Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Andersons Dietician said:
The Wildings had boats? The ones shown at Hardhome were borrowed from Stanis I thought, actually pretty sure of it. Not sure the Wildlings had boat access or the ability to build them. That’s what I was going off of.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they have the ability to build boats? Are there no trees north of the wall? ...aside from the massive fecking forest that is shown time and time again.

It's a wall anyway. Anything that floats would get them around it. Or swimming for a bit. Or just grappling round the outside of it.

The idea that the best way past it is to attack the really strong bit where all the people defending it are is the dumbest thing about the whole series.
 


DyzqU5iWsAAyWD6.jpg


Sam has finally seen the real wall.
 
noodlehair said:
Why wouldn't they have the ability to build boats? Are there no trees north of the wall? ...aside from the massive fecking forest that is shown time and time again.

It's a wall anyway. Anything that floats would get them around it. Or swimming for a bit. Or just grappling round the outside of it.

The idea that the best way past it is to attack the really strong bit where all the people defending it are is the dumbest thing about the whole series.
Click to expand...
Do you know how to build a boat? Let alone one to hold hundreds of people and the average survival time in the North Sea is 30 mins to an hour,(in real life) so I’d wager swimming wouldn’t be an option for a wildling and who says they can swim? I don’t imagine they have many pools or can go for trips to the beach without freezing to death.

Frontal assault was probably the only option for that many people and until Stanis showed up Jon was saying he thinks they are fecked as they don’t have enough men to defend the wall.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Do you know how to build a boat? Let alone one to hold hundreds of people and the average survival time in the North Sea is 30 mins to an hour,(in real life) so I’d wager swimming wouldn’t be an option for a wildling and who says they can swim? I don’t imagine they have many pools or can go for trips to the beach without freezing to death.

Frontal assault was probably the only option for that many people and until Stanis showed up Jon was saying he thinks they are fecked as they don’t have enough men to defend the wall.
Click to expand...

I've built boats in 4 different counties in Ireland.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Do you know how to build a boat? Let alone one to hold hundreds of people and the average survival time in the North Sea is 30 mins to an hour,(in real life) so I’d wager swimming wouldn’t be an option for a wildling and who says they can swim? I don’t imagine they have many pools or can go for trips to the beach without freezing to death.

Frontal assault was probably the only option for that many people and until Stanis showed up Jon was saying he thinks they are fecked as they don’t have enough men to defend the wall.
Click to expand...

This, basically. To transport lots of troops you would need ships, which are not easy to construct and since I'm guessing none of the Wildling factions have any naval experience, there's no reason to think they would have the skill to build long distance transport ships. Hardhome didn't look like it had any docks, just a few small fishing boats, so they clearly don't have the capacity to build a navy.

I think the Wildling plan was relatively solid. Distract the Watch with pretty much your entire force, and meanwhile the 'elite team' which got round the back can hit them unexpectedly. They took heavy casualties and it's pretty obvious that another attack like it and they'd collapse, so it's not as if the plan was failing .. in comparison to the size of their force the wildlings lost very few men. Didn't Mance say he had hundreds more climbing other stretches of the wall?

Then there is the plot armour because let's be fecking honest, that giant should get through those 3 soldiers and win the battle.
 
noodlehair said:
Why wouldn't they have the ability to build boats? Are there no trees north of the wall? ...aside from the massive fecking forest that is shown time and time again.

It's a wall anyway. Anything that floats would get them around it. Or swimming for a bit. Or just grappling round the outside of it.

The idea that the best way past it is to attack the really strong bit where all the people defending it are is the dumbest thing about the whole series.
Click to expand...


The bit where all the people are defending it is also the bit with the big gates which you can actually enter through. Just like in real sieges, it's the most vulnerable part of the wall so an attack would be concentrated there, makes perfect sense.

The dumbest thing about the whole series is the fact the Greyjoys somehow just magic up a fleet of like 1000 ships in the blink of an eye. Despite being portrayed as very poor, having one of the lowest populations out of any of the houses, and living on an island which is mostly rocks and bird shit.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Do you know how to build a boat? Let alone one to hold hundreds of people and the average survival time in the North Sea is 30 mins to an hour,(in real life) so I’d wager swimming wouldn’t be an option for a wildling and who says they can swim? I don’t imagine they have many pools or can go for trips to the beach without freezing to death.

Frontal assault was probably the only option for that many people and until Stanis showed up Jon was saying he thinks they are fecked as they don’t have enough men to defend the wall.
Click to expand...

If I had a forest and an army of people at my disposal I reckon I could build a boat or two. Boats are things that people build, so it is reasonable to expect that an army of people might be able to build some, in a TV series where other armies of people frequently build and sail around in boats. Including a bunch of people stuck on an island with little or no resources to build boats with.

I reckon building a boat would be easier than attacking a 200ft high wall guarded by an army of people with weapons. The idea it would not be easier was thrown out of the window by Stanis just doing it with no bother at all.
 
Last edited:
SquishyMcSquish said:
The bit where all the people are defending it is also the bit with the big gates which you can actually enter through. Just like in real sieges, it's the most vulnerable part of the wall so an attack would be concentrated there, makes perfect sense.

The dumbest thing about the whole series is the fact the Greyjoys somehow just magic up a fleet of like 1000 ships in the blink of an eye. Despite being portrayed as very poor, having one of the lowest populations out of any of the houses, and living on an island which is mostly rocks and bird shit.
Click to expand...

I don't think it real life there are many examples of sieges where the thing under siege is massive 100 mile long wall which you can just easily go around the outside of. Castles are put under siege, and the big gate is where the attack is concentrated is attacked because it is the most vulnerable part of a castle. The most vulnerable part of a wall you can go around the outside of, isn't the bit in the middle where all the people who want to kill you if you try to get past it are hanging about.
 
If the white walkers can't swim, why didn't Dany just take the Winterfell crew to Essos or somewhere far away?
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
The dumbest thing about the whole series is the fact the Greyjoys somehow just magic up a fleet of like 1000 ships in the blink of an eye. Despite being portrayed as very poor, having one of the lowest populations out of any of the houses, and living on an island which is mostly rocks and bird shit
Click to expand...
Yes this bugs me as well but I’ve signed it off with the magical time hopping in that it was probably done over quite a few months but even then I’d imagine building a 1000 ships for experienced ship builders in even the space of a few months would probably be impossible. I’m going to imagine what’s his face already had his super Death Star ship just kicking about and that isn’t a new build.
 
noodlehair said:
If I had a forest and an army of people at my disposal I reckon I could build a boat or two. Boats are things that people build, so it is reasonable to expect that an army of people might be able to build some, in a TV series where other armies of people frequently build and sail around in boats. Including a bunch of people stuck on an island with little or no resources to build boats with.

I reckon building a boat would be easier than attacking a 200ft high wall guarded by an army of people with weapons. The idea it would not be easier was thrown out of the window by Stanis just doing it with no bother at all.
Click to expand...


Yeah but this was bullshit. The show became nonsensical in the final season, building ships is really not an easy task. It's very expensive and requires a ton of skill to build sea worthy vessels capable of safely transporting hundreds of troops across open water. I don't know the distance you'd have to go to sail around the wall but I'm guessing it's not just a shallow stretch of water. Stannis had a fleet from the start of the show, the Baratheon fleet is one of the most powerful in Westeros. He didn't just quickly construct one to get across to the other side of the wall.

The wildlings have no skills related to shipbuilding, they're portrayed in the show as being barely organised tribal societies. These kind of societies historically were capable only of building very short distance boats, it makes sense that they wouldn't possess the knowledge to build proper ships, these people live in tents in the show .. even for feudal medieval societies who had castles a ship was a very expensive, very difficult thing to construct. It's not a case of a couple of simple boats, you'd need ships capable of transporting hundreds of men across open ocean.

I also think it has to be considered that they don't know if the Nights Watch possess any sea worthy vessels, in which case they'd be totally screwed as anything they could build would be of higher quality and easily able to sink crudely constructed ships. I just think in general the Wildlings know they have zero strength at sea and would be incredibly vulnerable, whereas they have a colossal land army, makes sense to focus on a land assault.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Yes this bugs me as well but I’ve signed it off with the magical time hopping in that it was probably done over quite a few months but even then I’d imagine building a 1000 ships for experienced ship builders in even the space of a few months would probably be impossible. I’m going to imagine what’s his face already had his super Death Star ship just kicking about and that isn’t a new build.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, completely and utterly impossible. Building even 100 seaworthy vessels would take years and tremendous amounts of money, medieval kingdoms like England and France spent unbelievable amounts of money in order to maintain even hundreds of ships. To give an example, the Battle of Sluys (a naval engagement between France & England) probably featured about 150 ships on either side.

The idea that the Greyjoys (a small collection of rocks) could even man a fleet of 1,000 ships (you'd be talking tens of thousands of men) is dumb. It's a show at the end of the day though so I can wave it off, at the end of the day they needed to restore a bit of the power balance and Euron as the moustache twirling villain with his one billion ships suits the bill. It's just a tad disappointing though, since the early seasons were very good in terms of realistic political intrigue/military strategy and tactics.

Almost as stupid is how easily the Lannisters storm the Tyrell castle. Even if that castle had only a couple of hundred defenders they could hold it for months, it's weird because they make it very clear at earlier points in the show how hard storming a castle is, and then just go back on that and have one of the biggest castles in Westeros taken in a frontal assault with total ease. In reality Jaime's plan would fail horribly because his army would turn up and the defenders would go 'Oh, you appear to have no catapults or heavy siege equipment, so we'll just sit tight here' and then reinforcements would arrive to trap him.

But hey again .. it's a show and they needed a way to restore balance between Daenerys/Cersei. All very clumsily handled though, IMHO.
 
:lol: jon snow is such a dumbass. he goes through all this effort and takes all these losses to bring the dead guy to kings landing because "nothing is more important than the war between the living and the dead" and then screws it up by not agreeing to stay neutral to cersei. defeating the white walkers is the most important thing, except if jon snow has to lie to cersei. then its the second most important thing.
 
The plan was stupid regardless, Tyrion should know Cersei is utterly untrustworthy and basically insane.

It should've just gone along the lines of:

'Hey, I want to capture a white walker so we can show Cersei this is all real'.

'That won't work. Cersei is a power hungry tyrant, there's no way we could ever trust her word because all she cares about is being Queen, she'll totally just let us and the white walkers battle it out while she does her thing in the South'.

'Ah ok thanks Tyrion, you'd know her best being her brother and all, thank god we have someone who knows Cersei on the team!'

But yeah, Jon is stupid. That doesn't bother me so much though because I genuinely think he's just not meant to be a very bright character, whereas Tyrion is meant to be super duper smart and great at reading people.
 
Bloody hell people. It is tits and dragons. And you lot are debating the logistics of boat building? THAT is the unbelievable bit?
 
Yeah, especially when a man and 8 good men crippled a whole strong army without being seen.
 
Wibble said:
Bloody hell people. It is tits and dragons. And you lot are debating the logistics of boat building? THAT is the unbelievable bit?
Click to expand...

:D Look, the logistics of boat building is very important stuff.

The problem is with this logic though, is that dragons, magic etc are all part of the universe. We know that, it's a fictional world .. but a fictional world which (in the early seasons) the kingdoms operated pretty similarly to their real life counterparts, and I think that made for a better quality show. It's ok having silly fictional elements because they're part of the fiction, but when you establish rules and then break them willy nilly in order to advance the plot it just seems a little rushed and silly.

It doesn't ruin the show or anything, I just do think the earlier seasons were of a higher quality partly because they were more consistent with this stuff, whereas the later ones have become more illogical and inconsistent. I can still enjoy the episodes now though, just in a different way.
 
Up to Season 5 now will easily finish this in time.

It's actually fantastic watching it all a second time. I've picked up loads of things I either didn't notice or understand the first time around.
 


Its a nice youtube channel to learn about historical battles but they're also covering fictional battles now.
 
Jon Snow knows nothing, this is well established. Tyrion is definitely going to stab Danaerys in the back when she threatenss to wipe out house Lannister.
 
Just finished season 6 of my rewatch, only one to go.

Amazing series, but it’s time to end it.
I hope the final season will be epic.
 
shahzadi said:
No official trailer yet ?
Click to expand...

They shouldnt put one out. They should just do what theyve been doing, teasers and such.
Last season spoilt too much with the way people were able to predict timelines and what was going to happen
 
Sylar said:
They shouldnt put one out. They should just do what theyve been doing, teasers and such.
Last season spoilt too much with the way people were able to predict timelines and what was going to happen
Click to expand...
I don't think the trailer gave too much away last season?

It was the script leaks that were the problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.