side going (varys, tyrion and greyworm Vs qyburn, Euron and a golden company guy)
That reduces chances of each side attacking yea? Or maybe not haha
But it's important figures from both sides neither wants to lose

Hammerfell said:
I'm sure that sounded funnier in your head.
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:lol:
 
:lol::lol: It's more of a comedy now.
Sansa was sworn to secrecy and she goes and tells Tyrion on the same day. That made really made me laugh.
 
‘The Dragon was killed too easily by those scorpion/giant crossbows’

There was a whole bunch of scenes last season with them manufacturing these weapons to take down dragons. What, were they supposed to not work?

Regarding dany not then going on to flank the ships, she just saw one of her dragons die, goes to attack, realises it’s too dangerous and then abandons her army. Shows yet another flaw in her as a ruler/leader. She did the same thing to Jon in the last episode only to return when the Night King was no longer a threat to her ‘child’. She, like Cersei, has a vengeful attitude to those that kill her ‘children’
 
Jaime obviously isn't going back to Cersei, he's gonna kill her.
 
Jagga7 said:
:lol::lol: It's more of a comedy now.
Sansa was sworn to secrecy and she goes and tells Tyrion on the same day. That made really made me laugh.
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I mean it's plotting 101, which is what the show was built on. Found that quite realistic.
 
Jagga7 said:
:lol::lol: It's more of a comedy now.
Sansa was sworn to secrecy and she goes and tells Tyrion on the same day. That made really made me laugh.
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Oh shhhhhh! Stop picking on the show! You have to turn your brain off and just like shiney stuff, then you are good to go!


Cheesy said:
Jaime obviously isn't going back to Cersei, he's gonna kill her.
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Yep. Whether that's the intention or not, he surely has to.
 
Cheesy said:
I mean it's plotting 101, which is what the show was built on. Found that quite realistic.
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Yep, they made it very clear Sansa was plotting all episode. The hiring of the prostitutes after clocking Dany's game playing with Gendry was the most obvious sign.

For all the joking, her telling Tyrion to sow discontent makes sense. Of course she's now broken her word and it could lead to Jon's death (although it obviously won't), but we'll ignore that.
 
Another hilarious moment, was when Jon didn't even pet or say goodbye to Ghost. Hahaha, he's got a Dragon now so Ghost can feck off.
 
Don't get the hate for this episode. Lot of complaints being branded about now were already evident in last season if not in one before. At this stage you are either in for the complete ride or just hate watching. I agree that the show jumped the shark last season and now it is simply one where you turn off your brain and enjoy the spectacle with the twists and turns. Basically a tv show version of superhero movies. My biggest complaint from this episode was perhaps the way the dragon got killed, definitely weak. They could have at least tempered that by showing his injuries from previous war and emphasising that he was unable to fly well and dodge arrows like the Dracarys.

Some of the character arc turns in this episode were good IMO. Jamie turning back to Cersie is appropriate for his character despite his redemption journey. Even if he does not love her now as before, he is too attached to let her die without trying to save her one last time. Dany turning power crazy would have been a great season long arc but alas it has to be rushed now. Jon being as naive as Ned Stark is also a great nod to him being his son in every way other than literal one.
 
Redlambs said:
Yep, they made it very clear Sansa was plotting all episode. The hiring of the prostitutes after clocking Dany's game playing with Gendry was the most obvious sign.

For all the joking, her telling Tyrion to sow discontent makes sense. Of course she's now broken her word and it could lead to Jon's death (although it obviously won't), but we'll ignore that.
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She's also someone who has spent her whole adult life warring against/being betrayed by people who aren't her family. She's naturally wary of Daenerys and is trying to win Tyrion over. Sensible direction for her character to go in.
 
Jon Snow is a proper sad sack isn't he. I mean he was depressed in Season One and things haven't exactly gone smoothly for him since then. Hopefully he'll get counselling after all this.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Its interesting how they’ve lined this all up, I think it’s fair to say that either Daenerys or Jon will die.
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My theory
I think in her hot headed nature Dani is going to attack before she is ready and lose and either be killed or captured forcing Jon to lead an army either to save her or revenge her but doing so in the process he’ll have to tell the kingdom who he is.

Adam-Utd said:
I think Daenerys will go fully mental in pursuit of revenge and they’ll realise she’s everything they’ve come to hate - they’ll get rid.

Jon will go north and leave Sansa in charge.
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I did quite like the way they showed her so alone now, she doesn’t quite trust Tyrian and certainly isn’t sure on Varyis and now Mesandi has been taken from her she really has no one to turn to now that Jorah is gone. This is the most isolated she has ever really been and the people that kept her in check have gone.

Sansa also now kind of an interesting character, I want to know where this animosity between her and Dani is leading or will that be it over and done with.
Seems weird to me that you would think with her being left in winterfell that is her arc over but I think she will have a big part to play in how this all plays out in the end.
 
Is there any logical reason why Cersei's character wouldn't :-

1. Immediately slay her greatest threat to the throne, who happens to be but 100m away and supported by only a handful of unsullied.
2. Utilise the many Scorpions to kill Drogon, who sits idly at a much shorter distance than when Euron killed the other one?

Good writing is the consistency of a character being true to who they are at all times and occasions. In any other circumstance such as this, with such an overwhelming advantage over the enemy, Cersei wouldn't think twice, but due to the incredibly poor pacing of this season, she must act uncharacteristically so that two more episodes must elapse before resolution.
 
I don't understand how Tyrion and Varys can be convinced that Jon would make such a great ruler of westeros. He has a good heart, but is dumb as feck. Dany was absolutely right, when she wanted Jon to keep his heritage a secret and not tell Sansa and Arya. He should absolutely logically be able to see, that it's the best course of action so far so why is he dying to tell his family. He's been a bastard all his life, then king in the north and later warden of the north if Dany wins. Or they could do the completely logical thing and just marry. I don't see why he is so desperate to tell anyone that he is targ.

I find Varys plotting against Dany a bit weak. He gave Dany his word that he would serve her after supported Robert in trying to assainate her, and now yet again he's plotting against someone he's sworn to serve.

Dany at this point deserves the loyalty of the North. Without her army and intervention the whole world would have been destroyed and she did so at a great cost of losing a dragon and having her army decimated. As such they owe her the favour of Loyalty.

Sansa as this great plotter and schemer just comes of silly. She's a bitch and the actress makes her sound so dull even though she's supposed to be cunning.

Tyrion is again a complete idiot and terrible hand. Their fleet is decimated by his plan and another dragon lost. When he tries to appeal to Cersei in the most cringey manner what does he expect. She more or less has the upper hand in terms of military might and has no reason to ahead with an unconditional surrender just like she had no good reason to agree a truce.

Bronn's scene was just comical. He's an enemy knight and he just walzes into the enemy army and threatens to take out 2 Lannisters unless they agree to give him a completely unrealistic fortress and lands.

I don't see either why Dany wants to move on Kings Landing immediately. She could spend time replenishing her forces and try to get the rest of the big houses in westeros to join her claim since Cersei massacred her own allies. The lords connected with the baratheons should want to join her, as well as the minor houses connected with Highgarden and the Dornish as well.

I don't get why Arya just does not use her skills and magic to infiltrate Kings Landing and kill Cersei. It should be the easiest things in the world at this point and would spare thousands of soldiers and innocents from being killed.

Not sure what Jaime is up to. Considering he's just been told by Bronn that Cersei want's him assasinated I would find it difficult to believe he's going back to fight for her. Maybe maggie's prophecy comes true and he kills her. Don't know at this point. Don't how I feel about Brienne and Jaime screwing. I know they have a bond and a history, but Jaime is one of the most handsome men in westeros and the most sought after. Not really sure he'd ever go along with it in the end.

Euron kind of pisses me off. Like Ramsay etc he's overpowered and his character is over played.

Dragons suddenly killed easily. Don't really see what threat Drogon possess now.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Is there any logical reason why Cersei's character wouldn't :-

1. Immediately slay her greatest threat to the throne, who happens to be but 100m away and supported by only a handful of unsullied.
2. Utilise the many Scorpions to kill Drogon, who sits idly at a much shorter distance than when Euron killed the other one?

Good writing is the consistency of a character being true to who they are at all times and occasions. In any other circumstance such as this, with such an overwhelming advantage over the enemy, Cersei wouldn't think twice, but due to the incredibly poor pacing of this season, she must act uncharacteristically so that two more episodes must elapse before resolution.
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This is why we have to accept it's a brain dead tv show.

That being said, it's a bit bizarre people moaning at the moaning, as it's fair for people to have opinions and even laugh at some of the more stupid moments at least. Like that scene, it did look good and set Dany's heel turn up nicely, but it was still incredibly stupid.
 
Shamana said:
I find Varys plotting against Dany a bit weak. He gave Dany his word that he would serve her after supported Robert in trying to assainate her, and now yet again he's plotting against someone he's sworn to serve.
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He gave his word to many people. His only loyalty is to the realm, as he said.

Shamana said:
I don't understand how Tyrion and Varys can be convinced that Jon would make such a great ruler of westeros. He has a good heart, but is dumb as feck. Dany was absolutely right, when she wanted Jon to keep his heritage a secret and not tell Sansa and Arya. He should absolutely logically be able to see, that it's the best course of action so far so why is he dying to tell his family. He's been a bastard all his life, then king in the north and later warden of the north if Dany wins. Or they could do the completely logical thing and just marry. I don't see why he is so desperate to tell anyone that he is targ.
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Obviously he is desperate to say it — being King of the North doesn't make him a Stark, this does, and it's something that he had been craving for all his life. But I agree with your first point. The whole plot of Dany's first 5 seasons or so was about her becoming a queen instead of a good-hearted girl, making hard decisions etc. Jon hardly ever ruled, his whole "rule" was dedicated to one project — introducing wildlings to the world. He'd be more ruthless (and... bad in their eyes) if he had faced the same obstacles.
 
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