Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Redlambs said:
I'm not being disingenuous at all, in fact the opposite and that's a daft thing to accuse me of.

I'm merely stating that the idiots who use it to have a go at a strong female lead are wrong, and in fact they most likely don't even understand what it means. But I will say just because people want to google the term and use it in the modern meaning, it doesn't mean we should strictly apply it to that meaning. For example, I don't personally think you can rightly call Rey a Mary Sue but justify calling Arya one just because you've taken to assume it means power in a short time so one is better than the other. And even so, Rey had some training and how much is enough? At least be consistent.

If I'm wrong to suggest that, then I apologise and won't talk about it again.





I had to google what that means. Ironic, and stupid :lol:
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But that's how it's always applied. When they're calling Arya a Mary Sue, you know what they mean. You seem to have a problem with how the term has been bastardised from its origin, and that's fine, but it's almost irrelevant to this discussion. That's all i'm saying. So when i (and others) say she isn't a Mary Sue, she isn't. Because i'm going by how it's used in the modern sense. The origin of it is almost irrelevant because that's not how it's applied.

You're having a different discussion really.
 
GhastlyHun said:
She learned neither invisibility nor flight. And they simply ignore how she got to the right place at the right time with the place crawling with Walkers and Zombies. That is a deus ex machina moment.
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She doesn’t need to be invisible. She’s capable of duplicating the appearance of any humanoid.

As for how she got there, you’re questioning her transport arrangement in a show about Dragons, Undead, God’s, Giants and Worgs?

We don’t even know the time span between her leaving and her arriving.
 
Shamana said:
We also had this build up for seasons with the Night king eying Jon as his rival. They did have some engagement, but a duel in would be fitting with all that build up. Actually more duels with the White Walkers in general would have satisfying.
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Yeah definitely felt like a missed opportunity there, especially after they all showed up like Bruce Willis in Armageddon.
 
kouroux said:
The biggest characters should have had direct confrontations with 1 or 2 of them for sure. The part of Jon hiding from Viserion's fire only to wanna commit suicide is a bit weird for me.
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Yeah they had plenty of time to show more engagement of the Night king. Watching endless zombies attacking has it's charm too, but the White Walkers and the Night king were imo geniuenly captivating villains in even they were Black and White evil. The Night king was cool as feck though which why it would been nice seeing more confrontations with him.
 
Pexbo said:
She doesn’t need to be invisible. She’s capable of duplicating the appearance of any humanoid.

As for how she got there, you’re questioning her transport arrangement in a show about Dragons, Undead, God’s, Giants and Worgs?

We don’t even know the time span between her leaving and her arriving.
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Varys lent her his ring of teleportation.
 
KirkDuyt said:
How dare you?!

It is the first paragraph on Wikipedia thank you very much.
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I actually fecking knew I should have been that specific! :lol:

But I wasn't trying to be harsh on you or anyone on here. Interesting how it all took that turn though, very interesting.


BusbyMalone said:
But that's how it's always applied. When they're calling Arya a Mary Sue, you know what they mean. You seem to have a problem with how the term has been bastardised from its origin, and that's fine, but it's almost irrelevant to this discussion. That's all i'm saying. So when i (and others) say she isn't a Mary Sue, she isn't. Because i'm going by how it's used in the modern sense. The origin of it is almost irrelevant because that's not how it's applied.

You're having a different discussion really.
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I was originally saying even the modern take wasn't about how long they took to 'git gud', but the fact they purely are good. But hey, if you want to take whatever random modern meaning to words you want, then do it. But don't go around calling someone disingenuous just because you want to do that.

Sadly we would likely be on the same side of the actual debate, but meh, let's end it now. All the best dude.
 
Redlambs said:
I actually fecking knew I should have been that specific! :lol:

But I wasn't trying to be harsh on you or anyone on here. Interesting how it all took that turn though, very interesting.
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Don't worry about it dude, I don't feel hard done by, just yanking your chain is all.
 
Whoever told people about terms like "Mary Sue" and "Deus Ex Machina" has a lot to answer for.
 
Redlambs said:
I was originally saying even the modern take wasn't about how long they took to 'git gud', but the fact they purely are good. But hey, if you want to take whatever random modern meaning to words you want, then do it. But don't go around calling someone disingenuous just because you want to do that.

Sadly we would likely be on the same side of the actual debate, but meh, let's end it now. All the best dude.
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Random, modern meaning?? The hell. That's literally what it means and how people use it now! Haha. Christ. That took a sharp turn. Don't know why you got all uppity at the end there. Just having a discussion that's all.

All the best you you too. No hard feelings here.
 
Pexbo said:
She doesn’t need to be invisible. She’s capable of duplicating the appearance of any humanoid.

As for how she got there, you’re questioning her transport arrangement in a show about Dragons, Undead, God’s, Giants and Worgs?

We don’t even know the time span between her leaving and her arriving.
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Her ability of transformation doesn't help when the enemy are all dead though. We can only assume she somehow avoided all the waves of dead that were already in the castle and then ran past the guarding white walkers to get to the NK. It's pretty half arsed, just like with the Freys (although understandable).

I think people confuse the term Mary Sue with being over powered. Arya isn't a Mary Sue but she is over powered. That's fine. Daenerys and the Night King were overpowered too.
 
sullydnl said:
Whoever told people about terms like "Mary Sue" and "Deus Ex Machina" has a lot to answer for.
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There definitely were a few though. Jon was literally surrounded by hundreds of wights and he was still standing after cutting down a fair few, no chance of that happening if they come from all sides. Likewise for Dany, as soon as she fell of Drogon she should've been killed by the wights surrounding her, but in both instances you just knew they wouldn't die and someone would heroically come to the rescue.

I don't have a problem with that per se, but the great thing about GoT in the early seasons was that you couldn't predict who would live and who wouldn't so you were constantly on the edge of your seat.
 
For the guys claiming it was not plausible for Arya to get through all the Walkers etc, I don't think she needed to. I think she was hiding (perhaps in the tree?) and waiting before the crowd and NK came along, and timed her jump. It's worth noting fair bit of time went from when she escaped the room to that point.

When she was in plain sight that must have been when his generals looked to their side, and ultimately she was caught.

NK wasn't tricked in that sense, he saw her and caught her by the neck in time. He just underestimated her ability to still get something on him in that position.
 
Not enough footage of the NK in action we barely seen him use that sword, the white walker storey arc was pretty underwelhming tbh. Also I thought the dragon battles were pretty shite too.
 
BusbyMalone said:
Random, modern meaning?? The hell. That's literally what it means and how people use it now! Haha. Christ. That took a sharp turn. Don't know why you got all uppity at the end there. Just having a discussion that's all.

All the best you you too. No hard feelings here.
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I'm not uppity, you were the one to use big words you don't understand and since haven't apologised for that.

Of course I am joking dude!
 
evil_geko said:
It's a fecking trailer, not spoiler leaks, get a fecking grip you soft cnut.
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Your spoiler plus bad attitude don't seem to be working out well for you. I'm surprised your warning for a GOT spoiler in 2017 didn't give you a bit of a pointer.
 
Pexbo said:
She doesn’t need to be invisible. She’s capable of duplicating the appearance of any humanoid.

As for how she got there, you’re questioning her transport arrangement in a show about Dragons, Undead, God’s, Giants and Worgs?

We don’t even know the time span between her leaving and her arriving.
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Then they should have shown her taking on/off the Walker form (already disregarding the lore conflict with taking the face of someone or something already dead, who also shatters when killed).
As for how she got there, I'm questioning how she got through the hordes of dead monsters at all, when they show just minutes before how she, too, is in a losing battle with only a couple of them. All to arrive conveniently on time for the Night King to stand around for a moment like a fashion dummy and grin stupidly and let himself get stabbed.
 
Minimalist said:
Maybe should look over his last two books before assuming his version will any more enjoyable. Least the show cut out most of the pointless waffle Martin added in.
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I think I disagree on the part that his "side stories" are pointless waffle. I always felt even these stories did loads to enrich to overall world building of his books. Did it feel as if some of his characters where lost at times, yes, but I feel that this is how it should be sometimes. No one apart of characters in trope filled books will should ever be on a straight and narrow path to their destiny. Does it make it harder for GRRM to come to an end within the planned two books, probably, does it mean it makes the books bad, I don't think it does, the richness of his world, the 100s of characters and side characters where always something that I really liked about his books.
 
VP89 said:
For the guys claiming it was not plausible for Arya to get through all the Walkers etc, I don't think she needed to. I think she was hiding (perhaps in the tree?) and waiting before the crowd and NK came along, and timed her jump. It's worth noting fair bit of time went from when she escaped the room to that point.

When she was in plain sight that must have been when his generals looked to their side, and ultimately she was caught.

NK wasn't tricked in that sense, he saw her and caught her by the neck in time. He just underestimated her ability to still get something on him in that position.
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Good point.

The super silent sneaking in the library was a pretty obvious hint that she’s good at getting from a to b without being noticed too.
 
Haven't you people seen Shaun of the Dead? Arya obviously shuffled through the hordes of walkers twisting and growling weirdly to blend in.
 
RedSky said:
Her ability of transformation doesn't help when the enemy are all dead though. We can only assume she somehow avoided all the waves of dead that were already in the castle and then ran past the guarding white walkers to get to the NK. It's pretty half arsed, just like with the Freys (although understandable).

I think people confuse the term Mary Sue with being over powered. Arya isn't a Mary Sue but she is over powered. That's fine. Daenerys and the Night King were overpowered too.
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Any reference for that?

Seems counter intuitive considering we saw Jaqen processing a dead body to harvest it’s face.
 
Pexbo said:
Any reference for that?

Seems counter intuitive considering we saw Jaqen processing a dead body to harvest it’s face.
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Been a long time since I watched those scenes but I don't think he transformed into an undead person. yes the people's who faces Arya have are dead, but that doesn't make her dead (maybe it does?).
 
Has anyone answered the question/come up with a reason for why Jon was on the dragon in the first place? We've seen the dragons set people on fire/follow orders independently before right?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Good point.

The super silent sneaking in the library was a pretty obvious hint that she’s good at getting from a to b without being noticed too.
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If she hid in the tree (possible) then the editing/directing is terrible because it implies she came past the white walkers and they were like 50 yards away from the tree. So if we take the editing at face value... She's in the tree, jumps down to behind the white walkers then runs past them and jumps at the NK who is 50 yards away from the White Walkers.

They have a zoomed out view of that area a few times during the Theon/Arya scenes so we actually have a decent idea of the surroundings.

Also her jump is shown to be a long horizontal jump rather than a jump above. So it's not like an aerial takedown attempt.
 
I thought it was just me who was struggling with the darkness! I had to switch rooms and try another TV.

In terms of the actual show, it was a good watch. But I did not feel any tension or drama in any of it.

I did love the music though.
 
RedSky said:
Been a long time since I watched those scenes but I don't think he transformed into an undead person. yes the people's who faces Arya have are dead, but that doesn't make her dead (maybe it does?).
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I think the question is more why do you think she can't do it to the undead.


Annihilate Now! said:
Has anyone answered the question/come up with a reason for why Jon was on the dragon in the first place? We've seen the dragons set people on fire/follow orders independently before right?
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You mean flying the dragon? It's a major point of the series, he can because he's a Targ.
 
RedSky said:
If she hid in the tree (possible) then the editing/directing is terrible because it implies she came past the white walkers and they were like 50 yards away from the tree. So if we take the editing at face value... She's in the tree, jumps down to behind the white walkers then runs past them and jumps at the NK who is 50 yards away from the White Walkers.

They have a zoomed out view of that area a few times during the Theon/Arya scenes so we actually have a decent idea of the surroundings.
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Not necessarily in the tree. Just somewhere near Bran. And it wasn’t clear where, exactly, the WW were standing by the time the NK reached Bran.
 
Ugh, that fecking r/asoiaf sub. A thread on Kit Harrington being "pissed off" (he was clearly joking) in the behind the scenes video about not getting to kill the Night King leads to comments like...

"Apparently every character's sole purpose is to make Arya look more badass by comparison"

"Yasssss queen slayyyyy. She is fierce. So fecking disappointing. I ate a bunch of hotdogs after to comfort myself AND I FELT WORSE."

"The fact that she killed the Night King, and in such a nonsensical way is bad enough. But now we have to see thousands of people who probably haven’t watched anything before season 6 on twitter yell “omg arya so badass yas queen slay” it’s just rubbing salt in the wound at this point."

"The show has been, and it is, a giant, fuming pile of shit. This aberration is nothing but a crowd-pleasing, meme-generating, fan-servicing, dumbed down version fo something once connected with ASIOF. It isn't even worth talking about ti anymore."

"Oh don't get it twisted, they took Arya out back with them. Arya is supposed to be an irredeemably broken child, after being brutalised and tortured at a very young age and having seen her father executed and all of the worst rape and murder mankind has to offer, her storyline should end pitifully and desperately unhappily - a harrowing tale of the ruination of an innocent child."

"Instead we get YASSSS QUEEN SLAYYYY, killing the night king, banging Gendry, fighting like she's straight out of a kung fu movie and more travesties."

All upvoted.

RAWK for neckbeards.
 
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