I'm not sure that's really the case though. When she arrives home she's still incredibly emotional about it and cares for her family. Indeed the fact she's spared a lot of people shows she's only really vengeful when the writers want her to come across as being quite badass. Which feels almost problematic from a storytelling POV because we're meant to see all her murders as cool as opposed to traumatic. Which in-turn undermines the character they built up in earlier seasons. After the Red Wedding she kills someone gloating about it and it's supposed to be a fairly tragic scene with a broken young girl who's traumatised lashes out in an act of revenge. If she did that now in the show she'd throw a quip out at the guy and walk away smirking from it.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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I'm not sure that's really the case though. When she arrives home she's still incredibly emotional about it and cares for her family. Indeed the fact she's spared a lot of people shows she's only really vengeful when the writers want her to come across as being quite badass. Which feels almost problematic from a storytelling POV because we're meant to see all her murders as cool as opposed to traumatic. Which in-turn undermines the character they built up in earlier seasons. After the Red Wedding she kills someone gloating about it and it's supposed to be a fairly tragic scene with a broken young girl who's traumatised lashes out in an act of revenge. If she did that now in the show she'd throw a quip out at the guy and walk away smirking from it.
My point is, if they are told to stop by the Night King, does that mean they literally turn into statues? We've never seen that happen in the entire 8 seasons of GoT. Nobody has sneaked past or even seen statue deads. The closest I can think of is when he raises them at Hardhome and they all stand watching as Jon rows off. If we think that it's as simple as the Night King flicking a switch from on to off then surely the other white walkers would know this and be a bit more alert? I'd need to rewatch the scene again, but as they walked into Winterfell i'm sure there were like a dozen of them, not sure how many went to Bran though.
On reflection, what you’ve done is just not on. It’s completely unfair to all the users who have avoided the avengers thread because they’ve yet to see the movie and weren’t expecting to have a spoiler for that movie in a thread about a different show. So yeah you brought the abuse on yourself and you can now jog on
She literally completed her training. "A girl is no-one now" was the last line from the head Faceless Man dude, whatever his real name is. They have spent a huge amount of time developing her prowess and showing her progression of skills on screen, which wasn't just stick beatings. People were moaning at how long we spent watching Arya be trained. Did you need 5 hours of training montages? You may consider the idea of magic super ninjas stupid, which is fair enough, but it isn't inconsistent with her character arc nor is it not set up that she had these sort of powers.
A visual spectacle and an extremely impressive episode in that sense. The opening 15/20 minutes were incredible. Reminded me so much of the Winds of Winter episode (same director i think) with the tension that they built. Incredible stuff.
However.
To me personally that was very anticlimactic. I love the Night King. Love the mystique surrounding him, his design, his badassery (if that’s a word) and for him to go out like that? Nah. What a fecking let down. The thing is, i’m not even sure what outcome i wanted. But it wasn’t that. Not like this.
Also, there’s just no sense of peril there anymore. Not once did i ever think that Jon or Dany were going to die despite being fecking surrounded by a horde of the undead at times, only for them to be saved at the last moment. Same goes for Breinne, Sam, Jamie etc, etc. Pulling off this stunt once? Fine. Twice? Ok. But to do it multiple times just completely cheapens it. The plot armour for these main characters has obviously been there since last season, but without that peril there is a distinct lack of tension.
That’s the thing with creating such a juggernaut of a TV show. Absolutely impossible to please everyone. Still like the show, but…yeah. Just thought it could’ve been so much more.
Anyway, i’m team Cersei all the fecking way.
However.
To me personally that was very anticlimactic. I love the Night King. Love the mystique surrounding him, his design, his badassery (if that’s a word) and for him to go out like that? Nah. What a fecking let down. The thing is, i’m not even sure what outcome i wanted. But it wasn’t that. Not like this.
Also, there’s just no sense of peril there anymore. Not once did i ever think that Jon or Dany were going to die despite being fecking surrounded by a horde of the undead at times, only for them to be saved at the last moment. Same goes for Breinne, Sam, Jamie etc, etc. Pulling off this stunt once? Fine. Twice? Ok. But to do it multiple times just completely cheapens it. The plot armour for these main characters has obviously been there since last season, but without that peril there is a distinct lack of tension.
That’s the thing with creating such a juggernaut of a TV show. Absolutely impossible to please everyone. Still like the show, but…yeah. Just thought it could’ve been so much more.
Anyway, i’m team Cersei all the fecking way.
I have an 82' 4K TV that is calibrated and I could barely see half of the scenes. I feel bad for folks with smaller tv's, I dont know how they could make out anything that was going on.
Great episode but could have been better lit.
Well in episode one, did she not order Bronn to go and kill both Jamie & Tyrion.
I’m sure he does support the north, otherwise why would he have traveled up to Winterfell to help them fight the dead? Again, you just never know as he might be up to something that no one knows about.
Great episode, one of the best, but the darkness stopped me from enjoying it properly, I couldn't make out what was happening half the time, I don't know how the creators weren't aware of this, what's the fun in squinting to make out what's going on? I know they needed to save Money, but they could have done it in other ways. I would have loved it they had shown a bit more of Arya before making her move. Arya killing him was satifisfying in one way, but wouldn't have minded Jon duelling him or something. Brann seems kind of pointless and him being guarded by a eunuch Theon and a few ironmen seems kind of silly given that the Night king was coming for him. It would have been cool to have gone deeper in Brann and the Night Kings relationship other than the Night king wanting to kill him. I thought Brann would have some sort of power to influence the battle, but he had nothing whatsoever.
I guess the White Walkers had to be defeated in the episode since there would be no other chance of Victory if they didn't, but them being defeated in the first major battle was a bit meh after having them built up for 8 seasons. Wouldn't been cool with some sort of dialoge from the Night king as well.
I guess the White Walkers had to be defeated in the episode since there would be no other chance of Victory if they didn't, but them being defeated in the first major battle was a bit meh after having them built up for 8 seasons. Wouldn't been cool with some sort of dialoge from the Night king as well.
Bound to be some comeback for jon just walking past sam when he was on deaths door as well, but then survived. They made eye contact
Wasn't the point that they want to destroy the 3-eyed Raven?
good call
posting a fecking major spoiler of the biggest movie of the year barely a few days after its released in a compeltely different thread. idiocy doesnt begin to describe it.
That's my opinion of it. They were never going to have the army of the dead actually win the battle (although that would be quite cool and a ballsy move) so it was always, always going to end in victory for the humans, but it did feel very anticlimactic. I really like Arya, but even the way the Night Kind went out was just...underwhelming. I don't know. The thing is, i don't even know what i wanted from it really. Perhaps when i sit on it a bit and maybe watch it again i'll appreciate it even more.
Yeah, I think i'm siding with Cersei now. I'm starting to think the show has balked at the idea of killing off major characters, if they aren't dying against waves of the undead that vastly outnumber them then they aren't going to die against Cersei's army. As someone else said, they all have strong plot armour. That's what was so good about Georges writing, none had plot armour and he wasn't afraid of killing characters despite their stories not being finished.
Do you guys think Theon is dead btw? I am not convinced.
He's dead.
He dead
Wonder if it will end up in a "feck this shit I'm out" moment.
It needed more deaths for that emotional impact. Brienne, Pod, Sam, Grey Worm, Jaime, and The Hound should have all died. I enjoyed it, but that ending came out of seemingly nowhere. They could have had the Hound distract the dead in the Godswood, thus he sacrifices himself so Arya can sneak up on the NK.
Yes.
He's dead.
With Theon gone - there's now no male heir to the following houses
Stark
Greyjoy (well apart from Euron)
Tyrell
And who else? That's a lot of powerful houses who won't exist anymore
Stark
Greyjoy (well apart from Euron)
Tyrell
And who else? That's a lot of powerful houses who won't exist anymore
He could died in a prolonged duel or battle or something. Arya just stealth killing him out of nowwhere is course bad ass in a way, but it just happened to quickly and suddenly. Of course since being toasted by actual dragonfire didn't hurt him I was a bit miffed about what would. Makes no sense that valerian steel would and not dragonfire. I dunno. Would really have loved more backstory or depth to the Night king. Seems a bit weird that the great war that was thousands of years coming ending like that.
And WHO was Azor Ahai then? I guess it could be both Dany and Jon since without them there wouldn't be an alliance to fight the Walkers.
House Mormont has also become extinct.
Brann is still the rightful heir to Winterfell. I guess you could say he's not really brann anymore though. Robb made Jon his heir as king in the North, but he's not technically a stark, although he is actually as Lyannas son.
Thought it was going to be Jaime, thus turning ‘Kingslayer’ into a compliment. Although, on that note...
there is still a Queen to slay...
My seven year old makes mistakes, like forgetting to flush the toilet. Unless you're seven and left a big turd sticking to the pan then there's a big difference.
Edit: I'm arguing with a banned person. I might as well go back to shouting at the seagulls outside.
You could and I believe you would be missing the point. When I say 'idea' I mean what he represents beyond his physical being. Winter is coming was sold as more than a cold guy at your door. I read it as a personification of death, or the manifestation of natural forces in the event of human folly. I see the story as part of (and subversion of) the Gilgamesh, Beowulf, Gawain and the Green Knight tradition - or even something like The 7th seal. I don't think I'm being too twatty to try and dig out a little theme and symbolism from my fantasy stories. Dropping a character is one thing, dropping what I read as an overarching theme is quite another.
And also the true king. So he will unite the 7 kingdoms
Jon is a Targaeryan though. He won't carry the Stark name nor would his children - if he rightfully claims the Iron Throne.
I think Brann's given that up to take up a life as the 3eyed raven.
Can bran see into the future? I always thought he could... 3 eyed raven past present future... but im seeing conflicting arguements?
He did give arya the dagger....
He did give arya the dagger....
For a guy who can see everything Bran kinda did feck all, poor performance.
The inside of the episode with DnD on Youtube explains a lot of the thinking of how things played out and specifically why Arya was the one to kill the Knight King.
Yeah i was all a little bit of a let down, which sounds crazy to say because i actually really liked the episode in the main. In terms of pure spectacle it was one of the best things I've seen committed to film. As i said in my post, that's the perils of creating such a juggernaut of a TV show. People (like myself) will never be pleased i suppose. I also hold two contradictory opinions: i love the fact that it was Arya that killed him, while simultaneously hating that she killed him. Or, more appropriately, HOW she killed him.
In terms of the valerian steel and dragonfire, i actually said last night that i thought Jon would fight the Night King and use his valerian steel sword only to find out that it doesn't work. That would've been cool. Perhaps the Night King then takes Jon out. Was never gonna happen, of course.
What was the spoiler? Pm meI will be watching end game in another 4 hours, that posted messed it for me
I wanted more from the Night King, but I also wanted more from those characters I mentioned. What the show has done, just like it books, is subvert those expectations on who we think is the main focus. The army of the dead was never the focus, it was a cause and effect to the real focal point which is the Iron Throne. By fighting the army of the dead Danny's army is now heavily depleted and sets up a more even battle against Cersei. It's both narratively contrived and satisfying at the same time. To be honest, after the shit show that was Season 7 I'm taking what I can get and just thankful that we no longer have teleporting stealth boats and pointless school trips beyond the wall to worry about.
If you look closely in the next promo, looks like Ghost survived.
I agree that there's some poor writing in there but I think there was always going to be some disappointment with how they handled the WW's.
I'm guessing the Dothraki charged in because they were on an open field and it made sense to try and play towards their strength, but they didn't use Winterfell very well from a defensive point of view.
Neither did the Bolton's actually. You've got a big castle with large walls and yet you're going on the offensive and positioning most of your forces outside the walls?
I'm guessing the Dothraki charged in because they were on an open field and it made sense to try and play towards their strength, but they didn't use Winterfell very well from a defensive point of view.
Neither did the Bolton's actually. You've got a big castle with large walls and yet you're going on the offensive and positioning most of your forces outside the walls?